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Crosby proclaims Price the best goalie in the league.

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Old
09-20-2013, 09:42 AM
  #301
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yawn

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09-20-2013, 10:30 AM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
http://www.rds.ca/hockey/lnh/price-l...rosby-1.661059

So, I know this is to take with a grain of salt, but it has to account to something, when a player coming from an unbiased stand point proclaims someone like that.

FLAME SUIT ON.

I don't think he's the best, Rinne is way too dominant for that with that glove hand, but it's a ''pensez-y bien''


So from the video, Luongo had one vote, Price one, Rask one vote, Hank, quick and Rinne each got several votes.
If you kids want to know a good reason to not start using drugs, well here it is. Crosby shoudnt have started using that. The damage it can do to your brain is wicked, im telling you.

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Old
09-20-2013, 12:09 PM
  #303
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I thought it was known world wide Subban is the best goalie... Can't touch dat 8.00GAA.

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09-20-2013, 02:39 PM
  #304
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The fact is Price has no equal in nets, many are close but are left wanting, when Price is on his game. Regardless of talent the team game has to be tight, otherwise it doesn't matter which goalie is in nets. This season Price will have dmen that can clear the front of the net as well as block shots, this along with the best goalie coach in the hockey world, should see Carey clearly as #1 not just in Montreal.

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Old
09-20-2013, 03:02 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
It's not a really good stat at all... The point that me and WTK are trying to make is that sv% doesnt take on-ice action into action, so you can't judge performance based on that.

It's like if someone won the rocket-richard with 50 empty netters... Does he deserve it ?
When your examples are this absurd you should realize you have no point.

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Old
09-20-2013, 03:09 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
There's no doubt that Price has to be better than he was at the end of last year. He wasn't good. That's not all on the D. But keep in mind it was a shortened year. A five game slump will kill your stats a lot more than it would in a regular season. And while I do think there was some coincidence with Price having terrible numbers after Emelin went down, I don't think it was ALL coincidental.

He played great for most of the season and then sucked. He's got to be better and I don't have a problem with anyone saying this. What I am saying though is that our GM did diddly **** to help the situation. We really need a shutdown guy and we don't really have one. Murray, Tinordi... we're rolling the dice.

Markov and Diaz are offensive guys. The rest are also rans. Gorges is supposed to be good but he sucked last year and that hurt too.

Subban is really the only top flight defender we have. And for whatever reason, our coach decided not to use him nearly enough nor was he used on the PK. It's a very, very weak defensive group. And nobody out of this group is particularly good at clearing the net which is where we really need the help. God help us if Tinordi can't step in or if Gorges plays like he did last season. That group sucks defensively man, please don't sit there and tell us how Markov and Diaz are going to provide the kind of protection we're talking about because they won't.
Markov and Diaz are puck movers, an essential asset to defense, in fact, the most important aspect by a few miles.

Defense isn't the narrative you're suggesting, being stuck in your end isn't a good thing. Moving the puck out promptly is more important than everything else. Diaz/Markov are well above average.

They won't provide the protection you're talking about and quite frankly what they provide is twice as valuable. I'm done in this thread, it's like talking to a brick wall, people repeating the same non sense post after post. Posting isolated games and other foolishness like this somehow proves their point.

You're going to keep posting the same misguided opinion repeatedly and there is nothing I can say to change it, so I'm not going to bother trying anymore.

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Old
09-20-2013, 03:31 PM
  #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Markov and Diaz are puck movers, an essential asset to defense, in fact, the most important aspect by a few miles.
Puck moving is important. Most important? Debatable.

I know I'd rather have Zedeno Chara defending a one goal lead in the final minute of play rather than Paul Coffey. And I loved Paul Coffey.

Who the **** said that puck moving wasn't important dude? Nobody denies this. But if you've got a team of Paul Coffeys or Marty St. Louis you are going to have problems.

