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Oilers sign Ryan Nugent-Hopkins to extension [7 years/$6 million AAV] ‎

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:38 PM
  #51
Richard
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I think the reason for this contract is simple. The cap has been artificially "set back" with the last lockout. It has only factored a half season. There were estimates that a full season last year would be 4B dollars.

The cap is gonna rise pretty damn fast folks. Hold on to your butts.

6M may be the steal of steals.

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09-20-2013, 12:40 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Ray Ferraro came on TSN1050 and thrashed Oilers GM for handing out this contract, and rightfully so.

Before he did that, he did appreciate future of RNH, and there is no doubting that really. But the points he made were solid:

RNH wasn`t going to be a RFA until next fall, and in worst case scenario; he would hold out. Let`s face it: even with a point a game season (in injury ridden season nonetheless), he wasn't going to command more than what he already got in this contract as a RFA. At this point, it is pretty much a given that Yakupov is getting 6 million as well.

A little premature to hand out this contract.
I usually have all kinds of respect for Ferraro but I think he's wrong here. Its sometimes tough for retired players to accept the reality of the new NHL.

Not many people are asserting that RNH won't be overpaid for a couple years - because he very likely will, and if he isn't we laugh anyway. Short term payout for long term savings so the oilers can have the flexibility to make trades like Bouwmeester and Iginla ones when they're ready to compete for the cup.

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09-20-2013, 12:40 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by v00d00daddy View Post
So you think he needs an entire month of the season to get game ready?
Nope, and I don't think the Oilers do either. They have stuck with the November 1st date since prior to surgery. I think RNH will see NHL ice mid October, maybe 3rd week.
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Is he playing in any pre season games?
As of yet, nope. RNH has stated that he is not in game form yet.
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The "no contact" jersey coming off in camp means nothing if he's not playing in pre season games.
Incorrect. That is a multimillion dollar liability no sane business person would ever make unnecessarily. I could see a team waiving insurance liability for a playoff run, for pre-season, or even the first half of a year...no chance.
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If he was cleared to play he'd be playing. You don't sit out a guy for 13-14 games if he's medically cleared.
Incorrect again.

You play your players when they are ready to play. Throwing a player out when they are medically cleared, but not mentally, or (as I suspect) physically ready, you do nothing but hinder their long term development.

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by thalegion View Post
To be fair if kadri is going to make silly comments relevant to discussion he will be brought in.
Fair enough.

I'd attempt to make an intellectual analysis of Kadri and RNH's abilities to go along with the thread but typing on my phone for an extended period of time in the middle ofnan accounting class is provably not the best idea.

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
I usually have all kinds of respect for Ferraro but I think he's wrong here. Its sometimes tough for retired players to accept the reality of the new NHL.

Not many people are asserting that RNH won't be overpaid for a couple years - because he very likely will, and if he isn't we laugh anyway. Short term payout for long term savings so the oilers can have the flexibility to make trades like Bouwmeester and Iginla ones when they're ready to compete for the cup.
And it also opens up a possibility of a offer sheet that could screw the team as well.

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Talking about Leafs... to a Canucks fan.. and with wrong facts nonetheless. Leafs traded or Bolland; not signed him.
My mistake there no question about it I also think my question hasn't been answered because the answer is obvious.

I really think that MacT and Lowe are trying to build another dynasty. These moves aren't being made for one cup run, they're being made to dominate the league for a decade.

God i hope they pan out.

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09-20-2013, 12:45 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Ray Ferraro came on TSN1050 and thrashed Oilers GM for handing out this contract, and rightfully so.

Before he did that, he did appreciate future of RNH, and there is no doubting that really. But the points he made were solid:

RNH wasn`t going to be a RFA until next fall, and in worst case scenario; he would hold out. Let`s face it: even with a point a game season (in injury ridden season nonetheless), he wasn't going to command more than what he already got in this contract as a RFA. At this point, it is pretty much a given that Yakupov is getting 6 million as well.

A little premature to hand out this contract.
If you assume he was going to get the same contract next year, signing it this year doesn't make a lick of difference because it won't kick in until his current deal expires.

At worst all they've done is ticked off an item from next summer's to-do list 12 months early.

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:45 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Ray Ferraro came on TSN1050 and thrashed Oilers GM for handing out this contract, and rightfully so.

