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Habs beat the Devils 3-2: Pre-season done the White way!

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Old
09-24-2013, 01:05 PM
  #226
HiggsBozon
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
On the powerplay, yeah. But no one ever doubted that DD and Briere would soak up powerplay time from everyone else, nor did anyone doubt that it would be one of the few situations they'd be able to somewhat "exploit". It's the rest of the game that's going to be a battle against teams outside of the cotton belt...



Seriously? This is all relative to the guys that they were sitting next to on the bench, but I thought they were among the more quietly disappointing.
Gorges broke a great number of plays out there in the breakout, which is one of the main things I held against him for NOT doing last season. Quiet, yes, but disappointing, yesterday? Not at all. As for Moen, he did everything you can expect from a vet like him: He was physical, and definitely made a lot of good plays. Including on the PK, and on the game winning goal. His line also was having a very good game.

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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Even at 5v5, the DD line was the one with the most scoring chances. 2nd was whatever line Gallagher was on at the time.
On the Desharnais line, couldn't agree more. They were the ones who, by far, controlled the puck the most in the offensive zone. Whether it pleases some people or not.

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09-24-2013, 01:13 PM
  #227
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Saw the highlights. Really hope Maxpac continues to deke more. I remember him having good hands when he first came in. I Think he emulated Cole too much when he was learning from him. Cole tends to just use speed and size to get chances, knowing he doesnt have the best hands. Max on the other hand has the ability to pull of some nice dekes. hopefully he expands his game because itll help his production and keep opponents honest.

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09-24-2013, 01:50 PM
  #228
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tinordi is the second coming of Pronger

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09-24-2013, 01:55 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Bieber fever View Post
tinordi is the second coming of Pronger
Without the PP ability, but I actually think Pronger without the PP ability is a great comparison for Tinordi's upside.

(But obviously the best comparison is Derian Hatcher)

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09-24-2013, 01:56 PM
  #230
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tinordi is the second coming of Pronger
With a little mix of Scott Stevens and Nick Lidstrom.

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09-24-2013, 02:07 PM
  #231
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With a little mix of Scott Stevens and Nick Lidstrom.
Without forgetting Bobby Orr.

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09-24-2013, 02:23 PM
  #232
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How about we not go to extremes and just say that he is the second coming of his pop only bigger, meaner and a better skater.

Not a bad thing at all.

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09-24-2013, 02:25 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
How about we not go to extremes and just say that he is the second coming of his pop only bigger, meaner and a better skater.

Not a bad thing at all.
Meaner? Not sure about that.

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09-24-2013, 02:37 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
Without the PP ability, but I actually think Pronger without the PP ability is a great comparison for Tinordi's upside.

(But obviously the best comparison is Derian Hatcher)
I remember that when he was drafted "chris pronger without the offence" was how his ceiling was often described. Darian Hatcher is another good comparible as well.

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09-24-2013, 02:47 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
I remember that when he was drafted "chris pronger without the offence" was how his ceiling was often described. Darian Hatcher is another good comparible as well.
I know people will freak at the Pronger comparison, but when you qualify it with "without the PP ability", that's a major thing.

So much of what made Pronger special was that he was a big, mean, defensive defenseman, who also could dominate on a PP.

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09-24-2013, 02:47 PM
  #236
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Tinordi second of all time right behind Karlsson.

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09-24-2013, 02:48 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
How about we not go to extremes and just say that he is the second coming of his pop only bigger, meaner and a better skater.

Not a bad thing at all.
not at all

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09-24-2013, 03:05 PM
  #238
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Tinordi second of all time right behind Karlsson.
Tinordi is the second coming of Tinordi, who lead the way for Tinordi back when Tinordi was a little guy. This is why Tinordi choose 42 to honour Tinordi in a fashion only Tinordi would understand.



TINORDI

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Old
09-24-2013, 03:11 PM
  #239
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I absolutely HATE this nonsense. I am a black man, and I am tired of ignorant people like you spilling junk like this. The criticism Subban receives is not from racism.

People dislike Subban because of his personality, the team he plays for, and his tremendous skill. Are there racists in the NHL teams and media? I am sure there are, but there is no evidence that any of the criticisms Subban receives are from these racists.

So please stop with your ignorance, that annoys me almost as much as racism itself.
These are based on my own personal experiences with the mindset of hockey people and fans and some in relation to PK directly.

