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Look like Plekanec is back Between Samsonov and Kovalev !

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Old
11-22-2006, 10:25 AM
  #51
IcE ColD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
For sure. How is it that the pressure to produce gets dumped on the player making $450K as opposed to the two guys getting paid $7.5 million?
'Cuz only the 450K player has been man enough to take the blame. Even if he was clearly the only one trying every single game.

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Old
11-22-2006, 10:52 AM
  #52
Stefan_Latulippe
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
I'm sticking to my preseason analysis; Plekanec is an excellent two way player and he has more offensive potential than he gets credit for. Too many people have written him off based on internet scouting reports and they don't have the confidence too analyze his potential with their own eyes. I'm sorry that sounds pretty hard nosed.
Well, 5 points in 19 games...two-way player = no offensive talent.

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Old
11-22-2006, 10:53 AM
  #53
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Why is everyone saying that the "2nd line" is the 2nd line? What I saw from the last games, makes me think that the 2nd line really is the Bonk one...Kovalev is the only one of that 3rd line to get top six forward ice time...even on the pp, the "2nd line" hasn't been use entirely...Is it because we don't want to think that our 2nd line has Bonk as a center...

As for the Niinimaa-Ribeiro trade, am I happy with mr. Niinimaa? Of course not, who could, the poor guy has been so bad it's kind a sad...

But come on, why would you want Ribeiro back? He hasn't become a great player, he's still the same overated, slow, cocky but with magic hands player he was. I'm glad the team moved on, now it's time that the fans do (Just like with Theodore).

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11-22-2006, 10:57 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Why is everyone saying that the "2nd line" is the 2nd line? What I saw from the last games, makes me think that the 2nd line really is the Bonk one...Kovalev is the only one of that 3rd line to get top six forward ice time...even on the pp, the "2nd line" hasn't been use entirely...Is it because we don't want to think that our 2nd line has Bonk as a center...

As for the Niinimaa-Ribeiro trade, am I happy with mr. Niinimaa? Of course not, who could, the poor guy has been so bad it's kind a sad...

But come on, why would you want Ribeiro back? He hasn't become a great player, he's still the same overated, slow, cocky but with magic hands player he was. I'm glad the team moved on, now it's time that the fans do (Just like with Theodore).
I guess you're partly right. Partly only because of all the stupid penalties we get since the beginning of the season. That is the main reason why our 2nd line doesn't get that much ice time. This and also the fact that they're not producing, so I guess when it's time to cut the bench in 3rd period, Carbo's benching them for not producing anything.

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:00 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by #ZAMBONI# View Post
A good trade ? geez ! no way . Not only Ribeiro is having more points than our second liners , but he did them with only 12 minutes ( average ) of ice per game . Our first liners are all playing 18 minutes per games . Playing 33 % more time , he would be our first pointer .

Ribeiro is deadweight... and thank goodness he is gone.

He gets limited ice time in Dallas because he is a liability and is not capable of playing responsibly against good players.

He never shows up for big games.

He would not be our leading scorer because he'd be playing with Samsonov and Kovalev.

And the Niinimaa trade was good. We got exaclty what you can expect to get for soft, mediocre, one-dimensional forwards these days; ....a 7th defenseman.

Finally, for the last time, points are not the only thing that matter. Ribeiro has never had trouble getting points. But he's never brought a winning style of play to the table and we are much better off with Plekanec than Ribeiro.

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:03 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe View Post
Well, 5 points in 19 games...two-way player = no offensive talent.
Half of those games playing on the 4th line. You could have said the same thing about Higgins at this point last season. That's why I used the word "potential"...to indicate that I am looking forward, not backward.

Young players with only one year of experience will not always have a record of success for you to look at statistically. You have to be able to use your own eyes to judge potential and quality.


