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What's the deal with Morgan Ellis?

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Old
09-19-2013, 10:22 PM
  #26
x74Pacioretty74x
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
Spit out my drink laughing. Thanks!

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Old
09-19-2013, 10:31 PM
  #27
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Wisniewski was once seen as someone with only a good shot too. He has the big shot, they could work with that.
Wisniewski was never seen in such a way.

He was an absolute offensive whiz in junior which culminated in his final season where he was the top offensive player on his team and was named the OHL and CHL defenceman of the year.

He has always been an offensive dman who takes risks and pushes the play up the ice. It would be difficult to find a worse comparison for Morgan Ellis as they are very different players. Wisniewski dropped in his draft year because he was undersized and only an average skater but nobody doubted his offensive acumen.

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09-19-2013, 10:34 PM
  #28
Mrb1p
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Wisniewski was never seen in such a way.

He was an absolute offensive whiz in junior which culminated in his final season where he was the top offensive player on his team and was named the OHL and CHL defenceman of the year.

He has always been an offensive dman who takes risks and pushes the play up the ice. It would be difficult to find a worse comparison for Morgan Ellis as they are very different players. Wisniewski dropped in his draft year because he was undersized and only an average skater but nobody doubted his offensive acumen.
When he came in the NHL, he wasn't viewed as someone who would run a PP.

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Old
09-19-2013, 10:42 PM
  #29
Chris Cutter
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Hopefully Ellis can become a Marc Methot for us.

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09-19-2013, 10:43 PM
  #30
MXD
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Ellis doesn't have the vision or the flair to have an offensive game translating in the NHL, unless he somehow pulls a Souray at some point.

Ellis is pretty much a guy who screamed "Josh Gorges with a shot" in the juniors.

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Old
09-19-2013, 10:50 PM
  #31
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
When he came in the NHL, he wasn't viewed as someone who would run a PP.
He absolutely was but like most young offensive dmen he had to earn the opportunity. He wasn't brought in to immediatelyt run the power play but he was certainly expected to develop into a first unit PP option. With players such as Keith, Seabrook, Aucoin, Spacek and Babchuk who all had pp abilities there certainly wasn't any rush to force him into anything even though he scored at almost as good a rate as any of them as a rookie.

His biggest obstacle was his skating which wasn't terrible but needed to improve to offset his lack of size.

Much as skilled players like Beaulieu and Galchenyuk are expected to become stalwarts on the PP, they were used sparingly in this capacity last season. This certainly doesn't reflect a lack of confidence from the organization in their respective offensive abilities.

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Old
09-19-2013, 11:54 PM
  #32
HankyZetts
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Originally Posted by habs03 View Post
Like he had big shoulders lol
Haha I was just messing with you man! He is a big boy, and he plays like it too.
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Actually he would be an average sized NFL linebacker...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...NFL_linebacker



CFL they are smaller...Emelin or Drewiske sized...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...CFL_linebacker
Ah lol thanks! I don't do CFL, and I've narely seen a linebacker less than 245-250 and these guys have like no body fat. Dougy would look weak beside one of em is all I meant and he's our biggest by far!

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:24 AM
  #33
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by HankyZetts View Post
Haha I was just messing with you man! He is a big boy, and he plays like it too.

Ah lol thanks! I don't do CFL, and I've narely seen a linebacker less than 245-250 and these guys have like no body fat. Dougy would look weak beside one of em is all I meant and he's our biggest by far!
There are many linebackers in the NFL that are smaller than this. The average is 247lbs so close to half of them are probably smaller than 245-250.

Murray would be on the light side of the scale but he would be one of the tallest linebackers around.

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Old
09-20-2013, 01:02 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Dietz is a much better skater, a much better puck handler, a much better everything.
That's your opinion, but even as a pretty strong Dietz supporter from day one I don't share it.

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Old
09-20-2013, 01:24 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
That's your opinion, but even as a pretty strong Dietz supporter from day one I don't share it.
Ellis is bigger and stronger and as a junior was more sound in his own zone. It will be interesting to see how Dietz compares to Morgan defensively in his first pro season. While it is true that Dietz is a better skater than Ellis it definitely isn't a strength at this point in his development.

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09-20-2013, 03:52 AM
  #36
Mrb1p
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
That's your opinion, but even as a pretty strong Dietz supporter from day one I don't share it.
I love Ellis, and I found myself having a bit too much expecation for him at the end of the memorial cup... Labelling him as our third best defensive prospect, and not so far away from Tinordi.

But since last year, Dietz really got me going. He's big, he's strong, he's fast, he's agile, he's smart with the puck, he plays with an edge... He pretty much as all the qualities you want in a top 4 dman. Ellis doesn't quite have that, he's surely a lot more solid defensively though, the guys is a rock right there.

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Old
09-20-2013, 04:49 AM
  #37
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
I love Ellis, and I found myself having a bit too much expecation for him at the end of the memorial cup... Labelling him as our third best defensive prospect, and not so far away from Tinordi.

