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Rangers re-sign Derek Stepan [2 years, $6.15M, $3.075M AAV]

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Old
09-23-2013, 11:19 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by rangersbaby View Post
I hope he holds out so you can go on that first road trip and come back 1-7 because the organization wants to show a 21 year old kid he has no rights in the CBA by the way who was considered by most on this board better than nash last year while making 875 and he completely outplayed his first contract. Now he sees mostly every one else in his situation getting long term deals thrown in his face... He has accepted the fact that a bridge deal is what he will sign but wants fair value which is not 2.9....
Pay him 3.4 or risk losing your most consistent forward to start the season and possibly have to climb your way back into the playoff picture after 8 games.
No Stepan, Callahan, and hagelin to start the year on the west coast road trip..... GOOD LUCK.....
That is how you spell L-E-V-E-R-A-G-E people. He can sit out the year and have it go to arbitration next year and get 5.5 per. The club treats the player like a piece of meat because they have no rights and the fans on this board like that. Pay him what he is worth or what fair market value is for him. But dont get pissed when the player looks out for himself. Who does he owe this too. The club, The fans, His family, Himself. He showed up and made the club as a 19 yr old kid played every game since then had some up and downs along the way but got better and more complete every year.
He is our number 1 center and gets paid like a 6th or 7th forward. He knows his worth and his agent knows his worth I like that he is sticking it to the man a little...
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Originally Posted by rangersbaby View Post
I didnt just say steps.
They are already down cally and hags. Add step to that list it doesnt make it any easier.
He can make 5 million tax free in KHL no questions asked if he wants.
St petersburg is only a 4 hour flight to Socchi....
He is than arb eligible than next year and gets 5.5 through arbitration when he comes back.
Not that I think this is the right play or he would do that..... but he could if he wanted too.
3.5 is more than fair for what he has done in 3 years in this league. He has played in a defensive system as well and has only 10 less points in 30 fewer games than duchene. And is way more responsible defensively.
This is so bad on so many levels it's not even funny.

You need to spend more time trying to understand how numbers come to fruition. What an ELC is. What arbitration is. What leverage is. You have proven time and time again that you're completely oblivious to the business aspect of hockey. All you care about is making sure Stepan gets his money.

You don't care about the team. You care about Stepan. That doesn't make you a Rangers fan. So don't come here and get your panties in a bunch and make stupid, asinine statements regarding how this organization treats their players. This is one of the classiest organizations in all of professional sports, world-wide. A team that treats their players like ****ing gold. Get your facts straight if you want to be taken seriously.

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09-23-2013, 11:19 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
Hes a disgrace
A disgrace? That is a ****ing RIDICULOUS statement. Grow up, kid.


The problem isn't hating on a guy for trying to get his money. The problem here is that you're looking at a guy with no available options other than an offer-sheet who is on a ticking clock. The problem is him looking at this situation thinking he has an A)upper hand or B)the leverage to be able to miss games when he isn't getting paid and is on a tryout for team usa. The futility of the situation is what is so maddening. It's essentially like he's banging his head against the wall over and over again. The situation is what it is. Accept it and move on.

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09-23-2013, 11:20 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Hockey is different here.

Overpay the mercs, squeeze the home grown guys.

love it
That is not really even what bothers me, Rangers are missing the boat. The cap is going up, McD good deal, they got that one right, if they were to sign him in 2, 3, 4 years he's going to get way more. Same for Stepan. Rangers long term thinking is off in this occasion. They are focused on leverage, they should be focused on why they are trying to use it in the first place.

If they want to set a precedence, how about one that signs their players before they have to. Not saying all of the players, but the ones who have proven to be consistent, which Stepan has. How about one that gets their only hope of winning signed, Lundqvist before that absolutely has to be done? Or their captain, or Girardi or Stralman?

Rangers have set a precedence already, it goes something like, Everyone waits until we sign UFAs, must shop first. Then we'll get around to the RFAs with arbitration rights. Then we'll scour the league for what we think are bargains. Then finally the RFAs without arbitration rights, they'll just have to take whatever is leftover. Yet they want Stepan to believe if he signs a bridge deal they are going to extend him before they have to, before they go through this whole process again, twice, and they'll have the cap space to do so? Yeah right.

