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9/22/13 Chicago @ Detroit - 5:00 p.m. highlights post# 243

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09-23-2013, 11:07 PM
  #276
WingedWheel1987
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Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
Based on this Danny Cleary should be playing first line minutes
I would imagine the fact that his regular season was 90% abysmal is all you need to know. For some reason the guy played well against the Ducks every time he played them and the Wings drew the Ducks in the first round. I think the reason for that is because the Ducks top six isn't as defensively responsible which allows players like Gator to look competent. You put Gator against defensively responsible forwards and everything falls apart. I personally believe the Ducks were the exact type of bad team that benefits from lockout shortened seasons and they were overall an inferior team compared to the Wings. Before and after they played them in the playoffs.

Side note

I am expecting the Jackets to have a train wreck season.

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09-23-2013, 11:08 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Abby playing with Datsyuk didn't work last year. Giving Abby another elite center so he is allowed to stay in the top six is mind boggling.

"He may not be a top six forward." Understatement of the year. He isn't a top six forward. He is a 4th line grinder.

I firmly believe Gator will top out at 18ish goals. I know others disagree, but his offensive IQ is abysmal and his shot isn't even good. Franzen is lazy, but he has the talent to score goals. Working hard and not having the talent does not equal success. You value the fact that he works hard, but his hard work doesn't translate into success. Darren Helm is the best example. Works his *** off when he is on the ice and it would take an act from every God ever invented for him to put up 15-20 goals in one season.

Playing Gator on the top line reeks of organizational hubris. "We are the Red Wings and we can make anything work."
No amount of lotion and exfoliation could ever make Darren Helm's hands soft hah

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09-23-2013, 11:14 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
I would imagine the fact that his regular season was 90% abysmal is all you need to know. For some reason the guy played well against the Ducks every time he played them and the Wings drew the Ducks in the first round. I think the reason for that is because the Ducks top six isn't as defensively responsible which allows players like Gator to look competent. You put Gator against defensively responsible forwards and everything falls apart. I personally believe the Ducks were the exact type of bad team that benefits form lockout shortened seasons and they were overall an inferior team compared to the Wings. Before and after they played them in the playoffs.
What I was getting at is; Bob made a point to say Gator got worse in the playoffs. Well, Cleary was one of the Red Wings best players in the playoffs. So based on that, Cleary should get first line minutes.

I'm not trying to make Gator out to be some God send and answer for the top 6. Just let it play out and see how it works. People may be surprised. Datsyuk has said he likes playing with a "big body" so it's either Gator, Franzen or Bertuzzi. I'm rolling the dice with Gator. Franzen is lazy as **** and Bertuzzi walks with a cane.

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09-23-2013, 11:18 PM
  #279
WingedWheel1987
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Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
What I was getting at is; Bob made a point to say Gator got worse in the playoffs. Well, Cleary was one of the Red Wings best players in the playoffs. So based on that, Cleary should get first line minutes.

I'm not trying to make Gator out to be some God send and answer for the top 6. Just let it play out and see how it works. People may be surprised. Datsyuk has said he likes playing with a "big body" so it's either Gator, Franzen or Bertuzzi. I'm rolling the dice with Gator. Franzen is lazy as **** and Bertuzzi walks with a cane.
I personally thought the Cleary we saw on the ice was not indicative of what he did on the stat sheet.

He looked like a far worse player than what the stats show.

I would agree that Gator got worse in the playoffs. He played a crappy Ducks team and in the next round he played a team that is far more defensively responsible and the Hawks completely focused on making Datsyuk uncomfortable and prevented him from making any plays. This is bad news for Gator since he can't generate any offense. When you have a player on a line who's production only exists because of somebody else, it allows the opposing team to shut down two players for the price of one.

I will just pretend that Gator actually has any positive qualities for the sake of this example. If Datsyuk's line can't generate any offense or cycle the puck, what good is a puck retrieving, nose for the net winger with a touch of physicality?

Just to clarify, i do not agree with the last statement i made. It was just used to argue why Gator is so useless. His perceived positive qualities aren't even useful because his negative traits far outweigh his positive traits.

The Hawks series had several moments where it reminded me of the Nashville series. After the Wings third line stopped producing, the wheels fell off because the Wings top six turned into a one line team. It's been the primary reason why the Wings have struggled since 2009-2010 and this last season was the first time i actually thought the Wings actually had 2-3 scoring lines on any given night.

Holland basically built a team prior to last season that he hoped the top six would heat up for a 15-20 game stretch and carry a team with two 4th lines.


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09-23-2013, 11:27 PM
  #280
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He can leave generating offense to Zetterberg and Datsyuk. All he has to do is crash corners, cycle, sit in front of the net and clean up garbage e.g. Holmstrom e.g. ZDH line.

If it doesn't work you hope Tatar or Alfredsson get a shot playing with them

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09-24-2013, 12:33 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
Based on this Danny Cleary should be playing first line minutes
If you wish to extrapolate that opinion based on Cleary's stats -- be my guest

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09-24-2013, 12:37 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
What I was getting at is; Bob made a point to say Gator got worse in the playoffs. Well, Cleary was one of the Red Wings best players in the playoffs. So based on that, Cleary should get first line minutes.

I'm not trying to make Gator out to be some God send and answer for the top 6. Just let it play out and see how it works. People may be surprised. Datsyuk has said he likes playing with a "big body" so it's either Gator, Franzen or Bertuzzi. I'm rolling the dice with Gator. Franzen is lazy as **** and Bertuzzi walks with a cane.
Why role the dice with a guy who could barely cut it as a fourth liner when you have guys who have a high likelihood of working?

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09-24-2013, 05:41 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
Why role the dice with a guy who could barely cut it as a fourth liner when you have guys who have a high likelihood of working?
Get youth and agitation ability on the 1st line. It hasn't looked "rolling the dice" kind of plan. They have been ultimately most productive line so far. Why break something that seems to be working?

At earlier years, Homer complimented the line well, when he was older and Z&D were younger. Now Z&D are older and AKader brings a younger legs and the same role player there.

With Bertuzzi, Cleary or Franzen it would be only a line of old goats. Andersson could give another option of young screener/worker there. But we need him more at center than Abdelkader, so it's now Kader there.

I liked how Abdelkader agitated Crosby in the Pens-meeting. That Z-D-Ab will be very very hard to play against at next season. Selke-Selke-Agitator -line.

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