HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Winnipeg Jets
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Pre-Season: Jets @ Oilers | Mon, Sep 23 | 8:30PM

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-24-2013, 03:13 AM
  #426
garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
 
garret9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 12,986
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyosama View Post
Could you help me a bit with my understanding of the Corsi?

From what I understand the Corsi is kind of like a +/- of shots. Every shot taken by your team when you're on the ice is a + and every shot against is a -.

If this is correct, then I can't imagine that it would be a very reliable indicator of how Frolik and Kane play, as they are both notoriously known for throwing absolutely everything on net regardless of whether it's a good chance or not. Jokinen also plays this way. It seems like one of those things where in some situations, like Clitsome vs Yakupov, it would be very impressive to have the number that he did, but in other situations it's not very representative of what's actually going on on the ice.

This isn't saying Kane and Frolik had a bad games by any means, all I'm saying is that if I understand the system correctly it won't matter how Kane actually plays, he'll be a + player the vast majority of the time.
Well history has shown that to be wrong as Kane has been consistently very negative with some players and very positive with others, he was close to even over the whole season last year. Ovechkin is also known for throwing the puck and has been negative for the last few years.

If you throw away the puck and the other team gets it right away to go to your end and then pins you in than its not really going to add up even if Kane shoots as much as he can.

Against Yakupov works really well actually as the whole Oilers did not get ONE single shot attempt in the entire game (for 5v5) while Yakupov was on the ice.

garret9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 03:30 AM
  #427
knorthern knight
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: GTA
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,656
vCash: 595
Addition by subtraction... send Jokinen and Wright to the AHL, and the Jets are guaranteed a playoff spot.

knorthern knight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 07:09 AM
  #428
YWGinYYZ
Global Moderator
.
 
YWGinYYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,513
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aavco Cup View Post
Kane made the two best feeds of the night. One backhand to Frolik in front and one to Joker. I'm not sure what Lawless was watching?
He was watching his narrative.

YWGinYYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 07:11 AM
  #429
EKANE9JETS
Registered User
 
EKANE9JETS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,075
vCash: 452
i like how everyone used the lawless (who loves kane) tweet as an opportunity to **** on Kane. He was the best jest last night and his ice time reflected as much. he's 22. i dislike how posters on here act as though there is zero room for improvement in his game unlike all the other youngsters in the league. i like what ive seen from kane so far this pre-season. far better than bogo, and joker anyway. leave kane alone..

EKANE9JETS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 07:14 AM
  #430
HannuJ
Registered User
 
HannuJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronno
Posts: 1,917
vCash: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
Very interesting game from a statistical angle.

http://www.arcticicehockey.com/2013/...-2-corsi-table

Kane played well and pulled his line up.
Yakupov was shut down.
Clitsome played a high events game.
Trouba did very well.
Any line Wright goes on ends up getting shell shocked as usual.
Stuart and Redmond pair got bent over a few times.
can you email these stats to Claude Noel? assuming he uses email?

or maybe write them on a pack of lozenges and post them to him? or a recipe card that he can tuck into the left inner pocket of his blazer?

HannuJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 07:16 AM
  #431
YWGinYYZ
Global Moderator
.
 
YWGinYYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,513
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by EKANE9JETS View Post
i like how everyone used the lawless (who loves kane) tweet as an opportunity to **** on Kane. He was the best jest last night and his ice time reflected as much. he's 22. i dislike how posters on here act as though there is zero room for improvement in his game unlike all the other youngsters in the league. i like what ive seen from kane so far this pre-season. far better than bogo, and joker anyway. leave kane alone..
Are you reacting to my post? If so, re-read it.

YWGinYYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 07:49 AM
  #432
ps241
It's closing time.
 
ps241's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 13,652
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by EKANE9JETS View Post
i like how everyone used the lawless (who loves kane) tweet as an opportunity to **** on Kane. He was the best jest last night and his ice time reflected as much. he's 22. i dislike how posters on here act as though there is zero room for improvement in his game unlike all the other youngsters in the league. i like what ive seen from kane so far this pre-season. far better than bogo, and joker anyway. leave kane alone..
I am stuck on an island (literally) without TV and reading this thread to find our about the game. Based on what the posters are saying it appears Kane was clearly the best Jet on the Ice by a large margin. Kane like every Jet has his critics but he has been hands down the "fan MVP" of the preseason.

ps241 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 07:56 AM
  #433
YWGinYYZ
Global Moderator
.
 
YWGinYYZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,513
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ps241 View Post
I am stuck on an island (literally) without TV and reading this thread to find our about the game. Based on what the posters are saying it appears Kane was clearly the best Jet on the Ice by a large margin. Kane like every Jet has his critics but he has been hands down the "fan MVP" of the preseason.
The Big Show guys suggested this morning that he should get a letter - I wouldn't be opposed to that at all. Kane is consistently the hardest working Jet out on the ice.

YWGinYYZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 07:56 AM
  #434
broinwhyteridge
Registered User
 
broinwhyteridge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,694
vCash: 1070
Quote:
Originally Posted by puck stoppa View Post
I'm marking this date are we agreeing
Time for Lotto Max.

broinwhyteridge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 08:25 AM
  #435
jimmycrackcorn
HFBoards Sponsor
 
jimmycrackcorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,524
vCash: 500
A few thoughts on the game last night:

Lowry is going to force the Jets to make a difficult decision. For his first ever game he looked pretty damned good. Love the way he takes the body. And he's bigger than I thought.

Trouba had his 3rd exhibition game yesterday. He looks so poised out there. He was making a lot of great passes up ice. Was he perfect? No. But I stand by what I've been saying ever since I saw him in July at the rookie camp. No Rock for this kid.

I think Joker is done.

Very underwhelmed with Bogo so far this pre-season. Hopefully his injury is just day-to-day and can turn things around quickly.

Kane has been our best player in pre-season. Sure appears to be the hardest working player too...

Clitsome has been steady and solid. I'm happy for him and think he will have a good season with the added confidence the Jets have shown him with the contract.

Will be an interesting week ahead to see who they keep and who they send down

jimmycrackcorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 08:47 AM
  #436
sipowicz
The Original
 
sipowicz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,055
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
A few thoughts on the game last night:

Lowry is going to force the Jets to make a difficult decision. For his first ever game he looked pretty damned good. Love the way he takes the body. And he's bigger than I thought.

Trouba had his 3rd exhibition game yesterday. He looks so poised out there. He was making a lot of great passes up ice. Was he perfect? No. But I stand by what I've been saying ever since I saw him in July at the rookie camp. No Rock for this kid.

I think Joker is done.

Very underwhelmed with Bogo so far this pre-season. Hopefully his injury is just day-to-day and can turn things around quickly.

Kane has been our best player in pre-season. Sure appears to be the hardest working player too...

Clitsome has been steady and solid. I'm happy for him and think he will have a good season with the added confidence the Jets have shown him with the contract.

Will be an interesting week ahead to see who they keep and who they send down

Pretty much everything, Kane has been the best Jets in the games he played

Bogo seems to be stalled at his 2012 level or below, think guys like Trouba will soon pass him

Jokinen looks like a marginal AHL player trying to crack an NHL roster, he really is DONE

sipowicz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 09:04 AM
  #437
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
A few thoughts on the game last night:

Lowry is going to force the Jets to make a difficult decision. For his first ever game he looked pretty damned good. Love the way he takes the body. And he's bigger than I thought.

Trouba had his 3rd exhibition game yesterday. He looks so poised out there. He was making a lot of great passes up ice. Was he perfect? No. But I stand by what I've been saying ever since I saw him in July at the rookie camp. No Rock for this kid.

I think Joker is done.

