Well Ryder is 3-5-8 in 17 games in the playoffs...shoud we trade him as well?
So what good is that?
Murray is one dimension. Downey is one dimension. Both of them are in the NHL.
Actually, as a 25 - 30 goal scorer Ryder is the only player on the Habs who has great trade value so maybe. But his ability to finish in irreplaceable. As you know the Habs are a team that has trouble finishing. So his value to us is also high. While I am the first to admit that he has had trouble in the playoffs, Ryder is also the type of player who could potentially be big. RIbeiro is not.
Murray and Downey are not one-dimensional. They are role players who skate hard, hit, play responsible defensively and forecheck. BTW, you left out Begin. And I will say without hesitation that a team of Steve Begin's would come pretty damn close to winning the Stanley Cup. They might lack a little goal scoring but they would be impossible to play against. A team of Ribeiro's would never make the playoffs because softness is a losing game.
Strange but that what people said when they were on waivers...that they did not have the "potential".....
I disagree. People discounted them in the "old" NHL because they lacked size. But in the "new" NHL, size doesn;t matter as much. Speed, strength and skill are paramount now. But even in the new NHL Ribeiro has been largely ineffective because he is slow, soft and a choker. Ribeiro is not and never will be a Briere, Bergeron etc. These players are a league above Ribeiro.
I disagree. People discounted them in the "old" NHL because they lacked size. But in the "new" NHL, size doesn;t matter as much. Speed, strength and skill are paramount now. But even in the new NHL Ribeiro has been largely ineffective because he is slow, soft and a choker. Ribeiro is not and never will be a Briere, Bergeron etc. These players are a league above Ribeiro.
The Habs passed on Bergeron....and Briere as well. And people were saying the samething about them. Will see with the time.
Actually, as a 25 - 30 goal scorer Ryder is the only player on the Habs who has great trade value so maybe. But his ability to finish in irreplaceable. As you know the Habs are a team that has trouble finishing. So his value to us is also high. While I am the first to admit that he has had trouble in the playoffs, Ryder is also the type of player who could potentially be big. RIbeiro is not.
Well you can't have it both ways.
Ryder is a choker, just like Ribs.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22
Murray and Downey are not one-dimensional. They are role players who skate hard, hit, play responsible defensively and forecheck. BTW, you left out Begin.
Yes they are one dimension. Begin as more offense than the 2 combined. Anyone can play responsible on the 4th-line...Even Bouillon and Dandy were better than those 2 combined.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22
And I will say without hesitation that a team of Steve Begin's would come pretty damn close to winning the Stanley Cup. They might lack a little goal scoring but they would be impossible to play against. A team of Ribeiro's would never make the playoffs because softness is a losing game.
Disagree. Who would score on the PP? And playoffs are won by goaltender.
I give you Theo plus 20 Begin and I will take Brodeur and 20 Ribs....Will see who would win.
He was on the side of the street singing "Im a fairy"....then when the song ended, Dagenais came out and him, Ribs and some others (i think Nik Sundstrom was there) went into some restaurant. They all had mullets too.
I give you Theo plus 20 Begin and I will take Brodeur and 20 Ribs....Will see who would win.
You're right that goaltenders are the most important element but you still have to produce offense to win. Calgary and NJ have not been outplayed in goal, but they have problems producing so they don't win in the playoffs.
Montreal actually has the same problems as Jersey. We (now) have goaltending but not enough goal scorers. Hence why Ryder is more important than Ribeiro. And again, Ryder is the type that CAN produce. Ribeiro is deadweight.
Montreal actually has the same problems as Jersey. We (now) have goaltending but not enough goal scorers. Hence why Ryder is more important than Ribeiro. And again, Ryder is the type that CAN produce. Ribeiro is deadweight.
To be able to score goal, you need someone to pass you the puck at the right moment and make plays happen. Hence the problem with the 2nd-line.
Ryder CAN produce and Ribs CANNOT???? They played the same amount of games in the playoffs and they have the same records BUT Ribs is a deadweight while Ryder is a sure project? Man you are really objective.
You're right that goaltenders are the most important element but you still have to produce offense to win. Calgary and NJ have not been outplayed in goal, but they have problems producing so they don't win in the playoffs.
Montreal actually has the same problems as Jersey. We (now) have goaltending but not enough goal scorers. Hence why Ryder is more important than Ribeiro. And again, Ryder is the type that CAN produce. Ribeiro is deadweight.
umm...unless I'm mistaken and I have no idea what I'm talking about (which unfortunately could be very true...), Ryder is the type of player that needs someone that can get him the puck at the right time and place else he himself is rather a dead weight. While Ribs (and his ilk) is the type of player that needs to send the puck to the right player at the right time to produce. Meaning, one passes for the assist, the other scores. One without the other is fairly useless. I'm talking about the type of player they are.
