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Old
09-24-2013, 09:22 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primetimey View Post
Hunter Shinkaruk, Bo Horvat, Kevin Bieksa for Nik Kronwall
Are you kidding me? that's not even close to comparable!!!

Horvat > Ritchie
Shinkaruk >Chiasson
Bieksa< Kronwall.

:

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Old
09-24-2013, 09:38 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by kanucks1 View Post
Are you kidding me? that's not even close to comparable!!!

Horvat > Ritchie
Shinkaruk >Chiasson
Bieksa< Kronwall.

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Yes, because Horvat and Shinkaruk are better than Ritchie and Chiasson

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Old
09-24-2013, 02:35 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primetimey View Post
Hunter Shinkaruk, Bo Horvat, Kevin Bieksa for Nik Kronwall
Lmfao Edler is way more valuable than Kronwall. Slightly better player and 5.5 years younger.

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Old
09-24-2013, 02:37 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Primetimey View Post
Yes, because Horvat and Shinkaruk are better than Ritchie and Chiasson
Don't know much about Ritchie but Shinkaruk is better than Chiasson for sure.

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Old
09-24-2013, 02:57 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Don't know much about Ritchie but Shinkaruk is better than Chiasson for sure.
[citation needed]

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Old
09-24-2013, 03:01 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Don't know much about Ritchie but Shinkaruk is better than Chiasson for sure.
He may end up being better than Chiasson but right now Chiasson is a guy who produced in college, produced in the ahl, and in a brief stint produced in the nhl. He is big, smart and plays an NHL style game.

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Old
09-24-2013, 03:21 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Lord Flacko View Post
Lmfao Edler is way more valuable than Kronwall. Slightly better player and 5.5 years younger.
It doesn't matter who the D on the other side is. The simple fact is, Vancouver wouldn't trade Horvat, Shinkaruk, and Bieksa for a decent upgrade on D. Dallas won't trade Ritchie, Chiasson, and Goligoski for a decent upgrade on D.

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Old
09-24-2013, 03:24 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanucks1 View Post
Are you kidding me? that's not even close to comparable!!!

Horvat > Ritchie
Shinkaruk >Chiasson
Bieksa< Kronwall.

:
Shake your head at yourself, mate. If it's a deal involving Kronwall, who plays for Detroit, how do Ritchie and Chiasson figure into this?

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Old
09-24-2013, 03:50 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primetimey View Post
It doesn't matter who the D on the other side is. The simple fact is, Vancouver wouldn't trade Horvat, Shinkaruk, and Bieksa for a decent upgrade on D. Dallas won't trade Ritchie, Chiasson, and Goligoski for a decent upgrade on D.
Well, if this is how you would rate these players, then clearly you don't make the deal.

Personally, I think your ability to assess these players is quite poor. Not so much with the prospects, though even that is shakey, but more with the Defensemen you've used as examples.

The difference between Goligoski and Edler is substantial. Goligoski is a very one dimensional player, who can produce offence and little else.

The difference between Bieksa and Kronwall is less substantial. Bieksa, though inconsistent, brings an all around game. Has offense, has played substantial minutes on a shut down pairing, is a very scrappy individual. He's very capable of playing in a leadership roll on any team.

The Stars would be a better team today if they made that Trade for Edler, and I would say significantly better. Of course, it does come at a cost ... they would be giving up very significant assets to get him. In that trade, the Canucks end up significantly worse with a major glaring weakness on defense with too many similar level guys fighting for a place on the wings. BUT Chiasson would be a treat to watch playing on the Canucks top 6.

If the Canucks made the trade you suggested, they would gut their youth, lose one of their top 4 defenseman and leaders to get slightly better/more aggressive hitting on defense. I might be wrong, but I'm thinking that if you offered this trade to the Wings they'd be very interested. A slight downgrade from Kronwall to Bieksa, but adding two very promising prospects, one down the middle and the other on the wing.

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Old
09-24-2013, 05:42 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanucks1 View Post
Are you kidding me? that's not even close to comparable!!!

Horvat > Ritchie
Shinkaruk >Chiasson
Bieksa< Kronwall.

:
Horvat is NOT > Ritchie. At least not according to your HF write up on him, and I agree.

Shinkaruk MAY have a higher upside than Chiasson (i would accept that argument while disagreeing) except that Chiasson is all but 82 games proven, he has produced at every level including the nhl and is already arriving. That is, he is a sure thing plus player on the 2nd line, which is more valuable than a long-shot prospect, regardless of potential upside.

the point of course is that while Edler is better than Goligoski by a pretty good margin, he is not Chiasson and Ritchie better. He is not trade away your future better.

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Old
09-24-2013, 05:44 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primetimey View Post
Yes, because Horvat and Shinkaruk are better than Ritchie and Chiasson
They are.....

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Old
09-24-2013, 07:17 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
They are.....
Based on....?

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Old
09-24-2013, 07:43 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
They are.....
Ok. Either you have know idea what you're talking about or you're just an incredibly biased homer.