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09-23-2013, 11:29 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
Hockey is different here.

Overpay the mercs, squeeze the home grown guys.

love it
Why wasn't this an issue with the oh-so many other RFA's Sather has signed over the years?

3.2 is squeezing? For a player who's had a 1/2 season of 1C production and isn't arbitration eligible?

The Mercs have paid their dues. They're ****ing entitled to the overpayment necessary to sign them. Stepan hasn't done **** to ask for a penny over 3M.

Sign the bridge deal. Perform. Get your payday.

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09-23-2013, 11:31 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post

You don't care about the team. You care about Stepan. That doesn't make you a Rangers fan.
I've seen this a lot the past few years. Some fans root for individual players instead of or at the expense of team. It's happened with Kreider, Zuccarrello, and now Stepan to a lesser extent.

The best case scenario for the team and the fans is for Sather and Stepan to reach an agreement ASAP. Rooting for Stepan to continue to go unsigned in the hope that the Rangers fall flat on their face is just silly and counterproductive to what is best for the team.

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09-23-2013, 11:35 AM
  #31
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I've seen this a lot the past few years. Some fans root for individual players instead of or at the expense of team. It's happened with Kreider, Zuccarrello, and now Stepan to a lesser extent.

The best case scenario for the team and the fans is for Sather and Stepan to reach an agreement ASAP. Rooting for Stepan to continue to go unsigned in the hope that the Rangers fall flat on their face is just silly and counterproductive to what is best for the team.
It's insulting to the real fans of the team, like most of us here. Who roots for the team to struggle? I mean, even the haters who have issues with Sather, or a coach, don't take it to that extent.

The real fans want what's best for the team. The wannabe's only care about their guy.

Rangersbaby.. He should edit his name to Stepanbaby.

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09-23-2013, 11:49 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
A disgrace? That is a ****ing RIDICULOUS statement. Grow up, kid.


The problem isn't hating on a guy for trying to get his money. The problem here is that you're looking at a guy with no available options other than an offer-sheet who is on a ticking clock. The problem is him looking at this situation thinking he has an A)upper hand or B)the leverage to be able to miss games when he isn't getting paid and is on a tryout for team usa. The futility of the situation is what is so maddening. It's essentially like he's banging his head against the wall over and over again. The situation is what it is. Accept it and move on.
You are ridiculous. You clearly agree he is the one in the wrong since he has no leverage, yet you bash me for using that word??

Stepan deserves every bit of bashing he gets on this board for the reasons you yourself mentioned and more. Hes fighting over 500K (really 300, cause Rangers will go to 3.2) missing camp with a new system, etc etc for no good reason.

I just took another small step to use the word "disgrace"

Simmer down. Its just a word, sport.

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09-23-2013, 11:52 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Fire Sather View Post
You are ridiculous. You clearly agree he is the one in the wrong since he has no leverage, yet you bash me for using that word??

Stepan deserves every bit of bashing he gets on this board for the reasons you yourself mentioned and more. Hes fighting over 500K (really 300, cause Rangers will go to 3.2) missing camp with a new system, etc etc for no good reason.

I just took another small step to use the word "disgrace"

Simmer down. Its just a word, sport.
Calling someone a "disgrace" is not a small step. It's a large step in one direction kid. One that doesn't belong in a discussion about a hockey player negotiating his contract.

You didn't understand a thing I wrote, and of course I'm not surprised about that.

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09-23-2013, 11:52 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Why wasn't this an issue with the oh-so many other RFA's Sather has signed over the years?

3.2 is squeezing? For a player who's had a 1/2 season of 1C production and isn't arbitration eligible?

The Mercs have paid their dues. They're ****ing entitled to the overpayment necessary to sign them. Stepan hasn't done **** to ask for a penny over 3M.

Sign the bridge deal. Perform. Get your payday.
For me it has always been an issue. It was an issue with Callahan, Dubinsky and to a lesser extent Anisimov. I have stated time and again that while I understand why Sather has done this, I'm of the belief that just because you CAN, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

And while I would agree that the mercs have paid their dues, they have done so with other organizations, I could are less what they have done for OTHER teams. Aside from Gaborik, the reputation of the Rangers being a destination of where mercs come to retire is not erased by one UFA signing.