Also saying Ribs on his career season was only riding Ryders coat tails is rather extreme unless you believe Ryder was the one who took the puck from his zone into the offensive zone and score by himself without any help from others. Or (god help us) you believe Dags was the one who assisted Ryder or the D and Ribs was just twiddling his thumbs doing nothing. On that note, who was the one assisting Dags on his goals? I rather doubt it was Ryder. And it is doubtful Dags would have done as well without Ribs.
What I'm getting at is that Ryder would not have produced as well as he has without the help from Ribs. Ryder was the goal scorer, Ribs the one dishing the assists. Saying Ribs rode Ryders coat tails is like saying Spezza rode the coat tails of Heatley and was otherwise deadweight. I'm in no way saying Ribs is in the same league (or galaxy for that matter) as Spezza but Spezza wasn't the one scoring. He was dishing out the assists which from my point of view is what Ribs does. Of course, if you think Spezza isn't worth much either, then I suppose we are at an impasse.
To be able to score goal, you need someone to pass you the puck at the right moment and make plays happen. Hence the problem with the 2nd-line.
Huh ?
The problem with the 2nd line is the lack of a gaol scorer, not the lack of a set-up guy. Samsonov and Kovalev are more (selfish) playmakers than pure goal scorers...
Here's my prediction: Ribs will bounce around the NHL for a couple of years to teams looking for a centre and who are also mistakenly thinking he is just being misused. It won;t be long before he is in the AHL. Bob Gainey is the same GM who got Aebischer for Theodore. The most he could get for Ribeiro is a 7th defenseman. That tells you something.
A 60pt man in the NHL, will never play in the AHL. I don't get why you bring up Theodore - Aebischer trade... Colo saw Theodore as an elite goalie who could bounce back. Theodore was a top 10 guy around the league for the last few years, unfortunetely for them...Theodore seemingly just as bad as when he left us. The Ribeiro-Niinimaa trade was the EXACT opposite of this for us. Where Gainey said that he believed that Niinimaa could be for us what he was for Edmonton. Well... we lost on that deal.
A 60pt man in the NHL, will never play in the AHL. I don't get why you bring up Theodore - Aebischer trade... Colo saw Theodore as an elite goalie who could bounce back. Theodore was a top 10 guy around the league for the last few years, unfortunetely for them...Theodore seemingly just as bad as when he left us. The Ribeiro-Niinimaa trade was the EXACT opposite of this for us. Where Gainey said that he believed that Niinimaa could be for us what he was for Edmonton. Well... we lost on that deal.
Ribeiro was of no value to us so we lost nothing. If Dallas had given us Jason Arnott's old water bottle we would have come out even.
Gainey used Niinimaa as an excuse to trade away a worthless player. Niinimaa was just the smoke-screen so that, with all due respect, the Rejean Tremblays of the world didn't accuse him of being too anti-Francophone. As it turned out, Latendresse earned a spot so it wasn't even necessary. I would have been happy with a draft pick.
When will you guys get over it? He had 60 pts in ONE SEASON. Mogilny had 127 points in one season and look where he is. Point getters are nice, but at some point you have to evaluate their overall contributions and Ribeiro was never a positive contributor.
umm...unless I'm mistaken and I have no idea what I'm talking about (which unfortunately could be very true...), Ryder is the type of player that needs someone that can get him the puck at the right time and place else he himself is rather a dead weight. While Ribs (and his ilk) is the type of player that needs to send the puck to the right player at the right time to produce. Meaning, one passes for the assist, the other scores. One without the other is fairly useless. I'm talking about the type of player they are.
Also saying Ribs on his career season was only riding Ryders coat tails is rather extreme unless you believe Ryder was the one who took the puck from his zone into the offensive zone and score by himself without any help from others.
The proof is next year's results. Ribeiro's point production fell when Ryder moved up to play with Koivu. Explaination: Ribeiro could no longer capitalize on Ryder's goal scoring. Ribeiro is not good enough to build a line around. Kovelev is, soooo..... goodbye.
We desperately needed a dman with Bouillon, Dandenault and Côté out.
Gainey had a somewhat valuable spare part to offer to get this issue fixed. He traded it.
You are right, but I don;t think for 2 seconds that Gainey actually thought Niinimaa would pan out. He was just a filler.
But one thing I can promise you is that Gainey was not thinking short term. He knew we would be in big trouble with all these dipsy doodlers so he said goodbye to the one that had no value to us.
A couple of slight corrections. Dandenault was not injured at that point. Souray was DTD with pain in his shoulder.
i though this thread was about plekanec on the second line!?
well he played ok last night the line look like it was working a bit more, but then bonk played on there for part of the third. i still think we need another center...
