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Bergevin needs to reinfornce the defense a.s.a.p.

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Old
09-20-2013, 01:46 PM
  #126
LePoche69
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Originally Posted by SwiftyHab View Post
Only in Montreal can we have the current Norris trophy winner and people still complaining about our defence.
It's because as fans, we want to win Stanley Cups, not just individual trophies.

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09-20-2013, 01:46 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I don't think Emelin is the guy. And he's hurt until at least January.


Nobody's complaining about Subban.

Yeah, Chara's not getting tired out fighting in front of the crease at all... C'mon man.

Subban should be out there for 27 mins. a game. He can easily handle this.
You need to read the paper, Emelin could be back as soon as late November.

When is Chara "fighting in front of the crease"? He has like 5 career fights in 13 years. Chara doesn't play a high energy game, he plays a stay at home style and uses his reach and height to advantage. He will occasionally play physical but it's not all out physicality or big hits.

I'm sure Subban can handle 27 minutes early on, but over a full season it would impact his play in the 2nd half. Plus with Markov and Diaz, no reason to overuse him.

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09-20-2013, 01:47 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Don't mention McD. You are going to make us cry.
AGREED WE ALL HAVE DONE THIS

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09-20-2013, 01:47 PM
  #129
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I understand the frustration I really do but you have to realize that the cap changes things. We cannot build a team by trade or free agency we have to build from within. While you're doing that you have to put a product on the ice. Changing Briere, Bouillon, Drewiske, Desharnais or whoever you don't like for whoever you like will just make you fell better.

What we all really want is to see is the team among the elite year in year out. That takes time. Before Detroit became the powerhouse organization we know they were the laughing stock of the nhl for 30 years even worst with Chicago.

Over the years the team stumbled badly. Because of those stumbling we tend to look at our feet instead of ahead. I think we're on the right track. Bergevin will make errors, nobody's perfect (even you whiskey ) but if his errors are short term we can live with that.

He built an organization that is the envy of the nhl right now. That, long term, is the most important.
Now some of Gauthier's picks are almost ready for the show. That's mid-term.
Short term is putting a product on the ice that competitive and will be fun to watch until we have the horse to be an elite team.

Have heart I think we are closer than many thinks.
We aren't trying to build a team through free agency though. We already have a number of good to great pieces. Complementing that with 1-2 FAs that address current needs makes sense.

We aren't starting from scratch, so the whole it takes time argument doesn't make sense. We have an all-star goalie, two elite defenceman, one of whom is a Norris winner, and a deep offence. We are close to being a contender which is why we should be trying to get the missing pieces and take the next step. Instead we've decided to spin our tires for a couple years.

Relying solely on the draft to get the missing horses is a recipe for mediocrity. We won't be drafting high enough to get elite players with any kind of consistency. We will always be 2-3 years away because by the time a drafted player is able to address a need, a veteran has probably moved on opening up another need. We have a bright future, but it's not going to materialize if we just sit around waiting for it. We have to be proactive.

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09-20-2013, 01:48 PM
  #130
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no GDT yet?

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09-20-2013, 01:48 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Don't mention McD. You are going to make us cry.
I actually say this out loud to people minus the crying part ,

someone just SAYS the name and i go "just stop....just stop right there...i dont even even want to THINK about it"

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09-20-2013, 01:50 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You read wrong. Whiskey has already pointed this out to you. Please stop with these useless posts.


boohoo

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09-20-2013, 01:52 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
We aren't trying to build a team through free agency though. We already have a number of good to great pieces. Complementing that with 1-2 FAs that address current needs makes sense.

We aren't starting from scratch, so the whole it takes time argument doesn't make sense. We have an all-star goalie, two elite defenceman, one of whom is a Norris winner, and a deep offence. We are close to being a contender which is why we should be trying to get the missing pieces and take the next step. Instead we've decided to spin our tires for a couple years.

Relying solely on the draft to get the missing horses is a recipe for mediocrity. We won't be drafting high enough to get elite players with any kind of consistency. We will always be 2-3 years away because by the time a drafted player is able to address a need, a veteran has probably moved on opening up another need. We have a bright future, but it's not going to materialize if we just sit around waiting for it. We have to be proactive.
We are also packed with prospects now.

