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If Markov retired tomorrow, would you want the Habs to retire his number?

View Poll Results: If Markov retired tomorrow, would you want the Habs to retire his number?
Yes 47 17.41%
No 223 82.59%
Voters: 270. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
09-21-2013, 02:44 AM
  #76
bsl
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Originally Posted by Doc McKenna View Post
In this era winning multiple cups is very very hard. I voted yes, but its in context. Maybe have his jersey honoured. Say a 'Markov' on the shoulder and allow someone else to wear it. Same for Koivu and Muller on the number 11.
That's a good idea. And I think players would like that.

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09-21-2013, 02:45 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
...the Leafs may be a lot of things, but they honored a player that meant a ton to the organization and that Leaf fans to this day still hold a special place in their hearts for...#11 should be hanging from the rafters the moment Saku decides the ride is over.
Clark was an absolute God amongst Leaf fans..........Koivu was beloved by many but had many critics in Montreal. Koivu wasn't nearly as popular as Clark was in Toronto. Clark reached a level of popularity that could only be rivalled by Keon, Sittler and later Gilmour in Toronto.......Koivu never approached that level of reverence from the Montreal fanbase.

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09-21-2013, 02:50 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by wedge View Post
not even close.
One I would retire is Mats Naslund, just because he's our first european.

but he's only played 600 games, not nearly enough for having his number retired.

Carbonneau is another one who would deserve it a lot more than Markov and even Koivu.
Carbs in no way deserves to have the honour.

Fantastic player, but not even close to the level needed to have your number retired as a Hab. Keep your standards high, boys.

Subban, Price and possibly Gally are the only 3 who have a chance, and we had better win at least 2 cups with them.

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09-21-2013, 02:53 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
People need to get out of the six team 60's league and into the context of a 30 team NHL where players become unrestricted at 27.

Markov is not retiring tomorrow, he's probably going to have a 15+ year career with the habs. That's remarkable today, perhaps we will never see it again for this team.

what's more extraordinary is Markov did this while the players around him sucked, and for a while the organization was Mickey Mouse and led by idiots. Context people.

If people are reserving this team honour for Cup winning players who have HOF careers, fans will probably never see another jersey retired.
Fine.

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09-21-2013, 02:53 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
No. I know it is harsh, but no. No cup , no retired number. I would love to make an exception for Saku. He's a god. But no. It is not about feelings, it is about Cups.
It isn't about Cups at all. If Lafleur, Beliveau, Richard, Harvey, Robinson etc. had never won a cup they still would have had their respective numbers retired.

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09-21-2013, 03:01 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
I think he'll need a cup to even be considered. *****, Lemaire and Shutt aren't even there.
Lemaire was possibly better than Datsyuk, and he won multiple cups. That shows the standard. it is extremely high for Habs. This thread is depressing.

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09-21-2013, 03:03 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Estimated_Prophet View Post
It isn't about Cups at all. If Lafleur, Beliveau, Richard, Harvey, Robinson etc. had never won a cup they still would have had their respective numbers retired.
No. The would not have. All of those players won bloody battles year after year to win cups.

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09-21-2013, 03:09 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by persh View Post
What is the team record with and without him?
With: Zero Cups. Without: Zero Cups.

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09-21-2013, 03:11 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Lemaire was possibly better than Datsyuk, and he won multiple cups. That shows the standard. it is extremely high for Habs. This thread is depressing.
I was a huge fan of Lemaire but he was not nearly as skilled as Datsyuk.......he would be the first to admit as much. Lemaire doesn't receive nearly enough credit as everyone wants to mention Lafleur and Shutt but imo Lemaire was better than Shutt as he was a force in all three zones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
No. The would not have. All of those players won bloody battles year after year to win cups.
You simply can't make that statement especially when EVERY other team retires their "super stars" numbers regardless of accrued championships.

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09-21-2013, 03:12 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by calder candidate View Post
and #79 is a bit of a odd number it doesn't really matter if you retire it since probably no one else will wear it anyway.
Good criteria for retiring the jersey of a Montreal Canadien.

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09-21-2013, 03:20 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by BigDaddyLurch View Post
...the Leafs may be a lot of things, but they honored a player that meant a ton to the organization and that Leaf fans to this day still hold a special place in their hearts for...#11 should be hanging from the rafters the moment Saku decides the ride is over.
Emo. Wrong. And you degrade the memory of thousands of Habs fans.

Saku needs to be remembered in some way at bell center. Perhaps a heroes corner, etc. But Jersey retire? No. Way.

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09-21-2013, 03:23 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Emo. Wrong. And you degrade the memory of thousands of Habs fans.

Saku needs to be remembered in some way at bell center. Perhaps a heroes corner, etc. But Jersey retire? No. Way.
Completely agree!

No way Saku should be up there before Lemaire......

