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Unretiring numbers?

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Old
09-24-2013, 09:11 AM
  #51
MXD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
The only reason I was, and still am, against the retirement of Bob Gainey's number was that the arrogant dunce retired HIS OWN NUMBER. The numbers retired since then have also been a bit superfluous. Bouchard, Lach and Roy - not really "huge" figures in our past like the Rocket or Beliveau, surely you'd all agree?
Roy is kinda huge.
Lach and Bouchard are definitely on the outer fringe but do not look as out of place as would Koivu or Markov.

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09-24-2013, 09:26 AM
  #52
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1-Jacques Plante
2-Doug Harvey
3-Emile Bouchard
4-Jean Beliveau
5-Bernie Geoffrion
7-Howie Morenz
9-Maurice Richard
10-Guy Lafleur
12-Yvon Cournoyer
12-Dickie Moore
16-Elmer Lach
16-Henri Richard
18-Serge Savard
19-Larry Robinson
23-Bob Gainey
29-Ken Dryden
33-Patrick Roy

I count 15 numbers that are retired. That leaves 84 more numbers that can be used. No reason at all to unretire those numbers.

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09-24-2013, 10:30 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Beendair Donedat View Post
4 straight Selke Trophies, won 1976 Canada Cup, Conn Smythe winner, 5 time cup winner with the Habs, Inducted in Hockey Hall of Fame, Soviet national team coach Viktor Tikhonov called him the "best all around player in the world."

Obviously you never saw Gainey play.
You beat me to it. Gainey was one of the best defensive forwards ever to play in the NHL.

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09-24-2013, 10:49 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
The only reason I was, and still am, against the retirement of Bob Gainey's number was that the arrogant dunce retired HIS OWN NUMBER.
I don't think Gainey had anything to do with it.

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09-24-2013, 11:00 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
I don't think Gainey had anything to do with it.
Was probably more of a Boivin thing.

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Old
09-24-2013, 11:42 AM
  #56
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Wow if retiring Roy or Gainey is too much than we better start spreading around the word to the league that they better stop retiring players completely. Since Gainey with 5 stanley cups, a Conn Smythe Trophy and a 4 time Frank Selke trophy winner is overrated for having his number retired we should make sure that Crosby, Toews, Ovechkin or any other player never get the same treatment.

Why? Because Richard and Morenz deserve it more than Gainey... The reality is that such players belong to the past. Gretzky wouldn't be punching numbers like he did in the 80s if he played today and that players like Gainey and Roy have been icons in their time as much as other players were before them.

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09-24-2013, 11:44 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Was probably more of a Boivin thing.
It shouldn't have happen. It was a bush league move for a gamut of reasons. And I don't think that Roy was as significant as Dryden, nor Lach and Bouchard as any of the other wonderful players in our past.

The Gainey era got a bit too hung up on itself and culminated in the poop sandwich which was the centennial year. The only retired number I fully supported with no argument was Robinson's.

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Old
09-24-2013, 12:23 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It shouldn't have happen. It was a bush league move for a gamut of reasons. And I don't think that Roy was as significant as Dryden, nor Lach and Bouchard as any of the other wonderful players in our past.

The Gainey era got a bit too hung up on itself and culminated in the poop sandwich which was the centennial year. The only retired number I fully supported with no argument was Robinson's.
Why shouldn't Gainey have happened?

Captain, 4 time Selke winner, 5 Stanley cups and a conn smythe. He's also in HHOF.

Not sure why you wouldn't have.

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09-24-2013, 01:00 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Why shouldn't Gainey have happened?

Captain, 4 time Selke winner, 5 Stanley cups and a conn smythe. He's also in HHOF.

Not sure why you wouldn't have.
I should't have happened because Gainey was the GM at the time. Unless he was mortally ill and they wanted to honour him while he was still alive, it was arrogant and obnoxious of them to retire his number while he was directly involved with the organization. That's my only gripe against his number being retired.

And yes, he is absolutely worthy but he should be among the "lower limit" of retired numbers, like Boom Boom and Cournoyer. Fantastic players but they don't match the individual "aura" of Beliveau, M.Richard, H.Richard, Morenz, Plante, and Dryden.

Koivu (and Markov) shouldn't stand a chance.

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09-24-2013, 01:42 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsrule View Post
1-Jacques Plante
2-Doug Harvey
3-Emile Bouchard
4-Jean Beliveau
5-Bernie Geoffrion
7-Howie Morenz
9-Maurice Richard
10-Guy Lafleur
12-Yvon Cournoyer
12-Dickie Moore
16-Elmer Lach
16-Henri Richard
18-Serge Savard
19-Larry Robinson
23-Bob Gainey
29-Ken Dryden
33-Patrick Roy

I count 15 numbers that are retired. That leaves 84 more numbers that can be used. No reason at all to unretire those numbers.
Not anytime soon but someday I can see the discussion of unretiring #'s happening.

I'm not saying anyone above doesn't deserve the honour but there a bunch of Habs hall of famers not even reflected above.