Galchenyuk, Price, Subban, Max, Gallagher, Eller... that's a good base. Add in a big forward and a shutdown guy and we're in very good shape. So why didn't we do this?

More puzzling... why did we actually get smaller up front with an old guy who doesn't play wing very well?

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09-20-2013, 01:52 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
I am looking at the defense and the fact that Murray, Emelin, Bouillon and Drewiske are all injured now, Bergevin needs to add to this defense core a.s.a.p. and not with another 6th or 7th defenseman, we need a top 4 defenseman or else there is no way we are going to be better than Detroit, Ottawa or Boston this season and make the playoffs.

I would like to see Montreal go after Ryan Whitney, I think he's the type of defenseman we need, he had bad luck in Edmonton and his confidence went down when they pulled the "A" from his jersey, but he's still a good defenseman.

Any thoughts?
I was on the Hainsey train for months. Oh well. The Canes did well in the late offseason scrap heap business last season, I bet this one works out for them too.

These injuries, it's never a good thing, but if any dmen are gonna get hurt, it's better that it's this group (Emelin excepted). On the off chance that all of them are out to open the season, I don't think Tinordi and a kid is enough of a downgrade from Murray-Bouillon to really hurt the team. If need be, a coach can spread some extra ice time around the top 5 and hide the kid until a vet is healthy. Therrien did it a few times last season.

A lot of smart Oiler fans think that Whitney's feet have been damaged to the point where he basically can't skate sideways anymore.

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09-20-2013, 01:53 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We definitely need a big shutdown guy. No doubt about it.
Wtf? No we don't..

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09-20-2013, 01:53 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
I was on the Hainsey train for months. Oh well. The Canes did well in the late offseason scrap heap business last season, I bet this one works out for them too.

These injuries, it's never a good thing, but if any dmen are gonna get hurt, it's better that it's this group (Emelin excepted). On the off chance that all of them are out to open the season, I don't think Tinordi and a kid is enough of a downgrade from Murray-Bouillon to really hurt the team. If need be, a coach can spread some extra ice time around the top 5 and hide the kid until a vet is healthy. Therrien did it a few times last season.

A lot of smart Oiler fans seem convinced that Whitney's feet have been damaged to the point where he basically can't skate sideways anymore.
Whitney had some injuries that have wrecked what could've been a really good career. I hope he recovers but he isn't the blueliner he used to be.
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Wtf? No we don't..
Oh, okay.

Plan the parade guys!
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Originally Posted by Redux91 View Post
I actually say this out loud to people minus the crying part ,

someone just SAYS the name and i go "just stop....just stop right there...i dont even even want to THINK about it"
At least we got Gomez out of it.

BTW, Peter Pocklington got six months in jail today for making the Gretzky trade. I'm pretty sure the same thing is going to happen to Gainey.

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09-20-2013, 01:55 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
We aren't trying to build a team through free agency though. We already have a number of good to great pieces. Complementing that with 1-2 FAs that address current needs makes sense.

We aren't starting from scratch, so the whole it takes time argument doesn't make sense. We have an all-star goalie, two elite defenceman, one of whom is a Norris winner, and a deep offence. We are close to being a contender which is why we should be trying to get the missing pieces and take the next step. Instead we've decided to spin our tires for a couple years.

Relying solely on the draft to get the missing horses is a recipe for mediocrity. We won't be drafting high enough to get elite players with any kind of consistency. We will always be 2-3 years away because by the time a drafted player is able to address a need, a veteran has probably moved on opening up another need. We have a bright future, but it's not going to materialize if we just sit around waiting for it. We have to be proactive.
From what he's said and his moves, MB sees the cup window open up in a couple years once Galchenyuk is a top 6 center. That gives the young d-men(Tinrdi Beaulieu Pateryn Nygren etc) time to arrive and the young wingers(Bozon Hudon LeBlanc Collberg De la Rose McCarron) also.

What you see as "sitting around waiting for it" they see as going out and developing our young players so they are part of the core.

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09-20-2013, 01:56 PM
  #138
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Check for the Galchenyuk experiment at center tonight. If Galchenyuk works at center short term, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bergevin trade one of habs' centermen + something for that elusive #2 d-man.

I know he's in Toronto, but Franson would do the trick.