Last edited by Catch-22: 11-22-2006 at 11:21 AM.
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Old
11-22-2006, 11:05 AM
  #57
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Keep Koivu with Lats or Higgins and Bonk and Johnson since those are the duos no one wants to mess with.
Split up Ryder and Koivu or split up Perez and and Bonk.


I'd put Kovalev with Bonk and Johnson and call that "the 2nd line"






Ryder-Koivu-Higgins/Lats
Johnson-Bonk-Kovalev
Samsonov-Plekanec-Perezhogin/Lats
Downey-Bégin-Lats/Dandenault

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:06 AM
  #58
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Hopefully this Samsonov-Plekanec-Kovalev line can click...if not, I think the best alternative would be...

Latendresse-Koivu-Ryder
Johnson-Bonk-Kovalev
Samsonov-Plekanec-Perezhogin

Murray-Bégin-Downey

Bonk and Johnson play a very simple, positional game...it maybe what Kovalev needs to get his game back.

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:07 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AymanD View Post
Ryder-Koivu-Higgins/Lats
Johnson-Bonk-Kovalev
Samsonov-Plekanec-Perezhogin/Lats
Downey-Bégin-Lats/Dandenault
Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Latendresse-Koivu-Ryder
Johnson-Bonk-Kovalev
Samsonov-Plekanec-Perezhogin

Murray-Bégin-Downey
Great minds

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:09 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by AymanD View Post
Great minds
lol! Yeah I noticed that...

I'm perplexed as to why this hasn't been tried yet

although given the way the 3rd line has played 5 on 5, it's hard to break them up.

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:15 AM
  #61
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From wht I've heard and seen about Johnson (as I use to have Johnson in my hockey pool).

He is the ultimate slumpbuster.

I feel that Samsonov and Kovalev would benefit greatly of having Johnson as their centre. But if no one wants to break up our dynamic duo of Bonk and Johnson, then might as well put the slumping Kovalev as their winger.






By the way, I say this and I'm still utterly convinced that the closer we get to the end of the season and the playoffs, the better Kovalev will be playing.

As he said it himself, he never really plays well in October/November.

If Kovalev is in a funk in late march, we can worry.

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:18 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
Hopefully this Samsonov-Plekanec-Kovalev line can click...if not, I think the best alternative would be...

Latendresse-Koivu-Ryder
Johnson-Bonk-Kovalev
Samsonov-Plekanec-Perezhogin

Murray-Bégin-Downey

Bonk and Johnson play a very simple, positional game...it maybe what Kovalev needs to get his game back.
To echo, I hope that the Samsonov-Plekanec-Kovalev line can work, but if it can't I would try the following (mentionned a few times in this thread already) before spliting up PBJ:

Latendresse-Koivu-Kovalev
Samsonov-Plekanec-Ryder
Perezhogin-Bonk-Johnson
Begin et al.....

I really think Koivu could get Kovalev going again if needed and I think we now have enough secondary contributors (something we didn't have in the past) to be able to put these two together and still get secondary scoring. In short, while in the past putting Koivu/Kovalev together might have made us a one-line team, I don't think it does anymore and it should be tried.

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:21 AM
  #63
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Why don't we make it truly top heavy 2 line team.

Samsonov-Koivu-Higgins
Johnson-Bonk-Kovalev

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:25 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
Half of those games playing on the 4th line. You could have said the same thing about Higgins at this point last season. That's why I used the word "potential"...to indicate that I am looking forward, not backward.

Young players with only one year of experience will not always have a record of success for you to look at statistically. You have to be able to use your own eyes to judge potential and quality.
Last year, no one said that Higgins would put up more points than Ribs....But 96% of the posters were saying that Pleks would put up better numbers than Ribs, if given the chance. This did not materialize at all.