I used to work with someone (white male mid 50's) who did part time scouting with The Brampton Battalion and who scouted hockey for decades. He interviewed PK and his coaches when Pk was eligible to be drafted into the OHL. He told me that PK was a typical black kid, nothing between his ears with red flags pertaining to violence. There were vague rumours PK pulled a knife on a player in midget. They were going to pass on him if given the chance to draft him. Years later and having met other people who know PK well I am convinced these comments were ridiculous and full of harmful stereotypes .

A friend of mine who coached 12 years in Vaughan Panthers program, trained as such in coaching clinics, and who is a so called grass roots hockey person, openly refers to PK as Mulignan, which is a racially offensive term which literally means Eggplant.

I am not painting the world with the mindset of just these individuals , but I am experienced enough in my own life to know discrimination and racism comes in overt and hidden forms. The old guard hockey media like Cherry are encouraged through the reward system (salary driven by ratings) to highlight , and ridicule, players that seemingly don't confirm to good ole Canadian Hockey values . Of course in the delivery of the message euphemisms are developed to veil the inderlying discomfort about players that are different . People like Mike Richards have tenacity and don't back down, people shaped like PK haven't learned to be humble and fail to know their place.

In summary, hockey is shaped, operated and given commentary by people who are overwhelmingly Caucasian . We are not enlightened enough yet to be free of bias against people outside this group. That's life.


Last edited by Agnostic: 09-24-2013 at 03:20 PM.
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Old
09-24-2013, 03:22 PM
  #240
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In all honestly, the best comparison right now for Tinordi is the Komisarek we once knew and loved.

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Old
09-24-2013, 03:25 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
In all honestly, the best comparison right now for Tinordi is the Komisarek we once knew and loved.
Except Komisarek wasn't a fluid skater like Tinordi.

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09-24-2013, 03:26 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
These are based on my own personal experiences with the mindset of hockey people and fans and some in relation to PK directly.

I used to work with someone (white male mid 50's) who did part time scouting with The Brampton Battalion and who scouted hockey for decades. He interviewed PK and his coaches when Pk was eligible to be drafted into the OHL. He told me that PK was a typical black kid, nothing between his ears with red flags pertaining to violence. There were vague rumours PK pulled a knife on a player in midget. They were going to pass on him if given the chance to draft him. Years later and having met other people who know PK well I am convinced these comments were ridiculous and full of harmful stereotypes .

A friend of mine who coached 12 years in Vaughan Panthers program, trained as such in coaching clinics, and who is a so called grass roots hockey person, openly refers to PK as Mulignan, which is a racially offensive term which literally means Eggplant.

I am not painting the world with the mindset of just these individuals , but I am experienced enough in my own life to know discrimination and racism comes in overt and hidden forms. The old guard hockey media like Cherry are encouraged through the reward system (salary driven by ratings) to highlight , and ridicule, players that seemingly don't confirm to good ole Canadian Hockey values . Of course in the delivery of the message euphemisms are developed to veil the inderlying discomfort about players that are different . People like Mike Richards have tenacity and don't back down, people shaped like PK haven't learned to be humble and fail to know their place.

In summary, hockey is shaped, operated and given commentary by people who are overwhelmingly Caucasian . We are not enlightened enough yet to be free of bias against people outside this group. That's life.
Everyone knows there are racists within the sport. Hell, there are racists within every line of work.

But people aren't saying that PK wouldn't be an ideal captain because of his race, it's because of his personality. Not that I have a problem with his personality at all, it's just not not ideal for a captain. Same way Patrick Kane wouldn't be a logical captain. Or Ovechkin, despite him wearing the "C", there are plenty of critics of naming him the captain.

PK is a fun loving extrovert, and generally those types of guys don't make good captains.

The guys who do are the Giontas, the Iginlas, the guys who are even keel, even tempered and never get too high or too low.


Now let's move on from the is discussion.

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Old
09-24-2013, 03:27 PM
  #243
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In all honestly, the best comparison right now for Tinordi is the Komisarek we once knew and loved.
I don't see it. Tinordi is a better fighter at his age, better skater, better defensively, etc... The Komisarek we once knew and loved took 5 years to develop into something below-average. Comparing Tinordi currently even to Komisarek's prime is an insult to Tinordi.

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09-24-2013, 03:28 PM
  #244
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Except Komisarek wasn't a fluid skater like Tinordi.
Sure, I thought about going on an in-depth analysis of their differences in my previous post, but figured people would get the idea.

I like to think Tinordi has a bit more upside to his game both offensively and defensively, but generally speaking, what we expect out of Tinordi is pretty much exactly what we had from Komisarek in his good days, and it goes as far as the whole captaincy talk as well.

Let's not forget Komi"shrek" was a legit number 2 at one point.

