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If Markov retired tomorrow, would you want the Habs to retire his number?

View Poll Results: If Markov retired tomorrow, would you want the Habs to retire his number?
Yes 47 17.41%
No 223 82.59%
Voters: 270. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-20-2013, 09:55 PM
  #51
LeHab
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What is the team record with and without him?

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Old
09-20-2013, 10:46 PM
  #52
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Markov never had the team to even counted for the cup... so it isn't is fault he didn't win the cup that should be held against him FYI Brisebois won a cup will we retire is number?

Markov as been dominated the league but never got the full credit see the team wasn't winning I'm sure every player that past in Montreal were happy the play with Markov went on to sign there big UFA contract and disaper of the face of the earth once they had a different parterner.

Point against are his injuries cut into is prime years and maybe his best chance to win the cup which he could of left a better impression.
Mtl will be running out of number to play with if we keep retiring numbers at this rate

I would retire is number but not when he retire I wait a good 10-20 years just because he probably been the most dominant player Montreal have had since 1993 and #79 is a bit of a odd number it doesn't really matter if you retire it since probably no one else will wear it anyway.

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Old
09-20-2013, 10:51 PM
  #53
ArtPeur
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Even if Koivu wasn't the best player out here, I would like to see his jersey retired for all he's been through.
But Markov? I don't care really. He's a great D and he likes Montreal but I don't think he deserves it.

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Old
09-20-2013, 10:55 PM
  #54
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Been great, but hell no. Hasn't been a Hab since Koivu who has deserved it.

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:12 PM
  #55
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Markov - no

Koivu - absolutely

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:17 PM
  #56
Estimated_Prophet
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He isn't remotely close to being an NHL HOFer let alone being in the exclusive group of retired Hab jersey numbers.

As much as I like Koivu and Markov they are not even in the conversation with the rest of the numbers in the rafters. It is laughable that people compare Markov's numbers to Harvey's when Harvey went on a run of 6 Norris trophies in 7 seasons. In Harvey's era dmen were not offensive weapons at all. 40-50 points in Harvey's era are the equivalent to 70+ points by today's standards.

The overrating of Markov is a sad example of how far this team has fallen and how removed the fanbase is from true greatness. People can try to make a case for a linear statistical comparison but it is an exercise of ignorance.

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:19 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Markov - no

Koivu - absolutely
Koivu won't even get close to being an NHL HOFer.........the retired jersey club should be a much more exclusive group.

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:21 PM
  #58
sammy d
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Not even close, its a stupid question. Neither he or Koviu even come close to approaching the players who have had their numbers retired in the past.

That is all.

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:23 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Koivu won't even get close to being an NHL HOFer.........the retired jersey club should be a much more exclusive group.
Koivu's value to the organization and fanbase is more than a HoF vote; he was the inspiration of a decade of Habs faithful...his jersey should hang from the rafters of the Bell Centre the moment he hangs 'em up.

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:24 PM
  #60
FlyingKostitsyn
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No cup, no jersey retirement.

And don't get me wrong, I loved Koivu and love Markov but neither have won anything of note with us. They are the best we had in the last 15 or so years but that doesn't mean anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch
Koivu's value to the organization and fanbase is more than a HoF vote; he was the inspiration of a decade of Habs faithful...his jersey should hang from the rafters of the Bell Centre the moment he hangs 'em up.
So you and a bunch of people (including myself btw) loved him. Why does that mean we should retire his jersey? Its not a popularity contest nor a ''best effort'' award. The most storied and successful franchise in hockey (and perhaps sport) should not retire the jersey of anyone who doesn't have at least a cup or two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet
The overrating of Markov is a sad example of how far this team has fallen and how removed the fanbase is from true greatness. People can try to make a case for a linear statistical comparison but it is an exercise of ignorance.
And your statement is an excellent example of ''what have you done lately?'' mentality. I remember him being clearly a top5 defensemen for a couple of years. It was also consensus amongst other fanbases, before you call me homer.