Stepan has out-performed the contract he had. He's gotten better and better for three straight seasons (no sophmore slump).

He's going to be the teams #1 center, if there is a case to be made for bucking the trend of bridge deals this one is it.

The ONLY reason Stepan hasn't been signed for more than 4 per (because HE'S MORE THAN EARNED THAT) is due to the CBA. The Rangers are not bound to tighten the purse strings here. They are making a concious decision here to say that while we know that you deserve more, under the terms of the CBA we are not obligated to pay you more therefore take this and shut up.

I think it's a screwed up way to treat the home grown players. players that have made their bones with other organizations get better treatment than the home grown guys and I find that more than a little f'ked up

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09-23-2013, 11:56 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
It's insulting to the real fans of the team, like most of us here. Who roots for the team to struggle? I mean, even the haters who have issues with Sather, or a coach, don't take it to that extent.

The real fans want what's best for the team. The wannabe's only care about their guy.

Rangersbaby.. He should edit his name to Stepanbaby.
I don't know about that.

Not so much for Renney but there were some real anti-Torts people. And there are without a doubt posters who would see the Rangers fold if it meant Sather lost his job.

When you add arrogance to incompetence it makes people go bananas.

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09-23-2013, 11:58 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Championship View Post
Calling someone a "disgrace" is not a small step. It's a large step in one direction kid.

You didn't understand a thing I wrote, and of course I'm not surprised about that.
Oh but I did. I understood everything, I always do.

I think its YOU that doesn't understand, sport.

The bottom line is that he has no ability to get more money elsewhere (offer sheet is not coming) and hes putting himself first because the team has a new coach and a new system that he is not learning by refusing to get in camp. The UFA's earned the right to be paid more than he is. It doesn't matter that hes better than Brad Richards. Hes not getting 3.5M if the Rangers don't want to give it to him, simple as that.

The more games he misses, the more I want him on the 3rd line behind Brass and Richie when the season starts. He can play his way back up.

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09-23-2013, 12:05 PM
  #37
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Some of you need to go outside and get some fresh air.

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09-23-2013, 12:15 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
And while I would agree that the mercs have paid their dues, they have done so with other organizations, I could are less what they have done for OTHER teams. Aside from Gaborik, the reputation of the Rangers being a destination of where mercs come to retire is not erased by one UFA signing.
The problem there is that we are bidding against other teams. Like it or not, that drives the price up. I'd rather we stay away from the big name UFAs. We do better with the cheaper, bargain bin guys. But if we are going to sign players like Gaborik, Richards, Gomez, etc., we are going to end up paying more than they are worth in most cases. It's just the nature of the economic system.

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Stepan has out-performed the contract he had. He's gotten better and better for three straight seasons (no sophmore slump).
He has, and we want him to continue to do so. If he's making less, that means we can spend that other money elsewhere and potentially have a better team overall. You can argue how well Sather spends that extra money, but the fact remains that for a team to win, it helps to have players who outplay their contract.

Quote:
The ONLY reason Stepan hasn't been signed for more than 4 per (because HE'S MORE THAN EARNED THAT) is due to the CBA. The Rangers are not bound to tighten the purse strings here. They are making a concious decision here to say that while we know that you deserve more, under the terms of the CBA we are not obligated to pay you more therefore take this and shut up.
I don't think it's a CBA thing at all. Sather and company decided before free agency even began that Stepan was getting a 2 year deal. If he had wanted to give him a long term deal, he would have made sure he had enough cap space to do so. If you are trying to make the argument that Stepan deserves more than 4 mil per year on a 2 year deal, you couldn't be more wrong.

Quote:
I think it's a screwed up way to treat the home grown players. players that have made their bones with other organizations get better treatment than the home grown guys and I find that more than a little f'ked up
I completely disagree with this. Sather isn't treating Stepan poorly. If Stepan had put up 30 points last year, would you be saying this? Was Hagelin treated poorly because he only got a 2 year deal? UFAs get paid because they have all the leverage. That's just business 101. It has nothing to do with how the organizations treat their players.

Did toronto mistreat Kadri by giving him 2.9 per for 2 years after giving Bozak 21 mil over 5 years? No. That's the way the system works in every sport, particularly sports that have a salary cap. The agents understand this. The players understand this. That doesn't mean they aren't going to try to get every penny they can.