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09-21-2013, 03:29 AM
  #88
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Gomez IMO, because he must have the lowest goals/games/status ratio in Habs' history

Try to beat that, Rocket and Flower

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09-21-2013, 03:42 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post

As for Koivu for me it's a no-brainer. For a generation of fans he WAS the Montreal Canadiens. We lived and died with him, he was the one ray of hope during our darkest times. You don't retire Koivu because he was one of the greatest players in the game, you retire his number because of what he meant to the team and it's fans. To quote Bob Gainey "He's a champion who hasn't won a championship."
Look at the bolds above.

This sums up everything wrong with this thread, and the lack of knowledge of history, and the greatness that are the Montreal Canadiens, on this board.

Le Club de Hockey Canadien retires the number of a player at their own discretion.

It has nothing to do with you or me, or anyone else. They are a private Hockey club, and they set their own standards.

People like you will ruin this privacy, because you insist on being involved, and you're such an important FAN.

Facebook generation: We know BEST! We NEED to have a SAY! It's all about US!

Know your boundaries. You are a fan, not a member to the Club De Hockey Canadien. They don't care about your opinion. And they should not.

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09-21-2013, 06:14 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by antonch View Post
as much as i like the player, and for all the years he's served - no, nothing warrants it.
Since it was brought up by poster #2, koivu is in the same category.

Retired numbers are reserved for the greats, the dominating, the championship winners.
Individual trophy winners, cup winners, players for the ages.

My son is 8 yrs old and he knows who maurice richard and guy lafleur are. He does not know saku koivu for anything other than being an ex-hab
+1
.......................................



p.s.: favorite thing about Markov (besides his outlet passes)...his number!
(7 is M.Richard's brother if my memory is not wrong! and...9 is Maurice Richard... 79!! great numbers! still waiting for someone to wear 97 as a Hab besides J.Roenick as a Flyer!). I thought B.Savage's 49 was perfect (Beliveau's 4 and Rocket's 9 combined...49.............. 94 would be great as well if we could forget S.Berezin using it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).


Last edited by Mr. Hab: 09-21-2013 at 06:19 AM.
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09-21-2013, 07:24 AM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
With: Zero Cups. Without: Zero Cups.
you may want to look at the names on the cup, you will see a LOT of average to below average players on it...

and a few great names, such as Dionne or Perreault, will not be on it.

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09-21-2013, 07:33 AM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsl View Post
Emo. Wrong. And you degrade the memory of thousands of Habs fans.

Saku needs to be remembered in some way at bell center. Perhaps a heroes corner, etc. But Jersey retire? No. Way.
If you retire number 11...is it for Koivu or Kirk ''is work'' Muller??!!!!!
(or maybe...Gallagher in more than a decade!!? just wait a bit!).

(just having fun!).

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09-21-2013, 07:33 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Mr. Hab View Post
+1
.......................................



p.s.: favorite thing about Markov (besides his outlet passes)...his number!
(7 is M.Richard's brother if my memory is not wrong! and...9 is Maurice Richard... 79!! great numbers! still waiting for someone to wear 97 as a Hab besides J.Roenick as a Flyer!). I thought B.Savage's 49 was perfect (Beliveau's 4 and Rocket's 9 combined...49.............. 94 would be great as well if we could forget S.Berezin using it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!).
your memory is wrong. #16.

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09-21-2013, 07:50 AM
  #94
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Time to be more strict as to who gets his jersey retire. I thought they made a couple of mistakes, no need to make some more. At best, both Markov and Saku could be in the ring of honors. But at some point, while it might not be their fault, unless you didn't totally dominate your sport, like Marcel Dionne or Gilbert Perreault did, you don't see your jersey being retired. Your jersey is retired because you were a KEY player in KEY teams in history. They might have been very good players....but their teams were average to say the least. So it will be tougher now to see jersey being retired as you will not see a whole lot of dynasties anymore like we used to see before and frankly, that's fine with me. Still needs some jerseys to wear. But let's learn from our mistakes to not make them ever again. For the purpose of the discussion, jerseys I would not have retired would have been: Bouchard, Geoffrion, Moore, Cournoyer and Gainey. All great players....but when you then compare them to the others, it's not in the same category. And like somebody said....you could even have a case for Jacques Lemaire, WAY more than Koivu and Markov.

And if you bring it to another level, you could have only retired the likes of Plante, Harvey, Béliveau, Maurice Richard, Lafleur, Henri Richard who in the end takes care of each position and represents the greatness of this team.

Was not going to ask for retiring his jersey...but searching for things I cam across this moment I will never forget....sad in a way, but so touching in other ways. And to see all those greats still living from Blake to Harvey to Plante.....this was just awesome to see.