Please note I'm not trying to say he's even close to being candidate for having his jersey retired, just that a lot of people forget how great Markov was for us. He was actually underrated most of his career. He's the best Hab of the last decade. Lucky for us Subban looks set to have an even better career. (which means we'd likely have to retire his number too, and Galchenyuk's, if we retire Koivu and Markov. Retiring 2 players per decade is just too much unless its a dynasty era)


Last edited by FlyingKostitsyn: 09-20-2013 at 11:35 PM.
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Old
09-20-2013, 11:44 PM
  #61
Estimated_Prophet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
Koivu's value to the organization and fanbase is more than a HoF vote; he was the inspiration of a decade of Habs faithful...his jersey should hang from the rafters of the Bell Centre the moment he hangs 'em up.
There are 41 ex Hab HOFers but there are only 18 retired numbers, every one of them are HOFers. There is not a single retired jersey that is not in the Hall.

It will be a sad day if the team bows to the acceptance of mediocrity from it's fanbase and drastically lowers it's standards to placate this new generation. The only player that is currently building a suitable resume is Subban and it is extremely early to even speculate on that.

I loved Koivu as a Hab and wanted us to draft him badly. I made sure I bought every edition of the Hockey News to follow his progression with TPS Turku. The year he came over , training camp was like Christmas for me to actually see him in a Habs jersey. Unfortunately if he wanted his jersey retired then he would have had to play for a pathetic Mickey Mouse organization in need of a publicity stunt to sell tickets. Part of the mystique about the Canadiens is the standard of excellence that has been set by former players.......I would be saddened to see this compromised as the rafters just wouldn't be the same with players that were merely good. I hope the team honours Koivu in some way but he doesn't deserve to have his jersey retired.

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:48 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
Koivu won't even get close to being an NHL HOFer.........the retired jersey club should be a much more exclusive group.
Top 10 all-time scorer, longest serving captain, and first European captain (in a city that celebrates its multiculturalism) is a pretty exclusive list, but admittedly lacks the level of success that the organization has more than enough to honour. If club jersey retirement was reserved only for HoF inductees, it would be a bit redundant, but I must admit that it appeals to some part of my own OCD logic, lol. It all depends on what each organization wishes to express through their jersey retirement, since it obviously is not a 1:1 relationship.

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:52 PM
  #63
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...so you guys think that the Leafs having Wendel Clark in their Honored Numbers is a mistake, then??...cuz it's the same deal, a player that embodied the spirit of the franchise for an entire generation of the fanbase and bled team colors every moment they had the sweater on...

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Old
09-20-2013, 11:58 PM
  #64
Estimated_Prophet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post

And your statement is an excellent example of ''what have you done lately?'' mentality. I remember him being clearly a top5 defensemen for a couple of years. It was also consensus amongst other fanbases, before you call me homer.
I am not going to call you a homer but I will recommend that you do not attempt to paraphrase me as you are completely wrong.

Where did I say that he was not one of the top defenders in the league for a period of time. He was definitely a consensus top 10 defender in the league and a top 5 on this board. I personally feel like he was on the bubble for the top 5 in his best years other than the 07-08 season where he definitely belonged there, but it would be blatant homerism to arbitrarily slot him in there as a statement of fact for any length of time.

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Old
09-21-2013, 12:03 AM
  #65
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No and its not even close in my mind. Koivu on the other hand is another story. He was one of the few bright spots in a rather bleak era. I'm not sure if his number should be retired but he definitely deserves some sort of lasting honor.

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Old
09-21-2013, 12:08 AM
  #66
Estimated_Prophet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
...so you guys think that the Leafs having Wendel Clark in their Honored Numbers is a mistake, then??...cuz it's the same deal, a player that embodied the spirit of the franchise for an entire generation of the fanbase and bled team colors every moment they had the sweater on...
You realize that we are talking about an organization that gave out rings to their '93 team as conference finalists lol.