Very underwhelmed with Bogo so far this pre-season. Hopefully his injury is just day-to-day and can turn things around quickly.

Kane has been our best player in pre-season. Sure appears to be the hardest working player too...

Clitsome has been steady and solid. I'm happy for him and think he will have a good season with the added confidence the Jets have shown him with the contract.

Will be an interesting week ahead to see who they keep and who they send down
I didn't mind Lowry's game but IMO he didn't look close to ready and its an easy decision to send him down. The guy needs to learn to play with the puck on his stick at this level and well he barely touched the puck last game and when he did he was slow and a bit unsure what to do with it.

What I liked is that he finished his checks and was in pretty good position most of the time.


On the Jokinin front, what ever happened to his shot? He used to have a very hard/strong shot but its looked about league average all preseason .

surixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 09:16 AM
  #438
jimmycrackcorn
HFBoards Sponsor
 
jimmycrackcorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,524
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I didn't mind Lowry's game but IMO he didn't look close to ready and its an easy decision to send him down. The guy needs to learn to play with the puck on his stick at this level and well he barely touched the puck last game and when he did he was slow and a bit unsure what to do with it.
We'll have to agree to disagree. While he may not be quite ready - I don't agree that "he didn't look close to ready".

I think with his size, physicality and positional play, Lowry is closer to being ready than anyone would have imagined a month ago.

Gump - you there? Help me out man

jimmycrackcorn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 09:18 AM
  #439
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by han316 View Post
he's right.

Kane doesn't make any player on the ice better and neither does jokinen. Probably why they suck together.

Been saying that about Kane from day 1 and it's why he so desperately needs a playmaker to centre him.
His passing ability would look a lot better if his linemates actually went to the net front to collect his passes. That is what worked in the one game where we saw Kane-Scheifele-Gooch. That is also why Welly produced on his line.

Gooch is inconsistent and can be a ghost at times, but he is good at collecting garbage in the crease.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 09:23 AM
  #440
surixon
Registered User
 
surixon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,223
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree. While he may not be quite ready - I don't agree that "he didn't look close to ready".

I think with his size, physicality and positional play, Lowry is closer to being ready than anyone would have imagined a month ago.

Gump - you there? Help me out man
I guess the question is what do you want him to become. If your OK with a fourth or third line guy then sure he probably could stick and not look out of place in that type of role. However if you want him to hopefully develop into a potential top 6 option then he needs time to develop those aspects of his game as they are underdeveloped for this level.

I think its an easy call because the org likely views him long term has a decent number two or a high end number 3 and both are more easily accomplished through additional seasoning.

Its also not like the Jets don't have a number of players that can fill the fourth line role in the short term.

surixon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 09:23 AM
  #441
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,563
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
We'll have to agree to disagree. While he may not be quite ready - I don't agree that "he didn't look close to ready".

I think with his size, physicality and positional play, Lowry is closer to being ready than anyone would have imagined a month ago.

Gump - you there? Help me out man
I don't think Lowry has a real shot at making the team right now.

He is still really raw at centre and he really needs to work on his draws.

The team will be patient with him.

Big AHL minutes and lots of repetition will serve him well.

Curious to see how long it take him to make that next step.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 09:26 AM
  #442
Donald
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 263
vCash: 500
Wow, such doom and gloom after a preseason game.

Bogosian has gone from a budding superstar to having his development completely stalled... after a couple exhibition games?

And good grief, Jokinen was one of the Jets best players offensively yesterday. He almost always sucks, so it should be easier for people to notice when he actually has a good game.

Donald is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 09:28 AM
  #443
Gump Hasek
Spleen Merchant
 
Gump Hasek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: 222 Tudor Terrace
Posts: 8,343
vCash: 1200
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycrackcorn View Post
Gump - you there? Help me out man
Well, I think he played very well personally but am also quite sure the plan is to give him some time in the A, so I'll be surprised if he gets much more of a look here over the near-term.