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09-20-2013, 01:59 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
We are also packed with prospects now.

Galchenyuk, Price, Subban, Max, Gallagher, Eller... that's a good base. Add in a big forward and a shutdown guy and we're in very good shape. So why didn't we do this?

More puzzling... why did we actually get smaller up front with an old guy who doesn't play wing very well?
Because those guys are expensive to add.

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09-20-2013, 02:01 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Check for the Galchenyuk experiment at center tonight. If Galchenyuk works at center short term, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bergevin trade one of habs' centermen + something for that elusive #2 d-man.

I know he's in Toronto, but Franson would do the trick.
Franson isn't a bad player, but if he is your #2 d-man you're a bad hockey team. If he's a #2 then so is Diaz.

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09-20-2013, 02:02 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
Check for the Galchenyuk experiment at center tonight. If Galchenyuk works at center short term, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bergevin trade one of habs' centermen + something for that elusive #2 d-man.

I know he's in Toronto, but Franson would do the trick.
Briere can also play at center short term. I'd think it also has a lot to do with how comfortable the organization is with Thomas/Leblanc at RW.

I just have an issue with Franson's skating ability, he's quite slow and only 26 years old.

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09-20-2013, 02:03 PM
  #142
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We don't need physically imposing dman, we just need guys that can play the position.
I'm sorry, did you not watch the playoffs last year ? We needed a physically imposing dman so much that we threw our best prospect into a baptism of fire because we, literally, had NO other options. We could have derailed tinordi's development if it went south ( than god it didnt), have we not learned from this already ?

People say we have depth at D when we have depth at PMD's. I am not convinced that Tinordi would benefit more playing with the habs this year than in hamilton. If something goes south with tinordi in the NHL, the cuppords are BARE.

People say that guys like markov and diaz are sufficiently physical are fooling themselves. I'm not sure if Raphael Diaz could whip eggs and he still might be tougher than drewistki. The next best thing we have behind a guy who has played 1/2 of a shortened season is Emelin who is one unfortunate collision from being toast. We need a physically imposing Dman so much that we are willing to ignore Murrays lack of foot speed and accept that he's gonna get burned to the outside all season long.

This team is going in the right direction but there are still fundamental and glaring deficiencies. Pretending that these don't exist might make you feel better about our chances but its not going to do anything to address these deficiencies. Markov is not goingto last forever and we have guys who can take over his role, or guys who will likely be able to do so in the future. If we lose emelin again and tinordi goes down, who steps up ?

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09-20-2013, 02:04 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
From what he's said and his moves, MB sees the cup window open up in a couple years once Galchenyuk is a top 6 center. That gives the young d-men(Tinrdi Beaulieu Pateryn Nygren etc) time to arrive and the young wingers(Bozon Hudon LeBlanc Collberg De la Rose McCarron) also.

What you see as "sitting around waiting for it" they see as going out and developing our young players so they are part of the core.
That's fine... so why get Briere?

We've got a bunch of cap space and ignore our needs. Why do this?

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09-20-2013, 02:04 PM
  #144
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Wtf? No we don't..
Huh? Yeah we do.

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09-20-2013, 02:10 PM
  #145
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What is necessary on defence is the next big defensive defenceman, you know the one we missed getting when Philly took Morin. Then to top that off Nashville takes Seth Jones and with their 2nd pick in the draft take Johnathan Diaby, our 2nd choice behind Morin, who was to know?

Oh well, time to key on the big Dman to join the system before Tinordi and Beaulieu are both in the NHL. Now that the offence (Big Bruising Forwards & Goalie) are taken care of it's time to fill in the positions that will be vacated soon in the system. This is how the Habs were built in the past and to become winners must be accomplished once again.

Bergevin knows this as shown by his piece of work in two drafts and a half season of play to estimate the talent he has to add too.

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09-20-2013, 02:12 PM
  #146
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Because those guys are expensive to add.
They are when you waste your cap space on a guy you don't need... like Briere.

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09-20-2013, 02:12 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I'm sorry, did you not watch the playoffs last year ? We needed a physically imposing dman so much that we threw our best prospect into a baptism of fire because we, literally, had NO other options. We could have derailed tinordi's development if it went south ( than god it didnt), have we not learned from this already ?