It's about balance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Defense isn't the narrative you're suggesting, being stuck in your end isn't a good thing. Moving the puck out promptly is more important than everything else. Diaz/Markov are well above average.
Diaz and Markov are great with the puck and not good without it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
They won't provide the protection you're talking about and quite frankly what they provide is twice as valuable. I'm done in this thread, it's like talking to a brick wall, people repeating the same non sense post after post. Posting isolated games and other foolishness like this somehow proves their point.
What's foolish is trying to argue that puck moving is all you need out of your blueliners and you'll be fine. As for it being twice as valuable... that's nonsense. I could see the argument that it's twice as hard to find those kinds of players and that you should hang onto them when you have them but again it's about balance.

You've actually encapsulated exactly what's been wrong with our team for years. We think that by having nothing but puck moving speedy players we can win. It doesn't work that way. You need balance. You need some size and some grit. We've got arguably the best offensive blueline in the league and yet we go nowhere because the freaking Ottawa Senators (not exactly intimidating) beat the crap out of us.

We've totally ignored the aspect of the game where standing in front of the net is important. It IS important. Clearing the net is important. If you don't do this you won't win. We've proven this time and again. Of course you need puck moving guys. But having a Marc Staal or Dino Ciccarelli in your lineup (which we don't) is important too.

Have you ever seen this team grind out a win? Seriously man. We couldn't grind our way out of a paper bag with Miley Cyrus' help.

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Old
09-20-2013, 06:48 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Puck moving is important. Most important? Debatable.

I know I'd rather have Zedeno Chara defending a one goal lead in the final minute of play rather than Paul Coffey. And I loved Paul Coffey.

Who the **** said that puck moving wasn't important dude? Nobody denies this. But if you've got a team of Paul Coffeys or Marty St. Louis you are going to have problems.

It's about balance.

Diaz and Markov are great with the puck and not good without it.

What's foolish is trying to argue that puck moving is all you need out of your blueliners and you'll be fine. As for it being twice as valuable... that's nonsense. I could see the argument that it's twice as hard to find those kinds of players and that you should hang onto them when you have them but again it's about balance.

You've actually encapsulated exactly what's been wrong with our team for years. We think that by having nothing but puck moving speedy players we can win. It doesn't work that way. You need balance. You need some size and some grit. We've got arguably the best offensive blueline in the league and yet we go nowhere because the freaking Ottawa Senators (not exactly intimidating) beat the crap out of us.

We've totally ignored the aspect of the game where standing in front of the net is important. It IS important. Clearing the net is important. If you don't do this you won't win. We've proven this time and again. Of course you need puck moving guys. But having a Marc Staal or Dino Ciccarelli in your lineup (which we don't) is important too.

Have you ever seen this team grind out a win? Seriously man. We couldn't grind our way out of a paper bag with Miley Cyrus' help.
You can have the last word. I'm done, you've been spewing falsehoods as truths all thread long.

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Old
09-20-2013, 10:18 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
When your examples are this absurd you should realize you have no point.
Well I'm trying to help you understand a simple thing... Trying different methods because letters on a white font don't cut it for you.

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09-20-2013, 11:48 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Diaz and Markov are great with the puck and not good without it.
Really don't agree with that. If you had said "not great without it", I don't think I would have replied, but both of these guys play a game that simply employs smarts above brawn when it comes to the 99% of the game where the puck isn't on their sticks. Positionally both are much better than "okay", and you don't have to be physical to disrupt opponents' scoring attempts, as evidenced by the fact that Diaz had almost as many blocked shots as Subban or Bouillon, but in only half the games. And Markov had more than everyone except Gorges, btw, and had as many takeaways as the next two guys combined. Those are all examples of play without the puck.

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Old
09-21-2013, 05:48 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Well I'm trying to help you understand a simple thing... Trying different methods because letters on a white font don't cut it for you.
Yeah, well if a guy passes the puck and all his 80 assists are actually offside, is he really a good playmaker ?

I don't need your help, try helping yourself.

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Old
09-21-2013, 06:15 AM
  #312
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Even as a Leafs fan, there are few goalies in the league I would take over Price. I'm being completely serious too.