Brett Ritchie - http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=45554

Alex Chiasson - http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=32978

Bo Horvat - http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=117012

Hunter Shinkaruk - http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=52391

Take a look for yourself. Stats don't lie. Ritchie and Chiasson have produced at every level they've played so far.

Ritchie vs. Horvat...it's not even close. Ritchie is better by such a great margin I question if you even know who any of these players are.

Chiasson and Shinkaruk play completely different games so it's hard to compare. Chiasson has a far more complete game though, and while Shinkaruk MAY have a higher ceiling, there's a great chance he'll never reach it.

I don't care how small the sample size was, when either of these players put up 7 points in 7 NHL games (like Chiasson), we'll talk.

I think someone's mad their team took a certain someone over some scrub by the name of Nichushkin this summer...

I'm not taking away from Horvat or Shinkaruk, they're good players. (If you've seem my past posts, you know Shinkaruk is one of my favorite prospects. But, Chiasson is better than both and Ritchie is better than both, AINEC.

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Old
09-24-2013, 07:47 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
They are.....
I don't understand posts like these. Baseless claims, even in the face of statistical evidence.

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Old
09-24-2013, 08:38 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Pohlow View Post
I don't understand posts like these. Baseless claims, even in the face of statistical evidence.
Well you see, the Canucks prospects are much younger and thus have limitless potential. Stars prospects on the other hand are a little older and thus their potential has only gone down.

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Old
09-24-2013, 10:25 PM
  #66
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Hard to compare Horvat to either as he's a center and plays a different game. But I'd probably take Horvat over either of the Stars' prospects listed.

Shinkaruk... Nah. Too much bust potential. Chiasson and Ritchie both look to be at worst good 3rd line wingers, while Shinkaruk is a top 6 or bust kind of player. And there's gotta be a reason he fell (I still think he's a top 10 offensive talent from this draft, though). It is quite close between the four.

Horvat
Ritchie
Chiasson
Shinkaruk

Is how I'd rank them.

Although I don't know what that has to do with anything in this thread...

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Old
09-25-2013, 12:16 AM
  #67
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This trade helps Dallas in the shortrun.

This trade helps Vancouver in the longrun.

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Old
09-25-2013, 12:23 AM
  #68
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Who trades their #1 defenseman a week before the season starts...?

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:44 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Hard to compare Horvat to either as he's a center and plays a different game. But I'd probably take Horvat over either of the Stars' prospects listed.

Shinkaruk... Nah. Too much bust potential. Chiasson and Ritchie both look to be at worst good 3rd line wingers, while Shinkaruk is a top 6 or bust kind of player. And there's gotta be a reason he fell (I still think he's a top 10 offensive talent from this draft, though). It is quite close between the four.

Horvat
Ritchie
Chiasson
Shinkaruk

Is how I'd rank them.

Although I don't know what that has to do with anything in this thread...
It's basically a **** measuring contest at this point.

As far as taking a side, the only thing Horvat and Shink have over Toaster and Ritchie is draft position. It's anyone's guess who's better. These hypotheticals are hilarious.

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Old
09-25-2013, 02:10 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
Hard to compare Horvat to either as he's a center and plays a different game. But I'd probably take Horvat over either of the Stars' prospects listed.

Shinkaruk... Nah. Too much bust potential. Chiasson and Ritchie both look to be at worst good 3rd line wingers, while Shinkaruk is a top 6 or bust kind of player. And there's gotta be a reason he fell (I still think he's a top 10 offensive talent from this draft, though). It is quite close between the four.

Horvat
Ritchie
Chiasson
Shinkaruk

Is how I'd rank them.

Although I don't know what that has to do with anything in this thread...
Why? Why can't he just be a steal? It boggles my mind that people will discredit a player without a hint of an idea of what they're actually discrediting him for.

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Old
09-25-2013, 02:55 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Kesler2Burrows View Post
They are.....
Sure... they are.

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Old
09-25-2013, 04:47 AM
  #72
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Isn't Bo Horvat basically a smaller Radek Faksa minus the injury plagued post draft season?

I'd take the 6'4 physical power forward with 30+ goal potential over the defensive center with offensive question marks. But that "AINEC" remark by Morry83 is clearly something of a troll. Despite reservations about country of birth during the draft, Horvat was taken over a player Dallas took who clearly has greater potential than Ritchie. Horvat is no mug.

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Old
09-25-2013, 09:47 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Based on....?
His signature!

If last nights game is any indication on how good Shinkaruk and Horvat will be then Vancouver better flip them quick!

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Old
09-26-2013, 08:07 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primetimey View Post
Yes, because Horvat and Shinkaruk are better than Ritchie and Chiasson
They are better than Chaisson and Ritchie the year they were drafted.

Which is why they were drafted higher in a (supposedly) deeper draft.

Obviously only time will tell how they'll develop, but I doubt DAL would have gotten the 23rd overall for Chaisson, or the 9th overall for Ritchie in this year's draft had they proposed either to the respective teams that owned the picks.

Also, your earlier comparison is poor because Bieksa is better than Goligoski, and Edler is better than Kronwall.

Not a valid comparison.

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