I noticed a poster last night said he looked slow. Big guys with long gaits to their skating stride often appear slow relative to smaller guys whose legs must move faster in order to cover the same amount of ground. Heck, even Mario Lemieux appeared to be skating slowly from afar at times, but when you saw him up close you realized he was actually moving at a quick pace.

I didn't think Lowry looked slow at all last night. I thought he was physical and was always in his proper place on the ice and that is all one can ask of a player in his first game; in fact, that is exactly how they asked him to play prior to the game and is why Noel was raving about his play after the game. I just think that his unfortunately timed injury will serve to prevent him from probably getting a fair chance to stick right away.

Gump Hasek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 09:49 AM
  #444
allan5oh
Adv stats blowhard
 
allan5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 8,152
vCash: 50
My take:

We actually played a decent game. Lots of shots on net, nothing seemed to go in. Our PP is vastly improved, I hope this continues. We were actually using a standard umbrella scheme. Puck movement needs to be quicker. As for players:

Kane/Jokinen/Frolik had a completely dominant game, too bad they didn't put one in. Frolik is going to be a beauty. Was very impressed with his game, he's very good at keeping the play alive 5v5. His PK is outstanding, good reads, good angles, good timing. Also great at the PP. He's going to be a steal for us. I was also impressed with Jokinen, he looked very comfortable out there. Kane was pure beastmode, you gotta love the effort from this guy. He needs to learn to go after his own rebounds, more than a couple juicy plays he gave up on after his shot.

Lowry - What can I say about this kid? First "NHL" game and he looked very good. He seemed to be doing all the things coaches love, backchecking with purpose, supporting the puck, supporting the breakout, playing a simple game with the puck, etc.. You can tell he's a very smart player, and is very coachable. There's a reason Noel talked about him.

Clitsome and Trouba - Both had outstanding games judging by their corsi. I think these are two players that will take a huge role for us this year. Looking forward to see what they can do this year.

Bogosian and Stuart - Both seemed lost, Stuart was forcing some very weird breakout passes.

Redmond - definite rust to his game, but at least he wasn't trying to do too much.

Gordon - seemed somewhat invisible, don't remember much

Halischuk - Gotta love the hustle of this guy, will be someone to watch.

Peluso, Wright - I don't see these guys being NHLers for very long. They offer very little. The sooner Noel realizes this, the better.

Pardy - Had a decent game

O'Dell - Made some good moves, but also made some sloppy mistakes. I like his game, someone to watch. Seems to have improved his foot speed.

Cormier - Had a decent game

Others I can't comment much on. Didn't see Telegin very much at all, and Thorburn is Thorburn.

Pasquale - he seems to have a very weird playing style, it's almost as if he picks a random save for what should be a routine save, just to mix it up. Seems to move the puck decent.

allan5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 09:54 AM
  #445
Howard Chuck
HFBoards Sponsor
 
Howard Chuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Well, I think he played very well personally but am also quite sure the plan is to give him some time in the A, so I'll be surprised if he gets much more of a look here over the near-term.

I noticed a poster last night said he looked slow. Big guys with long gaits to their skating stride often appear slow relative to smaller guys whose legs must move faster in order to cover the same amount of ground. Heck, even Mario Lemieux appeared to be skating slowly from afar at times, but when you saw him up close you realized he was actually moving at a quick pace.

I didn't think Lowry looked slow at all last night. I thought he was physical and was always in his proper place on the ice and that is all one can ask of a player in his first game; in fact, that is exactly how they asked him to play prior to the game and is why Noel was raving about his play after the game. I just think that his unfortunately timed injury will serve to prevent him from probably getting a fair chance to stick right away.
I really liked Lowry and agree that he played exactly how they wanted him to play. Good player, great listener and very mature for his age. He's also HUGE!