Any other goalie would look like Vesa Toskala behind that MTL team

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09-21-2013, 11:40 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Really don't agree with that. If you had said "not great without it", I don't think I would have replied, but both of these guys play a game that simply employs smarts above brawn when it comes to the 99% of the game where the puck isn't on their sticks. Positionally both are much better than "okay", and you don't have to be physical to disrupt opponents' scoring attempts, as evidenced by the fact that Diaz had almost as many blocked shots as Subban or Bouillon, but in only half the games. And Markov had more than everyone except Gorges, btw, and had as many takeaways as the next two guys combined. Those are all examples of play without the puck.
Markov was never really great defensively but he wasn't bad. I think that's changed now though. He's not the guy he used to be. I think he's decidedly below average defensively now. With the puck he's still strong and is obviously fantastic on the PP. Diaz is a marshmallow. Maybe that will be different this season as he's still young.

I know that folks love Markov but I've always felt like Hab fans have vastly overrated him over the years. I remember the Kaberle vs Markov debates and felt Markov was better. But not that much better. Similar players who relied on positioning to defend. That's fine but there are big holes on the defensive side. I know I'm opening a can of worms here in saying this but that's the way I've always felt about him. And now he's a liability in his own end. I'll just put on my flamesuit and walk away now.

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Old
09-21-2013, 12:43 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Markov was never really great defensively but he wasn't bad. I think that's changed now though. He's not the guy he used to be. I think he's decidedly below average defensively now. With the puck he's still strong and is obviously fantastic on the PP. Diaz is a marshmallow. Maybe that will be different this season as he's still young.

I know that folks love Markov but I've always felt like Hab fans have vastly overrated him over the years. I remember the Kaberle vs Markov debates and felt Markov was better. But not that much better. Similar players who relied on positioning to defend. That's fine but there are big holes on the defensive side. I know I'm opening a can of worms here in saying this but that's the way I've always felt about him. And now he's a liability in his own end. I'll just put on my flamesuit and walk away now.
I'm surprised to find out how much the data agrees with you. Corsi against (shots directed against) per 20 minutes last season, with/without Markov:

Emelin 18.01/15.81
Bouillon 18.67/16.69
Subban 14.19/15.79
Drewiske 18.34/14.28 (the Kings' awesomeness distorts this)
Diaz 25.23/19.22

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Old
09-21-2013, 04:30 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Markov was never really great defensively but he wasn't bad. I think that's changed now though. He's not the guy he used to be. I think he's decidedly below average defensively now. With the puck he's still strong and is obviously fantastic on the PP. Diaz is a marshmallow. Maybe that will be different this season as he's still young.

I know that folks love Markov but I've always felt like Hab fans have vastly overrated him over the years. I remember the Kaberle vs Markov debates and felt Markov was better. But not that much better. Similar players who relied on positioning to defend. That's fine but there are big holes on the defensive side. I know I'm opening a can of worms here in saying this but that's the way I've always felt about him. And now he's a liability in his own end. I'll just put on my flamesuit and walk away now.
You're right, Markov isn't the player he used to be, but he was by all means great before the injuries. Diaz is ok, but then again...

The real problem isn't the play without the puck, Diaz, Emelin and Markov are all above average in this regard but its in the way they fight the opposition when theyre in close, theres just nothing happening... (For Diaz and Markov.)

Now if we talk about Bouillon and Gorges... Now that's a case of bad without and with the puck. Too many times did I see both these guys stare blindly at the crowd while a play was happening in close...

MT's system doesn't help these guys AT ALL.

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09-21-2013, 05:24 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Markov and Diaz are puck movers, an essential asset to defense, in fact, the most important aspect by a few miles.

Defense isn't the narrative you're suggesting, being stuck in your end isn't a good thing. Moving the puck out promptly is more important than everything else. Diaz/Markov are well above average.

They won't provide the protection you're talking about and quite frankly what they provide is twice as valuable. I'm done in this thread, it's like talking to a brick wall, people repeating the same non sense post after post. Posting isolated games and other foolishness like this somehow proves their point.