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09-21-2013, 08:26 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
Hate to tell you
one, he's an avid reader
two, the only thing I taught him is love for the team, not the name on the jersey
he learned about Lafleur and Richard all by himself
But i see where you can make a false assumption
Hate to tell you, but he's a poor reader if he's apparently so "avid", yet hasn't come across the 10th leading scorer all-time, the longest serving captain in history, and the first European captain in club history... the one who came back from cancer once, and again after almost losing an eye, to pass names like Lach, Naslund, Moore, Provost, Lapointe, Mahovlich, and Blake on the Habs' all-time scorers list - all passed after the 2006 Carolina series.

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09-21-2013, 08:31 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Time to be more strict as to who gets his jersey retire. I thought they made a couple of mistakes, no need to make some more. At best, both Markov and Saku could be in the ring of honors. But at some point, while it might not be their fault, unless you didn't totally dominate your sport, like Marcel Dionne or Gilbert Perreault did, you don't see your jersey being retired. Your jersey is retired because you were a KEY player in KEY teams in history. They might have been very good players....but their teams were average to say the least. So it will be tougher now to see jersey being retired as you will not see a whole lot of dynasties anymore like we used to see before and frankly, that's fine with me. Still needs some jerseys to wear. But let's learn from our mistakes to not make them ever again. For the purpose of the discussion, jerseys I would not have retired would have been: Bouchard, Geoffrion, Moore, Cournoyer and Gainey. All great players....but when you then compare them to the others, it's not in the same category. And like somebody said....you could even have a case for Jacques Lemaire, WAY more than Koivu and Markov.

And if you bring it to another level, you could have only retired the likes of Plante, Harvey, Béliveau, Maurice Richard, Lafleur, Henri Richard who in the end takes care of each position and represents the greatness of this team.

Was not going to ask for retiring his jersey...but searching for things I cam across this moment I will never forget....sad in a way, but so touching in other ways. And to see all those greats still living from Blake to Harvey to Plante.....this was just awesome to see.

if the Habs were to go with your standards, there would be no more retired jerseys, ever.

I'm not saying he should have his jersey retired, but lest not forget Markov never had a chance to partner with guys like Robinson, Pointu or Savard had in the 70's, never had a chance to play for a dynasty like those three D or the 50's dynasty, had injuries that made him miss (more or less) two and a half of his prime years... and yet, whenever we'll discuss who are the best D in Habs history we'll HAVE to include his name as he's probably going to retire among the top 3 D in points in the whole Habs history... given the context, it's no small feat.

the only reason I wouldnt retire his jersey is because he never got any significant individual award. The teams he played for sucked, not his faut, but he doesnt have a Norris (or other significant award) and never had "crazy" seasons (I dunno, scoring 30, getting 90 pts, whatever).

Otherwise, on an individual level he managed to be the best PP QB in the league (still is IMO), made other D look like all stars (Komisarek prime example), had/have a career playing with Komi, Souray, Streit, Schneider, Diaz, Subban, and so on, played on last place teams, had to deal with management circus...

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09-21-2013, 08:35 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Hate to tell you, but he's a poor reader if he's apparently so "avid", yet hasn't come across the 10th leading scorer all-time, the longest serving captain in history, and the first European captain in club history... the one who came back from cancer once, and again after almost losing an eye, to pass names like Lach, Naslund, Moore, Provost, Lapointe, Mahovlich, and Blake on the Habs' all-time scorers list - all passed after the 2006 Carolina series.
that or he reads about what mom/dad talks about more often... his kid is 8 years old afterall, it's not like he'd know where to find books/mags about the Habs anyway.

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09-21-2013, 08:45 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Hate to tell you, but he's a poor reader if he's apparently so "avid", yet hasn't come across the 10th leading scorer all-time, the longest serving captain in history, and the first European captain in club history... the one who came back from cancer once, and again after almost losing an eye, to pass names like Lach, Naslund, Moore, Provost, Lapointe, Mahovlich, and Blake on the Habs' all-time scorers list - all passed after the 2006 Carolina series.
Man crush much?

Some people have an issue facing reality, and will spin and spin and spin until they line things up the way they see fit.

Truth of the matter is the standards were set a long time ago, to loosen them now would be sacrilege in the eyes of many(myself included). I for one, am against it. Place him in the ring of honor, erect a statue to commemorate the most deserving Masterton trophy winner ever. Do not, however, tell me that he stands on his body of work, cancer aside, with this storied team's greats.

He was arguably the best player on really bad teams, does this warrant a number being retired? Where's all the hardware that the others have won? If you are from a generation where medals were awarded for participation perhaps he merits consideration. I for one don't think so.

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09-21-2013, 08:46 AM
  #99
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Multiple HOFers don't have thier jersey up there.

I don't think Markov will be going to the HOF.

So, no.

However, it's no reason to not celebrate his long years with us.

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09-21-2013, 08:48 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that or he reads about what mom/dad talks about more often... his kid is 8 years old afterall, it's not like he'd know where to find books/mags about the Habs anyway.
My sons been surprising me for 2 yrs now, where and how he digs up some of the reading material he digs up is beyond me. I'll never forget the day he came home with a book about Maurice Richard and tenacity

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