Ribeiro was of no value to us so we lost nothing. If Dallas had given us Jason Arnott's old water bottle we would have come out even.
Gainey used Niinimaa as an excuse to trade away a worthless player. Niinimaa was just the smoke-screen so that, with all due respect, the Rejean Tremblays of the world didn't accuse him of being too anti-Francophone. As it turned out, Latendresse earned a spot so it wasn't even necessary. I would have been happy with a draft pick.
Yet we are still looking for a 2nd C. We desperately needed a D so we got one. What? Anti-Francophone?? Whoa, last I checked Niinimaa wasn't from anywhere near a 1000 mile radius of Quebec.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-22
When will you guys get over it? He had 60 pts in ONE SEASON. Mogilny had 127 points in one season and look where he is. Point getters are nice, but at some point you have to evaluate their overall contributions and Ribeiro was never a positive contributor.
Last I checked, Mogilny was sent down to the minors because of cap issues, not because he is worthless.
Yet we are still looking for a 2nd C. We desperately needed a D so we got one. What? Anti-Francophone?? Whoa, last I checked Niinimaa wasn't from anywhere near a 1000 mile radius of Quebec.
Can you imagine what would have happened if the national hero had been traded for nothing?
Quote:
Last I checked, Mogilny was sent down to the minors because of cap issues, not because he is worthless.
Nope. The fact that you are in the AHL does not mean you don't count against the cap....only for players who are under 35 I think. The Devils sent him to the minors because there is no room for one-dimensional players anymore. If I am not mistaken (and I don't believe I am), last year he was counting against their cap. Only this year did good old Lou find a loophole to put him and Malakhov on the IR or somthing like that. Somebody can correct me if I am wrong there but I think that it is how it went.
Can you imagine what would have happened if the national hero had been traded for nothing?
Nope. The fact that you are in the AHL does not mean you don't count against the cap....only for players who are under 35 I think. The Devils sent him to the minors because there is no room for one-dimensional players anymore. If I am not mistaken (and I don't believe I am), last year he was counting against their cap. Only this year did good old Lou find a loophole to put him and Malakhov on the IR or somthing like that. Somebody can correct me if I am wrong there but I think that it is how it went.
Totally right about Mogilny. His salary did count against the cap
You're right that goaltenders are the most important element but you still have to produce offense to win. Calgary and NJ have not been outplayed in goal, but they have problems producing so they don't win in the playoffs.
Montreal actually has the same problems as Jersey. We (now) have goaltending but not enough goal scorers. Hence why Ryder is more important than Ribeiro. And again, Ryder is the type that CAN produce. Ribeiro is deadweight.
Ribeiro was of no value to us so we lost nothing. If Dallas had given us Jason Arnott's old water bottle we would have come out even.
Gainey used Niinimaa as an excuse to trade away a worthless player. Niinimaa was just the smoke-screen so that, with all due respect, the Rejean Tremblays of the world didn't accuse him of being too anti-Francophone. As it turned out, Latendresse earned a spot so it wasn't even necessary. I would have been happy with a draft pick.
When will you guys get over it? He had 60 pts in ONE SEASON. Mogilny had 127 points in one season and look where he is. Point getters are nice, but at some point you have to evaluate their overall contributions and Ribeiro was never a positive contributor.
when i think that two days ago , i made a post where i compared the stats of Koivu and Forsberg , and than 3 fans were offensed because " i was bashing Koivu " ...
This guy has now 15 posts only in this thread , just to just to vomit its hatred for Ribeiro ; you really need to talk to a doctor , about the way you completly loose all your selfcontrol , when your read the name of monsieur Ribeiro .
A 60pt man in the NHL, will never play in the AHL. I don't get why you bring up Theodore - Aebischer trade... Colo saw Theodore as an elite goalie who could bounce back. Theodore was a top 10 guy around the league for the last few years, unfortunetely for them...Theodore seemingly just as bad as when he left us. The Ribeiro-Niinimaa trade was the EXACT opposite of this for us. Where Gainey said that he believed that Niinimaa could be for us what he was for Edmonton. Well... we lost on that deal.
Brad Isbister once had 40 points in 60 games, how's that working for him now?
Regardless his comparison with the Theo ( I think) relates to the fact that we couldn't lose the Theo or the Ribeiro trades and that what we got in return is irrelevant.
We needed Ribs out for the benefit of Latendresse , to make room on one hand and to make sure he learned from Bégin and not him.
Just reading the RDS article about the atmosphere in the locker room makes me think we have already won those trades (Theo / Ribs) and the fact Niinima was useful for a couple of games is just a bonus.
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