People say we have depth at D when we have depth at PMD's. I am not convinced that Tinordi would benefit more playing with the habs this year than in hamilton. If something goes south with tinordi in the NHL, the cuppords are BARE.

People say that guys like markov and diaz are sufficiently physical are fooling themselves. I'm not sure if Raphael Diaz could whip eggs and he still might be tougher than drewistki. The next best thing we have behind a guy who has played 1/2 of a shortened season is Emelin who is one unfortunate collision from being toast. We need a physically imposing Dman so much that we are willing to ignore Murrays lack of foot speed and accept that he's gonna get burned to the outside all season long.

This team is going in the right direction but there are still fundamental and glaring deficiencies. Pretending that these don't exist might make you feel better about our chances but its not going to do anything to address these deficiencies. Markov is not goingto last forever and we have guys who can take over his role, or guys who will likely be able to do so in the future. If we lose emelin again and tinordi goes down, who steps up ?
Murray can't be that bad, either that or Shero is a complete idiot for paying a couple of 2nd rounders for him.

Fans on here are too obsessed with physicality on defense. Chicago won the cup with a smaller defense that's not very physical. Ours is more physical than theirs.

Guys like Diaz and Markov rely more on positionning, hockey sense and an active stick to break up plays and cause turnovers.

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09-20-2013, 02:15 PM
  #148
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The problem isn't Bergevin.

Look at our draft picks for DMen over the last several years. Next look at Ottawa's draft history for DMen during the same period. There is your problem.

Our previous management believed that larger DMen are not a target for the draft (except Tinordi).

Gainey/Gauthier put us in this position. Bergevin is trying with the addition of Murray (who is vilified by a lot of people here even before the season starts)

The Gauthier era hurt this team a lot.
How about we let the prospects develop before we panic? Why do we need to have things fixed at absolutely this minute, can we not have a bit of patience? There are a lot of armchair GM's on this forum, but none have any patience, a lost quality in my opinion. The Hab's have decent depth at D, even if they are just short term filler. MB has said from the beginning that he is building through the draft, b/c in his opinion that is the best way to find franchise players.

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09-20-2013, 02:16 PM
  #149
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They are when you waste your cap space on a guy you don't need... like Briere.
We needed Briere to replace the goals lost by Ryder moving on. Would you rather have LeBlanc or Thomas in that spot?

Plus it wasn't a cap space issue, there were simply NO #2 calibre d-men available on the UFA market. If you want to trade for one then it will cost cap space PLUS a couple guys like Beaulieu Tinordi McCarron Gallagher. MB isn't willing to pay that.

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09-20-2013, 02:16 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I'm sorry, did you not watch the playoffs last year ? We needed a physically imposing dman so much that we threw our best prospect into a baptism of fire because we, literally, had NO other options. We could have derailed tinordi's development if it went south ( than god it didnt), have we not learned from this already ?

People say we have depth at D when we have depth at PMD's. I am not convinced that Tinordi would benefit more playing with the habs this year than in hamilton. If something goes south with tinordi in the NHL, the cuppords are BARE.

People say that guys like markov and diaz are sufficiently physical are fooling themselves. I'm not sure if Raphael Diaz could whip eggs and he still might be tougher than drewistki. The next best thing we have behind a guy who has played 1/2 of a shortened season is Emelin who is one unfortunate collision from being toast. We need a physically imposing Dman so much that we are willing to ignore Murrays lack of foot speed and accept that he's gonna get burned to the outside all season long.

This team is going in the right direction but there are still fundamental and glaring deficiencies. Pretending that these don't exist might make you feel better about our chances but its not going to do anything to address these deficiencies. Markov is not goingto last forever and we have guys who can take over his role, or guys who will likely be able to do so in the future. If we lose emelin again and tinordi goes down, who steps up ?
Who do we have to take over for Markov? Offensively, defensively, and his minutes. It's a heck of a lot easier to sign goons for the back end than to fill a #2 defenceman's spot, that's common sense. Are you saying the guy we should acquire should be a bruiser AND capable of being a #2 two-way defenceman? Good luck finding one. Hockey and defence isn't just about physicality.

I think it's much more important to have players that can play their position than players who are there just to fill a role. Not to say you don't need role players.

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