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Habs beat the Devils 3-2: Pre-season done the White way!

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Old
09-24-2013, 10:00 AM
  #176
Agnostic
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Yup, sounds just like a locker room cancer that has no respect for his teammates.
As I have said many times, it's a white man's game and Subban criticism has always been rooted in ignorance and racism. He's risen above it time and again.

The NHL needs a reset to get the establishment out on the street looking for work.

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09-24-2013, 10:17 AM
  #177
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As I have said many times, it's a white man's game and Subban criticism has always been rooted in ignorance and racism. He's risen above it time and again.

The NHL needs a reset to get the establishment out on the street looking for work.
People are going to be upset by this comment but I really do agree. A lot of the criticism we hear about Subban is the same sort of dog whistles I've been hearing in baseball and football my whole life, and Subban is far more mature than the average NFL player regardless of race.

It's not the only factor at play of course but there is a certain hostility directed at Subban and Evander Kane (who unlike Subban, genuinely does have some attitude questions, though the treatment is overblown) and the only comparable is how the league treats Russians.

Players who actually do cause trouble in the locker room, and who let their private life get in the way like Patrick Kane and Seguin don't get spoken about the same way Subban does.

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09-24-2013, 10:22 AM
  #178
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Really? I think people are blinded by their own bias here. I've been VERY critical of Moen last season, but yesterday, he had several big hits, made a key play on the game-winning goal, and was one of our most effective players on the PK.

Personally, I liked his game.
And this is what you get with moen, he's not a flashy player at all

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09-24-2013, 10:26 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
People are going to be upset by this comment but I really do agree. A lot of the criticism we hear about Subban is the same sort of dog whistles I've been hearing in baseball and football my whole life, and Subban is far more mature than the average NFL player regardless of race.

It's not the only factor at play of course but there is a certain hostility directed at Subban and Evander Kane (who unlike Subban, genuinely does have some attitude questions, though the treatment is overblown) and the only comparable is how the league treats Russians.

Players who actually do cause trouble in the locker room, and who let their private life get in the way like Patrick Kane and Seguin don't get spoken about the same way Subban does.
Well said!

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09-24-2013, 10:27 AM
  #180
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When was the last time Habs traded a player performing well for better assets? Rivet?

The 'Put him with good line mates, increase his scoring, and trade him at deadline' theory is complete crap. Never happens. Not logical, never happens.

Here's what will happen to DD: He will suck all year, and in th PO, and drive us ****ing crazy, and he will then be quietly moved next summer for something, anything.

Still cannot believe the 4 year signing. Totally ****ing stupid, and worse: Not Required.
Desharnais has been one of the best players in the preseason. He looks like he has something to prove. I doubted him years ago, thought he was too slow. Then he had his breakout season and I realized how smart a hockey player he is and how hard a worker he is. He had a bad year last year. That happens.

I have a very strong suspicion that you'll be eating these words very soon when the points start to add up for him.

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09-24-2013, 10:32 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
Once again Briere looks like another bloated Montreal contract. When I saw him and DD out there at the same time I threw up in my mouth.
Complete nonsense. They looked really solid out there and have played something like probably a cumulative 25 minutes in preseason so far together. They contributed to both Pacioretty goals last night and looked dangerous all game long.

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09-24-2013, 10:34 AM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Yup, sounds just like a locker room cancer that has no respect for his teammates.
And no leadership character.

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09-24-2013, 10:36 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Complete nonsense. They looked really solid out there and have played something like probably a cumulative 25 minutes in preseason so far together. They contributed to both Pacioretty goals last night and looked dangerous all game long.
Didn't you get the memo? They are small players and therefore, we must hate them.

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09-24-2013, 10:41 AM
  #184
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Didn't you get the memo? They are small players and therefore, we must hate them.
I didn't like the Brière signing at first, and have certain doubts about DD too after last year, but I mean geez, are people actually watching the games before commenting? Not only have they played barely any minutes together yet in the preseason but they actually looked good so far and got on the scoresheet. Yet people are talking about making them puke and how they are horrible contracts etc? It's insane! What a crazy concept it would be to wait and see what they do and give them credit when it's due.

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09-24-2013, 10:42 AM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Desharnais has been one of the best players in the preseason. He looks like he has something to prove. I doubted him years ago, thought he was too slow. Then he had his breakout season and I realized how smart a hockey player he is and how hard a worker he is. He had a bad year last year. That happens.

I have a very strong suspicion that you'll be eating these words very soon when the points start to add up for him.
If only he can get his 50-60 points without having the rest of the lineup receive his lines defensive responsibilities.