I don't blame Stepan and his agent for trying to get the best deal possible, but lets stop casting him as the victim here. At 3.2 per year, he'll be getting more than anyone but Duchene.

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09-23-2013, 12:19 PM
  #39
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Take a step back, guys.

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09-23-2013, 12:20 PM
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I do enjoy the irony of busting out a famous quote to call someone a fool and mangling it so badly as to make it absolutely nonsensical.

...In a post which has since been deleted. Well crap.

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09-23-2013, 12:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
For me it has always been an issue. It was an issue with Callahan, Dubinsky and to a lesser extent Anisimov. I have stated time and again that while I understand why Sather has done this, I'm of the belief that just because you CAN, doesn't mean that you SHOULD.

And while I would agree that the mercs have paid their dues, they have done so with other organizations, I could are less what they have done for OTHER teams. Aside from Gaborik, the reputation of the Rangers being a destination of where mercs come to retire is not erased by one UFA signing.

Stepan has out-performed the contract he had. He's gotten better and better for three straight seasons (no sophmore slump).

He's going to be the teams #1 center, if there is a case to be made for bucking the trend of bridge deals this one is it.

The ONLY reason Stepan hasn't been signed for more than 4 per (because HE'S MORE THAN EARNED THAT) is due to the CBA. The Rangers are not bound to tighten the purse strings here. They are making a concious decision here to say that while we know that you deserve more, under the terms of the CBA we are not obligated to pay you more therefore take this and shut up.

I think it's a screwed up way to treat the home grown players. players that have made their bones with other organizations get better treatment than the home grown guys and I find that more than a little f'ked up
I remember Dubinsky loud and clear. I don't remember Callahan or Anisimov being as much of an issue. What did Sather do in those cases that it was an issue?

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09-23-2013, 12:33 PM
  #42
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Stepan - issue for consideration

I feel like people are misinterpreting many ofSather' actions to be shortsighted or anti-Stepan (or to carry it further, anti-homegrown talet). I would suggest instead that the negotiations with Stepan are a product of several circumstaces and have very little to do with Stepan himself. Conside three items I have read people alude to repeatedly in this discussion: 1. Keeping Brad Richards, 2. McD's new contract, and 3. Non extending Callahan, Girardi or Lundquist yet.

1. Keeping Brad Richards. Clearly, Sather looked at the UFA Cs available and compared them to the option of keeping Richards and decided to keep Richards (and his $6.7mm cap hit) rather than buy him out. Sather still has the option to buy out Richards next year, at which point he will know a lot more about several things: a) Richards ability to contribute, b) the '14-'15 cap level, c) the status of our other prospects, d) the UFA pool, and e) the impact of injuries on the rest of our team and thus the Rangers needs. There is plenty of debate about this decision, but in the end we effectively have a proven (if diminished) C on a one-year deal at a $6.67mm cap hold.

2. McD signing. Sather seems to, by the posts of most people here, done a good job signing McD to a longr-term contract. However, Sather did not have much choice here, and not much to play for. With arbitration rights, McD was going to get a much larger contract for '13-'14. There was nothing Sather could do to control the cap hit from McD, so he was best off finding a way to extend his years of control over McD while potentially imrovingthe longer-term cap management.

3. Lack of extensions for Callahan, Girardi and Lundquist. Sather does not know the cap yet for '14-'15. He cannot be careless with the Rangers' cap space on a forward basis. And he doesn't yet know what he is going to do with Richards (a swing of $6.7mm on the cap). It would be terrible franchise management to just give all these guys what they want right now. And let's be honest - it is unlikely their asking prices are going to change much between now and the end of this season. I would expect Sather will be looking to lock-up Lundquist and Callahan either during the season or immediately after. With no cap room right now, it makes sense for the focus to be on managing this season's roster.

So how does this all relate to Stepan? As follows:
Becuase of #1, there is not that much room under the cap. Sather is constrained on what he can do now. He cannot offer a long-term contract that is "fair value" for Stepan without breaking the cap. Because of #2, Sather has more control over what Stepan can be paid in the near term. He basically has to use this leverage to squeeze Stepan in order to get a full team on the ice this season. If you look at the lineup, there is not that much "dead money", where if you waived a player now you would pick up that much space without sacrificing quality with the replacement. Because of that, he is trying to offer a reasonable contract to manage the cap and get Stepan in the door, with the expectation that Stepan will sign a longer term deal at some point during the '14-'15 season (after Sather has decided what the impacts are of potential new contracts for Callahan, Girardi and Lundquist). Like the others mentioned in #3, now is not the time for Sather to commit so much salary for the long tem.