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11-22-2006, 11:39 AM
  #65
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I understand the point of if it's not broke it don't fix it, meaning we can't change the 3rd line but I don't agree with it. I believe a Kovalev that is happy and works better is more important than a good 3rd line with Perez on it. Either we stop making a big fuss out of the 2nd line not working 'cause in reality we now think that the Bonk-Johnson-Perez line is the 2nd one, or you do everything you can to make a 2nd line INCLUDING your most important gamebreaker of the team (Kovy). So my #2 and #3 line would be:

Kovy-Bonk-Johnson
Sammy-Pleks-Perez

4th, you bring up Lapierre, the team will be better without Streit and with Dandy and Bouillon regularly in the lineup as D. And your team will be better without Murray and Downey at the same time on the ice while Bégin CAN'T play center. Alternate Downey and Murray, Lapierre as a center, Bégin on the wing.

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:47 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe View Post
Last year, no one said that Higgins would put up more points than Ribs....But 96% of the posters were saying that Pleks would put up better numbers than Ribs, if given the chance. This did not materialize at all.
Would love to see Pleky get the Kovy and Sammy line working again but have some doubts. Hopefully my doubts can be blown away.
As for Ribs vs Pleky...which is not on topic, I can't see Pleky beating Ribs on offense. He will bring more defensive responsibility though.
I love what Dallas is doing with Ribs. Throw him in a line that doesn't play much and use him mainly for the 2nd pp unit. Wish we could have done something similar here. May have been more useful than Ninny playing for us.

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:55 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe View Post
Last year, no one said that Higgins would put up more points than Ribs....But 96% of the posters were saying that Pleks would put up better numbers than Ribs, if given the chance. This did not materialize at all.

Really? I don't know a single person who predicted Pleks would have more points than Ribeiro. The Ribeiro bandwagon was pretty full. But I do think that Pleks is a better hockey player than Ribeiro and the type that will win games. Ribeiro is a choker and a one-dimensional liability.

My point is that looking at Plekanec's points through the first 20 games of the season and saying he has no offensive talent is like saying that about Higgins at this point last season.

One thing to be wary of. Just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it won't happen. Plekanec is still just 23 and has plenty of time to learn.


I also think that once again too many posters are debating ONLY in terms of points. Ribeiro's point totals are irrelevant because he was such a liability in every other facet of the game. Plekanec may have fewer points but he is a solid all-around hockey player and we need that more than we need another one-dimensional offensive player, especially a mediocre one like Ribeiro.

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Old
11-22-2006, 12:02 PM
  #68
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I have only one question for you guys...and i really would want to know what you explanations might be cause now i'm kinda desperate:

Why Does Carbonneau don't break up the Kovalev- Samsonov duo ?

Whys he seems to want those two to click so desperetly ?

Is it because this was the only reason why we picked Samsonov this summer ?..To make him click with Kovalev?...

I mean it's been a little while now since we all saw this wasn't working...He is trying several things in the line-up...but he seperated them for what ...one game only ?..And i think Samsonov had a good game then....


Why? oh WHY?

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11-22-2006, 12:19 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by THEREW View Post
I have only one question for you guys...and i really would want to know what you explanations might be cause now i'm kinda desperate:

Why Does Carbonneau don't break up the Kovalev- Samsonov duo ?

Whys he seems to want those two to click so desperetly ?

Is it because this was the only reason why we picked Samsonov this summer ?..To make him click with Kovalev?...

I mean it's been a little while now since we all saw this wasn't working...He is trying several things in the line-up...but he seperated them for what ...one game only ?..And i think Samsonov had a good game then....


Why? oh WHY?
Pretty easy Sir.
1st line is doing Okay.
3rd line is doing GREAT.
Therebefore, only second line is having trouble so you can't move Kovy or Sammy to 1st or 3rd ATM because
you don't want to break their sequence.
Finally, Kovy wants to play with Sammy and Sammy wants to play with Kovy.

Our solution to this problem is Higgins center of Kovy and Sammy.

That's it.