The Leafs are our trailer park cousins........no need to mention their customs and rituals.

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Old
09-21-2013, 12:12 AM
  #67
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No just no no.
Why retired #79? LMFAO

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09-21-2013, 12:14 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
You realize that we are talking about an organization that gave out rings to their '93 team as conference finalists lol.

The Leafs are our trailer park cousins........no need to mention their customs and rituals.
...the Leafs may be a lot of things, but they honored a player that meant a ton to the organization and that Leaf fans to this day still hold a special place in their hearts for...#11 should be hanging from the rafters the moment Saku decides the ride is over.

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Old
09-21-2013, 12:16 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Retiring a number is an individual honor. You win Stanley Cups as a team so not winning a cup is irrelevant.

If Markov retires tomorrow, I don't think he makes it and he probably shouldn't. But in a few more years he'll be in top-3 if not top-2 in most of the offensive categories by defenceman. At that point you have to start considering it.

As for Koivu for me it's a no-brainer. For a generation of fans he WAS the Montreal Canadiens. We lived and died with him, he was the one ray of hope during our darkest times. You don't retire Koivu because he was one of the greatest players in the game, you retire his number because of what he meant to the team and it's fans. To quote Bob Gainey "He's a champion who hasn't won a championship."
That pretty much sums it up great post

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Old
09-21-2013, 12:17 AM
  #70
DDs not undersized
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In a 30 teams league, not many players will have their jersey retired anymore. There's much more competition than there was to get individual honors or team awards.

Maybe it's time for the organization to think about a different to honour the great players of the modern era, without retiring their numbers. Some players would deserve such an honour, no for what they accomplished league-wide, but for what they brought to the Montreal Canadiens :

Mats Naslund
Bobby Smith
Guy Carbonneau
Stéphane Richer
Vincent Damphousse
Patrice Brisebois
José Théodore
Saku Koivu
Andrei Markov
Alex Kovalev

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Old
09-21-2013, 12:28 AM
  #71
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Markov's number probably won't be retired but I can almost guarantee no Hab will ever wear it again.

That says alot. Whereas even the worst Montreal Canadien of all time wore #11 after Koivu left.

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Old
09-21-2013, 12:34 AM
  #72
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^^^ Don't they have the ring of honor^^^
It goes all around the blues?
Honors our past great but not just reserved for the retired jerseys?

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Old
09-21-2013, 12:34 AM
  #73
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Saku deserves it way more, if they decide to retire another number.

He was a warrior and inspiration for many. He always fought for this team in the darkest time. His implication on ice and in the community should deserve recognition.

Oh and being the longest serving captain should make a difference as well.

I know he hasn't won any cup but in this new era, I'm ready to make an exception for him because of the contribution he made for the team and city.

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Old
09-21-2013, 01:37 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmdubois585 View Post
The debate came up in the Markov interview thread and I thought it was an interesting question. Not that I want him to retire now, but he has the stats for it, but with the Habs you have to have the stats and the cup. I think the Habs should but I can see why some people wouldn't agree. I also hope that he retires as a lifetime Habs and doesn't sign as a UFA to another team other than his KHL team if he still wants to play hockey.
Do not be silly. No cup, no retired number. This is one example where older fans can advise you to calm down.

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Old
09-21-2013, 01:41 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso Scuderia View Post
Saku deserves it way more, if they decide to retire another number.

He was a warrior and inspiration for many. He always fought for this team in the darkest time. His implication on ice and in the community should deserve recognition.

Oh and being the longest serving captain should make a difference as well.

I know he hasn't won any cup but in this new era, I'm ready to make an exception for him because of the contribution he made for the team and city.
No. I know it is harsh, but no. No cup , no retired number. I would love to make an exception for Saku. He's a god. But no. It is not about feelings, it is about Cups.

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