You're going to keep posting the same misguided opinion repeatedly and there is nothing I can say to change it, so I'm not going to bother trying anymore.
I don't have an issue with PK-Markov-Diaz as our three puck carriers. But I think it's important to pair them with strong defensive Dman.

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09-21-2013, 06:51 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
You're right, Markov isn't the player he used to be, but he was by all means great before the injuries. Diaz is ok, but then again...

The real problem isn't the play without the puck, Diaz, Emelin and Markov are all above average in this regard but its in the way they fight the opposition when theyre in close, theres just nothing happening... (For Diaz and Markov.)

Now if we talk about Bouillon and Gorges... Now that's a case of bad without and with the puck. Too many times did I see both these guys stare blindly at the crowd while a play was happening in close...

MT's system doesn't help these guys AT ALL.
I'm interested in this part. What do you mean?

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09-21-2013, 07:09 PM
  #318
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Relevant to the shot quality vs shot quantity arguments in this thread: http://vhockey.blogspot.ca/2009/07/s...y-fantasy.html

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09-21-2013, 09:21 PM
  #319
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Jekyll and Hyde this team.

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09-21-2013, 09:25 PM
  #320
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I'm not going to draw any conclusions until the season actually starts.

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09-21-2013, 09:34 PM
  #321
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Delete.

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09-21-2013, 09:48 PM
  #322
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It was the Defense fault tonight! It had to be...

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09-22-2013, 10:51 AM
  #323
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Relevant to the shot quality vs shot quantity arguments in this thread: http://vhockey.blogspot.ca/2009/07/s...y-fantasy.html
Everyone will just gloss over this post so they can continue to believe the ******** they spew on a regular basis.

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09-22-2013, 11:39 AM
  #324
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It was the Defense fault tonight! It had to be...
Well...

goal 1: turn-over in front of net, one-timed off the post and in
goal 2: Cross-crease pass put in the top corner by a legitimate sniper named Skinner
goal 3: Wide shot deflected off his own D into his net.

I'd say he'd like to have a big save on either goal 1 or 2. But in neither cases is the goalie subject to BLAME on any goal last night.

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09-22-2013, 12:31 PM
  #325
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Well...

goal 1: turn-over in front of net, one-timed off the post and in
goal 2: Cross-crease pass put in the top corner by a legitimate sniper named Skinner
goal 3: Wide shot deflected off his own D into his net.

I'd say he'd like to have a big save on either goal 1 or 2. But in neither cases is the goalie subject to BLAME on any goal last night.
Again, in Price case, when you are seen as THE best goalie of the league, or top 5, or the next Canadian great goalie....being weak should not even be in the cards here. Majority of the goals should be about great plays. Where the best goalie of the league should do is save sure goals. Stopping Skinner once in a while. And coming out with an incredible save on the 1st goal. Which sometimes he did. All the saves he makes aren't easy saves. But you need those 1 goal a game performances to save your average team a whole lot of time. That's what the best goalie in the league should be able to do. It's not normal that we're actually are able to find so easily weak goals given by him. It does happen, happen to the best of them from Roy to Brodeur. But not as often.

So last night, actually, his worst moment was the 1st goal behind the net. Which is called preseason adaptation, and especially based on the fact that he was dealing with a young D in Pateryn, Price do need to learn that your first instinct will be your best one. He goes behind the net and just put his stick down as if he's going to throw the puck down the boards to which Pateryn responded by not being in Price's way until....Price backed off seeing Pateryn making Great having to deal with the puck instead. That's totally Price fault as far as I'm concerned. But not that big of a deal as it could be placed on "preseason" adaptation. But he does that in a regular game with a regular teamate and he'll be big time at fault.

Now if our team is so bad that it's totally detrimental to the success of the best goalie in the NHL, well this team is incredibly awful and need to be fixed from top to bottom. Is it the case? Are people asking to change the whole team? Strangely, I feel that the same ones who are blaming the system, the D or the team for Price lack of success, are also the ones who feel we are not that far from bring very good.....Which is it?

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