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09-24-2013, 03:29 PM
  #245
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
In all honestly, the best comparison right now for Tinordi is the Komisarek we once knew and loved.
Unless Tinordi can develop his puck skills, I'd say it's a good comparison. Tinordi will likely have a longer career and could have a bigger impact because of his skating but there's no guarantee.

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09-24-2013, 03:33 PM
  #246
poetryinmotion
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Let's not forget Komi"shrek" was a legit number 2 at one point.
That's thanks to Markov, in now way was he ever a legit number 2.

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09-24-2013, 03:35 PM
  #247
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That's thanks to Markov, in now way was he ever a legit number 2.
Like it or not, he was pretty darn effective at his role until Lucic pummeled him face.

I'm pretty sure that whole "Markov made him" started after that incident. Before that, he was a fan favorite, and he had reasons to be.

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09-24-2013, 03:41 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Lebowski View Post
Like it or not, he was pretty darn effective at his role until Lucic pummeled him face.

I'm pretty sure that whole "Markov made him" started after that incident. Before that, he was a fan favorite, and he had reasons to be.
All he was good for is being a 'steady' defensive presence: crushing bodies along the boards, and then passing the puck to Markov who took care of the rest.

His one glorious moment of his whole career was intercepting McCabe's pass to Kaberle and score on a breakaway. Otherwise a black hole offensively and a deer in headlights with the puck, absolutely no support on the rush, and kept coughing it up at the blue line in enemy territory.

When his one redeeming skill got taken away from him (indimidation) he got exposed for the bad hockey player he really is.

Tinordi is a far cry from Komisarek even at this age. He's involved offensively and taking care of buisness in his own end effectively, much more than Komisarek's one dimesion (hitting) could bring on the back-end, combining speed, defensive awareness, and a monster reach.

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09-24-2013, 03:45 PM
  #249
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
These are based on my own personal experiences with the mindset of hockey people and fans and some in relation to PK directly.

I used to work with someone (white male mid 50's) who did part time scouting with The Brampton Battalion and who scouted hockey for decades. He interviewed PK and his coaches when Pk was eligible to be drafted into the OHL. He told me that PK was a typical black kid, nothing between his ears with red flags pertaining to violence. There were vague rumours PK pulled a knife on a player in midget. They were going to pass on him if given the chance to draft him. Years later and having met other people who know PK well I am convinced these comments were ridiculous and full of harmful stereotypes .

A friend of mine who coached 12 years in Vaughan Panthers program, trained as such in coaching clinics, and who is a so called grass roots hockey person, openly refers to PK as Mulignan, which is a racially offensive term which literally means Eggplant.

I am not painting the world with the mindset of just these individuals , but I am experienced enough in my own life to know discrimination and racism comes in overt and hidden forms. The old guard hockey media like Cherry are encouraged through the reward system (salary driven by ratings) to highlight , and ridicule, players that seemingly don't confirm to good ole Canadian Hockey values . Of course in the delivery of the message euphemisms are developed to veil the inderlying discomfort about players that are different . People like Mike Richards have tenacity and don't back down, people shaped like PK haven't learned to be humble and fail to know their place.
You say you are not painting the world with the mindset of just those individuals, but your posts say otherwise.

I have NO problem with you saying that the part-time scout and your friend are two racists, their words give you good reason to believe that. However, when you foolishly assume that others who dislike and criticize PK also must be racists, you have become almost as ignorant as the racists, if not just as ignorant.

I would not be at all surprised if Cherry was indeed racists towards PK, he has been racists towards European and french players in the past, so that wouldnt be shocking.

However, as a 6 foot, 260 pounds black man who has falling victim to incorrect and hurtful assumptions because of what might be true of others who look like me, I genuinely sorrow for non-blacks who are falsely accused of racism because of racists who look like them.

Dude, racism goes both ways. I would go as far to say that it is racist of you to think that because a white man dislikes and criticizes a black man, there has to be some form of racism involved. That is ludicrous.

There is racism in the hockey world, most definitely, but you are not God, unless it is plain-fully obvious as in the case of the two men you mentioned, please do not assume one is racist, that makes you as ignorant as the two men you mentioned.

When Martin Luther said that he one day hoped that people would be judged not by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character, it also also applied to people's perceptions of non-blacks.

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09-24-2013, 03:50 PM
  #250
Monctonscout
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Unless Tinordi can develop his puck skills, I'd say it's a good comparison. Tinordi will likely have a longer career and could have a bigger impact because of his skating but there's no guarantee.
Tinordi is already a better puckhandler than Komisarek was at his best. Not even close.

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