Before he did that, he did appreciate future of RNH, and there is no doubting that really. But the points he made were solid:

RNH wasn`t going to be a RFA until next fall, and in worst case scenario; he would hold out. Let`s face it: even with a point a game season (in injury ridden season nonetheless), he wasn't going to command more than what he already got in this contract as a RFA. At this point, it is pretty much a given that Yakupov is getting 6 million as well.

A little premature to hand out this contract.
Playing hardball with your core is how you lose key players for zero assets. The Oilers are overpaying him for a year or two for potentially massive savings later. It was the same with the Hall deal.

And yea, Yakupov will get 6 million as well. It'll be well worth it. We (and other NW division fans) know what we have.

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:46 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
You just signed Clarkson and Bolland for close to 10 million dollars.

Quick straw poll, Clarkson and Bolland for (too lazy for math) 9.5 million ish, or Hall and RNH for 12?
Quick straw poll, kessel/jvr/Lupul at ~14m or nuge and hall at 12. I could probably find a terrible contract and add that onto your side but I won't because I'm not obtuse

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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
What ? He had 19 points in 40 games, as a 20 year old.

Nuge hasn't even recorded an NHL point as a 20 year old yet.

Also nobody is talking about AHL points.
I figured we were talking stats va stats here so I assumed nuge was 20 years old last year. Didn't know we could have an argument pointing out kadris stats and speculating the nuge's. kadri has never played more than 29 games for the leafs in a season until this year so I don know where your stat came from. Kadri in his first look as a leaf (as a 20 year old I believe) was 12 in 29 games. Nuge had 24 Pts in 40 some odd games. So ya, nuge had double the points in around double the games. Hardly twice the player

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:47 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Prophet Kadri View Post
I really don't like this deal for the oilers. 6 million a year for one good season and yakupov is going to want the same deal. He's a good player but I think the oilers could have waited a year to see if he was a 6 million dollar player.
Even if RNH plays at the exact same level he did last season I still have no problems with him being a 6 million dollar player. People don't understand just how good he is all around. He's not going to shoot 4%. Hell to start last season that entire line with Hall and Eberle and RNH had trouble finishing their chances but it did improve. No concerns here about RNH living up to that deal, he is already a top line centre who can play head to head against the best in the west, that's worth 6 million a year and to have him locked in long term is just fantastic.

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:49 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by NutCracker View Post
Silly leafs fans thinking Kadri is better than RNH. That said it's a little risky contract but is probably going to be worth it
One leafs FAN said that kadri was better. Most of us (including fans of other teams) are arguing that kadri is A LOT closer than nuge being "twice the player" than kadri is. That's oilers FANS thinking that

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09-20-2013, 12:50 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
Quick straw poll, kessel/jvr/Lupul at ~14m or nuge and hall at 12. I could probably find a terrible contract and add that onto your side but I won't because I'm not obtuse



I figured we were talking stats va stats here so I assumed nuge was 20 years old last year. Didn't know we could have an argument pointing out kadris stats and speculating the nuge's. kadri has never played more than 29 games for the leafs in a season until this year so I don know where your stat came from. Kadri in his first look as a leaf (as a 20 year old I believe) was 12 in 29 games. Nuge had 24 Pts in 40 some odd games. So ya, nuge had double the points in around double the games. Hardly twice the player
Do Leaf fans really think that Kadri is close to RNH and that he should get a similar contract?

If so, wouldn't you be happy locking him up for 7 years at only 6m? Bridge contracts are a stupid idea if you already have a stud player - you're saving money in the short term for a chance at having to pay way more in the long run (or losing the player)

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09-20-2013, 12:55 PM
  #63
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Absolutely terrible, the guy hasn't even been able to play a full season yet.

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:55 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
Quick straw poll, kessel/jvr/Lupul at ~14m or nuge and hall at 12. I could probably find a terrible contract and add that onto your side but I won't because I'm not obtuse
But but but Lupul's always injured! Band aid/bust/terrible/small/other silly RNH arguments. I've actually
always liked Lupul even when he crumbled under the hometown pressure here.

And Kessel is a pending UFA likely looking for a payday that will assuredly be in excess of 6 million.

I picked RNH/Hall/Bolland/Clarkson because they're all long term contracts, go ahead and throw 1 more year of $5 mil Hemsky in there if you want, doesn't have any long term effects.