Will guys like Shutt, Lemaire, Lapointe, etc. be forgotten because they don't have their #'s retired? When I see 22 or 25 on the ice I think back to Shutt and Lemaire but I seldom think of some of the names above anymore because their numbers are out of circulation.

I'm not sure whats the best way to honour players after retirement but I have always liked a ring of honour type approach. Any hall of fame player who spent a significant amount of time with the Habs or contributed greatly to team success (like a Frank Mahovlich) or had a long distinguished run with the team (like a Koivu) deserves to be there in my opinion.

For me 27 will always be Frank Mahovlich and 11 Koivu, irregardless who's wearing the jersey. And as you can see above Cournoyer and Henri Richard wore #'s of prior legends (Guy Lapointe too).

Add: #1 has some Habs legends attached to it as well besides Plante.


Last edited by Chili: 09-24-2013 at 01:52 PM. Reason: Addition
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Old
09-24-2013, 02:16 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Bouchard, Lach and Roy - not really "huge" figures in our past like the Rocket or Beliveau, surely you'd all agree?
Roy might not be an iconic figure like the Rocket or Béliveau but he is certainly deserving of having his number retired. He's one of the very best goaltenders in the history of the NHL.

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Old
09-24-2013, 02:25 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
I should't have happened because Gainey was the GM at the time. Unless he was mortally ill and they wanted to honour him while he was still alive, it was arrogant and obnoxious of them to retire his number while he was directly involved with the organization. That's my only gripe against his number being retired.

And yes, he is absolutely worthy but he should be among the "lower limit" of retired numbers, like Boom Boom and Cournoyer. Fantastic players but they don't match the individual "aura" of Beliveau, M.Richard, H.Richard, Morenz, Plante, and Dryden.

Koivu (and Markov) shouldn't stand a chance.
If you're arguing timing then it's just details. I'll safely agree to disagree because I'm not really opposed to the timing nor do I think it was urgent. As long as we agree on merit, I'm happy with that.

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09-24-2013, 07:19 PM
  #63
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I speak as someone who grew up watching all of the Habs except for Howie Morenz (who had died years earlier) from the 1940s on. While I wouldn't unretire any number, I respect the point of view that some of the retired players weren't as great as others. Perhaps the most overrated legendary Hab was Bernie Geoffrion. Although he scored 50 goals once he was not a great skater or good defensively--the last one Toe Blake would would have chosen as a checker to keep Howe or Mahovlich from scoring a 50th goal. There were better centers than Elmer Lach and better Dmen than Butch Bouchard in their day. I could easily argue against Steve Shutt but not against Jacques Lemaire. As for Gainey, I'd say he does deserve the honor.

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Old
09-24-2013, 07:25 PM
  #64
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Babe Ruth's number.

Let's unretire it.

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Old
09-24-2013, 08:06 PM
  #65
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It's a bigger honor than the hockey hall of fame, it'd be a joke to un-retire anyone's number

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09-24-2013, 08:45 PM
  #66
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Simple: players who are long-time greats get their numbers retired. Players who are long-time Habs and high-profile players (the Koivus and Markovs) should simply have their numbers honored. Just hang them up there but don't retire the numbers.

Unretiring is a huge no-no. I'm not all that attached to the retired numbers as much as I am the players behind them, and I think retiring a number is a bit of an antiquated ceremony in the first place, but going back on it is going to open up a can of worms that will leave a mark on the organisation so black that it wouldn't come off with laser surgery.

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Old
09-24-2013, 08:52 PM
  #67
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The trouble with retiring numbers is that the NHL goes on and on and on. Eventually more and more numbers will be retired until the Bell Centre will look like an oversized backyard clothes line.

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Old
09-24-2013, 09:08 PM
  #68
Born in 1909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haseoke39 View Post
Sabres fan (seriously) coming in peace.

Having a discussion about unretiring numbers (it happens once in a while). What do Habs fans think about the prospect of unretiring guys like Elmer Lach or Howie Morenz? What does having the numbers in the rafters mean for you, as fans, if no one you know ever saw them play? Is it meaningful to have those numbers up there for you, and if so, why?

I'm not targeting the Habs in particular or trying to suggest your greats were anything less than greats, you're just such a storied franchise that you're the first to come to mind when I thought of who might have jerseys up there that folks don't know anymore.
What?

Why not take Lincoln off Mount Rushmore because no one alive has seen him.

Sorry bud. Stupid thread.

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Old
09-24-2013, 10:07 PM
  #69
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If you go over the lists that the Hockey News produced in 1997 and 2010 of the top 100 players of all time you'd be surpised how many Habs legends have NOT had their numbers retired.

And of the retired #'s, several were worn after those guys retired. i.e. when I started following hockey #2 was a Norris winning dman (Laperriere), #1 a Vezina winning goaler (Gumper), #3 was a defenceman who should be in the hall in my opinion (JC Tremblay).

I would just like to see something where they we all recognized. When I go over the list of retired numbers, hard to justify why names like Vezina, Lalonde, Blake among others are not there.

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