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11-22-2006, 12:24 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by TheDamned View Post
Pretty easy Sir.
1st line is doing Okay.
3rd line is doing GREAT.
Therebefore, only second line is having trouble so you can't move Kovy or Sammy to 1st or 3rd ATM because
you don't want to break their sequence.
Finally, Kovy wants to play with Sammy and Sammy wants to play with Kovy.

Our solution to this problem is Higgins center of Kovy and Sammy.

That's it.
I'm not sure i still believe in this whole "don't break the sequence" thing...I mean..isn't it preferable to have 3 good lines than 2 great lines and a poor one...or is it even ?


I Don't think the first line will do really bad if we tries someone else on Koivu's wing...It might even be as good....What i'm saying is: Why not try at all? ever ?

Maybe Koivu don't really want to play with Kovalev...I can't figure it out

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Old
11-22-2006, 12:36 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THEREW View Post
I have only one question for you guys...and i really would want to know what you explanations might be cause now i'm kinda desperate:

Why Does Carbonneau don't break up the Kovalev- Samsonov duo ?

Whys he seems to want those two to click so desperetly ?

Is it because this was the only reason why we picked Samsonov this summer ?..To make him click with Kovalev?...

I mean it's been a little while now since we all saw this wasn't working...He is trying several things in the line-up...but he seperated them for what ...one game only ?..And i think Samsonov had a good game then....


Why? oh WHY?

I'm thinkin' along the same lines...

And you're also right about 3 good vs. 2 good and 1 poor.

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Old
11-22-2006, 01:23 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by jason allison'fans View Post
jason Allison is the answer to the second line problem
wake up theres a reason no one's picked him up

552 games over 11 seasons??? thats an average of 50 games a season.....
I guess if we're past 30 games we can pick him up that way he'll probably get to game 82?

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Old
11-22-2006, 01:25 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Catch-22 View Post
I also think that once again too many posters are debating ONLY in terms of points. Ribeiro's point totals are irrelevant because he was such a liability in every other facet of the game. Plekanec may have fewer points but he is a solid all-around hockey player and we need that more than we need another one-dimensional offensive player, especially a mediocre one like Ribeiro.
To be a solid all-around player you need to contribute offensively. Which is not the case for Pleks.

What we need is a center for the second-line, which we don't have but used to have.

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11-22-2006, 01:33 PM
  #74
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i think we should play with four lines and no line being more important....

listen we really cannot split the 3rd IMO to me PBJ has been the most consistent line

here's what i propose....

Higs-Koivu-Tender
Sammy-Pleks-Ryder
(This is not to demote Ryder just to put him wheres he's needed most.This line has a playmaker a skater and a scorer..Ryder can clear space, sammy can carry the puck and pleks can find the open man)

Perogy-Bonk-Johnson
Kosts-Kovalev-Begin
(Almost the same thing as the second line however begin is not the scorer ryder is however he can clear space for kovy and kosts)


Play the fourth line more mins and roll 4 full lines and shorten the bench near the end of the game

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11-22-2006, 01:54 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
Why is everyone saying that the "2nd line" is the 2nd line? What I saw from the last games, makes me think that the 2nd line really is the Bonk one...Kovalev is the only one of that 3rd line to get top six forward ice time...even on the pp, the "2nd line" hasn't been use entirely...Is it because we don't want to think that our 2nd line has Bonk as a center...).
That's one reason(kind of scary,lol) and who wouldn't expect a Kovalev/Samsonov line to be one of a team's top two? Performance wise the Bonk line is the 2nd line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTL-rules View Post
As for the Niinimaa-Ribeiro trade, am I happy with mr. Niinimaa? Of course not, who could, the poor guy has been so bad it's kind a sad...

But come on, why would you want Ribeiro back? He hasn't become a great player, he's still the same overated, slow, cocky but with magic hands player he was. I'm glad the team moved on, now it's time that the fans do (Just like with Theodore).
If the team was getting more goals it would probably be 'Ribeiro who?'. I was always a Ribeiro supporter until the Boston incident and his play in the playoffs.

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