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09-23-2013, 12:40 PM
  #43
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That is not really even what bothers me, Rangers are missing the boat. The cap is going up, McD good deal, they got that one right, if they were to sign him in 2, 3, 4 years he's going to get way more. Same for Stepan. Rangers long term thinking is off in this occasion. They are focused on leverage, they should be focused on why they are trying to use it in the first place.

If they want to set a precedence, how about one that signs their players before they have to. Not saying all of the players, but the ones who have proven to be consistent, which Stepan has. How about one that gets their only hope of winning signed, Lundqvist before that absolutely has to be done? Or their captain, or Girardi or Stralman?

Rangers have set a precedence already, it goes something like, Everyone waits until we sign UFAs, must shop first. Then we'll get around to the RFAs with arbitration rights. Then we'll scour the league for what we think are bargains. Then finally the RFAs without arbitration rights, they'll just have to take whatever is leftover. Yet they want Stepan to believe if he signs a bridge deal they are going to extend him before they have to, before they go through this whole process again, twice, and they'll have the cap space to do so? Yeah right.
Agree 100%.

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09-23-2013, 12:49 PM
  #44
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The worst part about this whole thing may not even be the prospect of Stepan missing games. It's the fact that everyone is gonna be *****ing about this all season. As soon as a rut kicks in this board is gonna **** on the guy.

It'll be Brad Richards all over again if he plays badly

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09-23-2013, 12:50 PM
  #45
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This has a lot of parallels in common with the lockout.

But chiefly, both situations had 2 sides that dug into their positions late in the game when the failure to reach a resolution benefits nobody.

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09-23-2013, 12:51 PM
  #46
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The worst part about this whole thing may not even be the prospect of Stepan missing games. It's the fact that everyone is gonna be *****ing about this all season. As soon as a rut kicks in this board is gonna **** on the guy.

It'll be Brad Richards all over again if he plays badly
Hey, at least you'll have a quicker way of spotting the idiots.

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09-23-2013, 12:57 PM
  #47
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The worst part about this whole thing may not even be the prospect of Stepan missing games. It's the fact that everyone is gonna be *****ing about this all season. As soon as a rut kicks in this board is gonna **** on the guy.

It'll be Brad Richards all over again if he plays badly
Going to be Brandon Dubinsky all over again. Some stubborn fans never let that go.

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09-23-2013, 01:18 PM
  #48
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Stepans consistency is being overstated.

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09-23-2013, 01:25 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Off Sides View Post
Rangers have set a precedence already, it goes something like, Everyone waits until we sign UFAs, must shop first. Then we'll get around to the RFAs with arbitration rights. Then we'll scour the league for what we think are bargains. Then finally the RFAs without arbitration rights, they'll just have to take whatever is leftover. Yet they want Stepan to believe if he signs a bridge deal they are going to extend him before they have to, before they go through this whole process again, twice, and they'll have the cap space to do so? Yeah right.
The Rangers have never, ever had to give the RFAs "what's left" under the salary cap. What makes you think they're going to have to do that in the future? Every year, we hear about how the Rangers cap issues. Every year, we resign our RFAs, bring in the UFAs and are able to add pieces at the deadline.

The Rangers have the cap space to sign Stepan to a 4 or 5 year deal. They don't want to. It's a big difference.

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09-23-2013, 01:33 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
The Rangers have never, ever had to give the RFAs "what's left" under the salary cap. What makes you think they're going to have to do that in the future? Every year, we hear about how the Rangers cap issues. Every year, we resign our RFAs, bring in the UFAs and are able to add pieces at the deadline.

The Rangers have the cap space to sign Stepan to a 4 or 5 year deal. They don't want to. It's a big difference.
Many have been saying the Rangers were on the verge of entering "cap hell" since 2007. Still waiting for the cap-ocalypse people were predicting.

Its almost as if some people just want to hoard cap space for some undetermined time in the future.

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