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09-24-2013, 10:44 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by HiggsBozon View Post
Really? I think people are blinded by their own bias here. I've been VERY critical of Moen last season, but yesterday, he had several big hits, made a key play on the game-winning goal, and was one of our most effective players on the PK.

Personally, I liked his game.
Seems to me that he has come into training camp with a real drive to do better. Seems gorges, moen and DD, the guys who most needed 'come back years' are at least doing their best to earn them.

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09-24-2013, 10:45 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
If only he can get his 50-60 points without having the rest of the lineup receive his lines defensive responsibilities.
How is he so bad defensively anyway. Because he doesn't crush guys into the boards?

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09-24-2013, 10:47 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Yup, sounds just like a locker room cancer that has no respect for his teammates.
It's really proving just how much leadership Subban is trying to build. Gaining the trust of the youngsters, getting them to play their games better; while at the same time he trying to get the veterans' confidence.

Subban is doing everything right to, EVENTUALLY, be a great Captain. He knows what it is to be under everybody's eyes and feel pressured into doing too much. He knows what it is to screw up on a play that end up costing your team, but you STILL GOTTA PLAY YOUR GAME. Getting Tinordi back in his game that way, AND speaking out for him with a reporter; that's the clever strategy.

Subban knows when to pinch both on the ice and with the media.

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09-24-2013, 10:48 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
How is he so bad defensively anyway. Because he doesn't crush guys into the boards?
Yes. Because that is the only way one can play defensive hockey...

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09-24-2013, 10:52 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Yes. Because that is the only way one can play defensive hockey...
Seriously I'd like to hear a really solid case about how DD is so bad defensively. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say the guy is a Selke candidate, but it's something you see thrown around a lot and I'm no expert on the matter but I've never seen anything jump out at me indicating he doesn't take care of his defensive responsibilities. As opposed to someone like Michael Ryder for example where the lapses are obvious.

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09-24-2013, 10:57 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Seriously I'd like to hear a really solid case about how DD is so bad defensively. Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say the guy is a Selke candidate, but it's something you see thrown around a lot and I'm no expert on the matter but I've never seen anything jump out at me indicating he doesn't take care of his defensive responsibilities. As opposed to someone like Michael Ryder for example where the lapses are obvious.
Michael Ryder doesn't hurt his team defensively as bad as DD. Then again, DD has way more responsibilities to answer for than a winger.


Anyway, this has been discussed to death. Look through past threads. It's all there.

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09-24-2013, 11:00 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Michael Ryder doesn't hurt his team defensively as bad as DD. Then again, DD has way more responsibilities to answer for than a winger.


Anyway, this has been discussed to death. Look through past threads. It's all there.
Yeah...I have other things to do than look at past threads but that is a good point about him being a center so increased defensive responsibility.

Just saying that I don't personally see the huge defensive lapses others are in his game. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

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09-24-2013, 11:02 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I kind of blame Tinordi for the 2nd goal against. He's the reason we haven't been able to clear the zone after 30-40 seconds.

He's great; he's progressing. But he's not at Gorges' level yet. Let him take bottom minutes or maybe Diaz's place at Markov's side.
haha , this made me laugh purely because they were BOTH on the ice for the goal lol and both didnt look "spectacular" on the play, but yes, there was ONE crucial clearing fail by tinordi that ultimately led to the goal

and he'll be the first to admit it, and thats good, because he knows next time hes gotta really SHOVE that puck out of there with more authority next time

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09-24-2013, 11:03 AM
  #194
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Yeah...I have other things to do than look at past threads but that is a good point about him being a center so increased defensive responsibility.

Just saying that I don't personally see the huge defensive lapses others are in his game. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.
Our team had a 3.00 GAA when he was on the ice last year, worst on the team.

For comparison, it was 1.82 when Plekanec was on the ice and he faces harder competition than DD.

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09-24-2013, 11:06 AM
  #195
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haha , this made me laugh purely because they were BOTH on the ice for the goal lol and both didnt look "spectacular" on the play, but yes, there was ONE crucial clearing fail by tinordi that ultimately led to the goal

and he'll be the first to admit it, and thats good, because he knows next time hes gotta really SHOVE that puck out of there with more authority next time
Well, I have to say; after 1m20s of play, everyone on that shift were pretty average and completely out of wind. But the reason they were playing that much is because Tinordi failed to clear the puck early on when he had the chance.

It happens. If Subban is right, it's a failure of communication more than anything else. Tinordi will leard, that's all.

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09-24-2013, 11:08 AM
  #196
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because it almost always does? haha.
Yeah, with top flight offensive talent; usually in a physically undeveloped package. Neither of those apply to Bournival right now.