Howard Chuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 10:32 AM
  #446
truck
HFB Partner
 
truck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,563
vCash: 500
Career 5 on 5 Corsi %:
Wright – 42.3
Hali – 42.9

Wright, Hali vs the Wild - 35% (Scheif at centre)
Wright, Hali vs the Oil - 36%, 40% (O'Dell at centre)

Historically Hali has scored enough to overcome poor possession numbers.
Wright is a well earned career minus and continues to drag down linemates.

#GoodAtDefense

I am hopeful that Hali can mesh with some OK line mates, score and live up to 3rd line billing.
I would rather not see Wright in anything other than a 4th line role and I'd rather see Tanger or Cormier.

truck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 12:32 PM
  #447
Bob E
Registered User
 
Bob E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Winnerpeg
Posts: 4,454
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Donald View Post
Wow, such doom and gloom after a preseason game.

Bogosian has gone from a budding superstar to having his development completely stalled... after a couple exhibition games?

And good grief, Jokinen was one of the Jets best players offensively yesterday. He almost always sucks, so it should be easier for people to notice when he actually has a good game.
Agree, Donald.

Not too worried about Bogo, imo, he'll find his grove once the season starts. He may never be a Norris candidate, but he can match up against the other team's best, and is very hard to play against. That's an important guy on this team. And with a full roster of NHL guys in the line-up to play with, I think (hope) we'll see a better Bogo once the season starts. Don't think we should read too much into the pre-season with regular NHL players, as they are working out the kinks.

It's also too early to say Trouba will be an important player for the jets this season, but I've been impressed with his game and defensive play. When he gets physically mature, over the next couple of years, he'll be a beast. Could be our best pk'er so far, and coaches seem pretty comfortable using him in all situations. But regular season is much different than pre-season. I think he sticks, over Redmond, but let's see how he does when the real bullets fly. If he plays as well then, as he is now, then I'd say he's a keeper for the season.

And Olli did fine last night. That line of Kane-Olli-Frolik was pretty good actually, imo. Now Oil had a lot of guys out, but they went up against Smid and/or Ference a fair bit, so they weren't against AHL'ers all night.

To start the season, it might make sense to pair Scheifele with Seto, and Olli with Frolik, and have Kane play with whichever pairing is 'going' on any given night. He seems to play equally well with Seto or Frolik, atm. Though Scheif might be playing better than Olli, you just never know what Noel will do. Noel likely would use Wright as the other LW'er, to complete the top 9.

Then, after a few games, Kane might develop better chemistry with one group over the other, but now its fairly close, imo.

Ideally, Lowry (for me) would be the other LW'er switching with Kane, but that's a year away likely. Oh, that, and the fact Jets brass wants him to be a 6'5 physical, center.

Food for thought.

Bob E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 01:10 PM
  #448
VictoriaJetsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyosama View Post
Not to mention Duchene and Ekman-Larsson.
Would I trade Kane straight up for Tavares? Yes

for Hedman? don't know

for Duchene? no

for Ekman-Larson? yes

VictoriaJetsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 01:13 PM
  #449
VictoriaJetsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,580
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTuna49 View Post
Unless he's playing 3 out of every 4 games in the NHL, I think he should start in the AHL. I just feel that unless he's playing most nights, I don't think he should be in the press box every other game. Then again, I'm sure it's something that could be a possibility and management will do what they think is best for the kid.
The cool thing about Trouba is if they handle him properly this year, there is absolutely no doubt he is ready to go full bore next year, same applies to Lowry too.

This is why I have been arguing for holding back somewhat his year and not freaking if we don't make the playoffs. It's next year, with a group of prospects ready to fully graduate, where we make a serious step forward.

VictoriaJetsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
09-24-2013, 02:34 PM
  #450
Petro Points
Registered User
 
Petro Points's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 14,343
vCash: 500
This Oil fan who knew nothing about Lowry before the game last night would like to say that this kid is a gem and was the best player for Jets after Kane.
Good with the puck and great without. Not sure what he is projected to be but hes got a long NHL career ahead of him.

Petro Points is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.