But since last year, Dietz really got me going. He's big, he's strong, he's fast, he's agile, he's smart with the puck, he plays with an edge... He pretty much as all the qualities you want in a top 4 dman. Ellis doesn't quite have that, he's surely a lot more solid defensively though, the guys is a rock right there.
You seem to be relying too heavily on offensive stats to form your opinion on players. Dietz has decent size but is not necessarily big for a dman and he is absolutely not a fast skater. His skating isn't terrible and is probably closer to adequate but it is an area in need of some improvement.

It is very common for people to get excited about prospects that are putting up big numbers in junior but it is important to remember that almost all of them were drafted with warts of some kind or another and the numbers can hide the most stubborn ones.

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Old
09-20-2013, 06:04 AM
  #38
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Like Ellis too. Possible that he could never bring his level of play in the highest league but for that, we would have to see it. Don't get why he didn't play at least one game.

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Old
09-20-2013, 06:05 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Like Ellis too. Possible that he could never bring his level of play in the highest league but for that, we would have to see it. Don't get why he didn't play at least one game.
Same.

Then again, I never understood why Avtsin never got at least a pre-season game either.

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Old
09-20-2013, 07:45 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
How about

Emelin - Subban
Beaulieu - Tinordi
Gorges - Pateryn
I also like Pateryn.

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Old
09-20-2013, 08:03 AM
  #41
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He's still young and raw. He really could be a steady 5th-6th Dman for us in 4-5 years. The best thing for him will be to have some quality competition down there compared to last year where it was a ''who sucked less'' championship. He'll need to get out of his confort zone and get the coaching staff's confidence.

What I mean by that is that if he wants to be an AHLer for his whole life, his game will stay the same and with maturity/strenght it will get easier. If he wants to be an NHLer, he'll need to be able to make the plays in his own zone. Feet agility and puck control are required to play in the NHL and beat the often 1 guy pressure. Constantly rimming the puck along the boards isn't accepted. Heck, look how Tinordi is constantly moving his feet with the puck. That alone is a big improvement for him.

Like I said, most systems in the NHL have a 1-2-2 pressure so if you can't beat the one guy in pressure AND make a tape to tape pass to an open man, good luck staying up there...

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Old
09-20-2013, 01:44 PM
  #42
Mrb1p
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You seem to be relying too heavily on offensive stats to form your opinion on players. Dietz has decent size but is not necessarily big for a dman and he is absolutely not a fast skater. His skating isn't terrible and is probably closer to adequate but it is an area in need of some improvement.

It is very common for people to get excited about prospects that are putting up big numbers in junior but it is important to remember that almost all of them were drafted with warts of some kind or another and the numbers can hide the most stubborn ones.
6'1 Isn't big ? Is he some kind of smurf and I don't know ? 6'1 at 20 is big enough, when you consider our roster.
Can we consider is skating a weakness ? Absolutely not, thus he's a pretty good skater. I never claimed he was Subban here, were comparing him to Morgan freaking Elllis. What gets me going is that Dietz was a shy Dman who didn't take risk in his draft year, he joined the rush sometimes and made good outlet passes, but now his game has matured and he seem to control the play a lot more.

Anyway, his main weakness, when he was drafted was that he was a long shot and that he had no real standout skills, now we've seen one stand out skill and its the ability to control the play. He got a good rise in my personal ranking. Not many weakness on that kid.

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Old
09-20-2013, 02:57 PM
  #43
Estimated_Prophet
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
6'1 Isn't big ? Is he some kind of smurf and I don't know ? 6'1 at 20 is big enough, when you consider our roster.
Can we consider is skating a weakness ? Absolutely not, thus he's a pretty good skater. I never claimed he was Subban here, were comparing him to Morgan freaking Elllis. What gets me going is that Dietz was a shy Dman who didn't take risk in his draft year, he joined the rush sometimes and made good outlet passes, but now his game has matured and he seem to control the play a lot more.

Anyway, his main weakness, when he was drafted was that he was a long shot and that he had no real standout skills, now we've seen one stand out skill and its the ability to control the play. He got a good rise in my personal ranking. Not many weakness on that kid.
You are basing your opinions purely on stats. You are painting a picture that doesn't reflect the way he plays at all but rather the way that you believe a player with his stats would perform.

His skating is currently still a weakness but not enough to keep him out of the NHL as it is adequate for the style of play that he employs. That style of play by the way is not a dman who controls the game but a rugged defender who has some offensive ability and a great shot. In order to make it in the NHL he will have to eliminate most of the risky play that he attempts as he just isn't skilled enough to pull it off at the next level. I personally would compare him to Johnny Boychuk of the Bruins.

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Old
09-20-2013, 05:10 PM
  #44
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It seems that Bergy takes in account the previous season when it comes to give opportunites to players at camp. Maybe Ellis came to camp unfit physically.

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Old
09-20-2013, 07:07 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by HCH View Post
How about

Emelin - Subban
Beaulieu - Tinordi
Gorges - Pateryn
I like Emelin for a top pairing in a year or so.

People really don't seem to appreciate the value Emelin had on this team. We started our nose dive precisely when he was injured.

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Old
09-21-2013, 05:50 PM
  #46
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Was at the Bulldogs open practice and scrimmage today.

Noone talks about Ellis because there isnt much to talk about. He has a ways to go to be a solid AHLer. Never will be NHL. JUst nothing about his game is strong. Everything is good junior, mediocre AHL, and not on NHL radar.

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