Or am I being obtuse?


Last edited by spiny norman: 09-20-2013 at 01:13 PM. Reason: [/QUOTE]
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Old
09-20-2013, 12:57 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
Quick straw poll, kessel/jvr/Lupul at ~14m or nuge and hall at 12. I could probably find a terrible contract and add that onto your side but I won't because I'm not obtuse



I figured we were talking stats va stats here so I assumed nuge was 20 years old last year. Didn't know we could have an argument pointing out kadris stats and speculating the nuge's. kadri has never played more than 29 games for the leafs in a season until this year so I don know where your stat came from. Kadri in his first look as a leaf (as a 20 year old I believe) was 12 in 29 games. Nuge had 24 Pts in 40 some odd games. So ya, nuge had double the points in around double the games. Hardly twice the player
Apparently you are obtuse, Nuge's caphit is 3.75 this season, and you're bonkers if you think Kessel won't be looking for a payday when he hits UFA.

Also Nuge turned 20 in april, so he hasn't played his 20 year old season yet. Point was Nuge had 3-4x the amount of NHL points by 19 than Kadri has had by 20... so for those of you comparing a 22 year old Kadri to a 20 year old Nuge, its apples to oranges.

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Old
09-20-2013, 01:01 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Ray Ferraro came on TSN1050 and thrashed Oilers GM for handing out this contract, and rightfully so.

Before he did that, he did appreciate future of RNH, and there is no doubting that really. But the points he made were solid:

RNH wasn`t going to be a RFA until next fall, and in worst case scenario; he would hold out. Let`s face it: even with a point a game season (in injury ridden season nonetheless), he wasn't going to command more than what he already got in this contract as a RFA. At this point, it is pretty much a given that Yakupov is getting 6 million as well.

A little premature to hand out this contract.
Which top 3 pick, having scored at PPG clip before signing their contract has signed for anywhere in the range of 5 to 6 million dollars?

edit: this will come up I bet. Kane signed a 6.3 million deal in 2009. His cap hit percentage was 11%. Which is todays cap is 7.13 million (11% x 64 million). RNHs contract also doesnt kick into till after next year, which the cap could be around 68-70 million. Ill split it down the middle and the contract would be worth 7.6 million.

Edit further: Kane didnt even have a ppg season when he signed that deal in Dec 2009. He was in the midst of it tho. 72 and 70 point seasons before

Maybe the closest is Tavares, but he only scored 67 point the season before he signed the contract.

In comparison, Stamkos signed 7.5 million after his PPG seasons, in which he was able to play easier minutes because of Leclavier.

Its a a very idealistic statement to say RNH would have signed a similar (6m) contract after a PPG season, since it hasnt happened.

If he does score around PPG next season, while handling #1 center duties. Hell be one of the youngest players to do so. Hes not signing at 6 million when players like Seguin has also done so.

I would also bet all my money that if the Tavares contract was pushed back one season, to after his ppg season (in which Ferrero is sugesting RNHs should have been done) He wouldnt sign for 5.5 milion. After seeing comparbale deals signed around him, hes upwards of 6.5 or 7.


Last edited by topchowda: 09-20-2013 at 01:12 PM.
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Old
09-20-2013, 01:02 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChaoticOrange View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
Quick straw poll, kessel/jvr/Lupul at ~14m or nuge and hall at 12. I could probably find a terrible contract and add that onto your side but I won't because I'm not obtuse
But but but Lupul's always injured! Band aid/bust/terrible/small/other silly RNH arguments. I've actually
always liked Lupul even when he crumbled under the hometown pressure here.

And Kessel is a pending UFA likely looking for a payday that will assuredly be in excess of 6 million.

I picked RNH/Hall/Bolland/Clarkson because they're all long term contracts, go ahead and throw 1 more year of $5 mil Hemsky in there if you want, doesn't have any long term effects.

Or am I being obtuse?
Lupuls injuries are all different injuries as I have touched on earlier, which is more of a result of bad luck than being injury prone like RNH. Recurring injuries are WAY more of a concern than different injuries. You are being obtuse. JVR is signed for 4 years and same with Lupul IIRC. Bolland isn't a long term contract, he becomes a FA after this year hence why I replaced him with kessel since they are signed for the same amount of time. I'm just pointing out how stupid your comparison is because you cherry picked your best players and 5th best forward and our third line shut down centre.