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Has there ever been a player that's been screwed by too much time in the AHL?
Serious question? How often have you noticed a player become NHL ready, get sent back down to the AHL, and come back a completely reinvented, observably more offensive player?

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Look at Patches in his second year when he was with Metropolit and Moen. He got tons of chances but couldn't finish. Don't have to tell you the rest.
Yes, let's look at one of our young players with some of the highest offensive potential, who wasn't quite physically ready at the time, to help make my point...

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You could very well be right that he can start out on the 4th line and go from there but to say with such certainty that Bournival's type of game wouldn't benefit from playing big minutes in Hamilton seems a little spurious.
I'm guessing you're going to be disappointed when White doesn't turn out to be a 20 goal scorer despite the benefit of having been spent extra time in the AHL... groomed in the AHL for the role he'll play in the NHL - you'll catch onto that theme pretty quick after you follow any organization for a while. The Habs aren't going to send him down hoping that, in one year, he develops to the point that he's competition for Eller, Galchenyuk, Plekanec, MaxPac, Gallagher, etc offensively. Pretty sure they'd hope for that development from Dumont before Bournival.

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Kind of ironic that you talk of a 'magic formula' in mocking tones only to be so certain of your own idea of what's best for Bournival's development.
It's in mocking tones because organizations don't send players down to the minors for a year to milk an extra 1% of offensive potential out of a guy that's good enough to fill a role on the big club right now. They put them in the depth chart, and let their play and progress dictate what happens from there. Bournival already looks to me like someone who doesn't need any more transition time in the AHL, which is surprising to say the least.

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I just want to be clear though, I'm 50/50 on where he goes, I just don't know why you're so anti-Hamilton. His game is starting to resemble Patches a lot and could very well get similar results with the same course.
I'm not "anti-Hamilton". If we're talking about guys like Collberg, McCarron, Andrighetto, Hudon, MaxPac etc, those are guys you send back down to the appropriate level because they need the puck on their stick at this point, and they'll get a lot of that down at that level. Most of them arguably also have to develop physically (or in McCarron's case, learn to use his big body efficiently). I get that he "reminds you of MaxPac", but they are very different players. You're no closer to the mark when you expect to get "similar results" than I am expecting that he'd come out pretty much the same player he is right now.

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09-24-2013, 11:09 AM
  #197
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haha , this made me laugh purely because they were BOTH on the ice for the goal lol and both didnt look "spectacular" on the play, but yes, there was ONE crucial clearing fail by tinordi that ultimately led to the goal

and he'll be the first to admit it, and thats good, because he knows next time hes gotta really SHOVE that puck out of there with more authority next time
IIRC, he had a good 2-3 chances on that place to really do something with the puck and kinda just kept turning into the boards instead. there was that failed clear in there, too, yeah. Better for these things to pop up during training camp than regular season!

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09-24-2013, 11:12 AM
  #198
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Complete nonsense. They looked really solid out there and have played something like probably a cumulative 25 minutes in preseason so far together. They contributed to both Pacioretty goals last night and looked dangerous all game long.
I saw 2 players on the same shift, getting constantly knocked off the puck. Briere is often out of position, and looks lost on a smaller team. DD had a couple good shifts, but should never be out with DB.

It isn't a size thing, not when they are split up. You cannot have these two on at the same time. You may think I'm picking on them because of size, but I'm not. They play small, very small. Gallagher is one of my favourite players, so was Koivu, Courtnall ... etc. Watching these two contracts skate around the ice is just sad, I would rather MB stayed put than put this money into DB.

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09-24-2013, 11:14 AM
  #199
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I hope you throw out in your own mouth more often then... This line was by far the most dangerous one for the Habs. And while Pacioretty scored both goals, the line as a whole had more than enough opportunities.
On the powerplay, yeah. But no one ever doubted that DD and Briere would soak up powerplay time from everyone else, nor did anyone doubt that it would be one of the few situations they'd be able to somewhat "exploit". It's the rest of the game that's going to be a battle against teams outside of the cotton belt...

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Two players in there who didn't get praise but who, IMO, played a solid game:

Travis Moen and Josh Gorges.
Seriously? This is all relative to the guys that they were sitting next to on the bench, but I thought they were among the more quietly disappointing.

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09-24-2013, 11:18 AM
  #200
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On the powerplay, yeah. But no one ever doubted that DD and Briere would soak up powerplay time from everyone else, nor did anyone doubt that it would be one of the few situations they'd be able to somewhat "exploit". It's the rest of the game that's going to be a battle against teams outside of the cotton belt...
Even at 5v5, the DD line was the one with the most scoring chances. 2nd was whatever line Gallagher was on at the time.

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