Last edited by spiny norman: 09-20-2013 at 01:13 PM. Reason: [/QUOTE]
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09-20-2013, 01:04 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post

Lupuls injuries are all different injuries as I have touched on earlier, which is more of a result of bad luck than being injury prone like RNH. Recurring injuries are WAY more of a concern than different injuries. You are being obtuse. JVR is signed for 4 years and same with Lupul IIRC. Bolland isn't a long term contract, he becomes a FA after this year hence why I replaced him with kessel since they are signed for the same amount of time. I'm just pointing out how stupid your comparison is because you cherry picked your best players and 5th best forward and our third line shut down centre.
Seriously?

Nuge had a recurring shoulder problem, it got operated on.

Lupul has had several different issues including concussion, blood infections, back spasms, etc

But, no, you're right. Lupul is far more durable because he gets hurt and sidelined different ways.


Last edited by spiny norman: 09-20-2013 at 01:14 PM. Reason: corrected quoting
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09-20-2013, 01:07 PM
  #69
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Seriously?

Nuge had a recurring shoulder problem, it got operated on.

Lupul has had several different issues including concussion, blood infections, back spasms, etc

But, no, you're right. Lupul is far more durable because he gets hurt and sidelined different ways.
I have not followed RNH's injury history but from what I read he hasn't played a full season without injuring that same shoulder he injured in junior. That's much more of a problem than flukey injuries such as lupuls


Last edited by spiny norman: 09-20-2013 at 01:14 PM. Reason: corrected quoting
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09-20-2013, 01:10 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
I have not followed RNH's injury history but from what I read he hasn't played a full season without injuring that same shoulder he injured in junior. That's much more of a problem than flukey injuries such as lupuls
Which is why the Oilers shut him down and he had surgery to repair it.

Which fluky or badluck injury is going to shut Lupul down next? Because its happened to him every year, but he's not injury prone. Just unlucky.

Seriously.


Last edited by spiny norman: 09-20-2013 at 01:14 PM. Reason: corrected quoting
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09-20-2013, 01:10 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post

I have not followed RNH's injury history but from what I read he hasn't played a full season without injuring that same shoulder he injured in junior. That's much more of a problem than flukey injuries such as lupuls
how is that more a problem? now it's fixed and getting 100% healthy...1 problem

unlike Lupul who been concussed, bad back, broken hand...multiple problems

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09-20-2013, 01:21 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Drop The Mits View Post
Quick straw poll, kessel/jvr/Lupul at ~14m or nuge and hall at 12. I could probably find a terrible contract and add that onto your side but I won't because I'm not obtuse



I figured we were talking stats va stats here so I assumed nuge was 20 years old last year. Didn't know we could have an argument pointing out kadris stats and speculating the nuge's. kadri has never played more than 29 games for the leafs in a season until this year so I don know where your stat came from. Kadri in his first look as a leaf (as a 20 year old I believe) was 12 in 29 games. Nuge had 24 Pts in 40 some odd games. So ya, nuge had double the points in around double the games. Hardly twice the player
Next season when RNH's new deal kicks in Kessel will be making about 8-9mil season. JVR has a good contract and Lupul always seems to be injured. So realistically it would be Kessel, JVR and Lupul for 17-18 million or RNH, Hall and Eberle for 18 million. If you're going to throw number out at least use what the number will probably look like when RNH's deal kicks in. I also highly doubt Kessel, one of the top young players in the game takes less then Getzlaf or Perry.

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09-20-2013, 01:27 PM
  #73
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Wait, so 48 games isn't enough to evaluate Hall as a star player but it is to **** all over RNH's new contract?

Way to be consistent, some of you who argue both.


Last edited by Del Preston: 09-20-2013 at 01:40 PM. Reason: better?
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Old
09-20-2013, 01:34 PM
  #74
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Wait, so 48 games isn't enough to evaluate Hall as a star player but it is to **** all over RNH's new contract?

Way to be consistent, HF.
Is there a chance that perhaps this forum consists of over 100,000 people who all have differing opinions, and maybe assuming that the whole of HF is contradicting itself is a bad idea?

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09-20-2013, 01:35 PM
  #75
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Do people not see the risk of offer sheets btw. We don't sign him every team and their aunt would be after a #1c.

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