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Zack Kassian

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Old
09-24-2013, 03:27 PM
  #126
TOML
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
Lol

You clearly have never played hockey. Firstly, having sub 10% body fat vs. 12-15% body fat does not help you in a game like hockey. It might increase your chances of landing a magazing cover, but it won't help your athletic achievement in any way. Kassian in that picture is clearly still fairly "ripped".

Kassian's issues are not with his size and strength. They are with his hockey IQ.

All of that being said, it appears Kassian has worked very hard on his fitness:

Hmm... Seems to help Lucic when he's in fairly good shape though. Coincidence, i'm sure.

Played hockey though, and i would be the first to concur that being in better shape helps. A lot.

Yes, it's good that he apparently is working on it, but all i'm suggesting is that Kassian works on his fitness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
This square peg is going to have to devote a lot of time and effort to being sanded into something completely different if it wants to fit into that round hole as well as a round peg does.
ie. He needs to get in comparatively good shape and receive proper coaching.

fyi. A rough-grit belt sander may help you with your peg problem.

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09-24-2013, 03:55 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Bankerguy View Post
Everyone is getting WAY to complicated here.


Lets look at the facts:

He's 6'3, 220lbs and skates quite well for a big man.

He's got sweet hands

He hits hard, and can fight...i mean really fight.

Scoring history, he's only played 83 NHL games.....spread over 3 seasons and he's only 22..so he hasnt really had a full season to show what he can do.

He has scored at just under a PPG pace at the AHL and played quite well in the OHL.


He has considerable value all things considered!!!
anyone who doesn't think so is a hockey NOOB, or a Canuck hater.
Your facts are ridiculous:

Skates quite well?? Compared to who? He got suspended because he couldn't figure out how to stop using his skates and flailed carelessly into the boards, limbs flying everywhere. He's a gorilla on skates, not Kurt frickin' Browning.

Sweet hands? Where? When he's bigger and more physically developed than all of his opponents like in junior? Sure. NHL? He can't put up close to 20 even playing a good chunk of the season with pure skill!

Hits hard? Yeah, if he can ever learn how to get within 3 feet of a decent player. Who cares if he can lay the body on marginal 4th liners.

Fights well? I don't necessarily want to disagree, but I also think that if he was a righty, he would've never KO'd anybody. Being a lefty and a relative unknown, especially in the west, gave him an advantage that I don't think he has anymore. Definitely has power but his KOs on Eager and Sestito were more out of surprise than power, IMO.

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09-24-2013, 04:04 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by CookieCrumbs View Post
Kassian is going to rip it up this season with the Sedins. There was zero reason for AV to take him off that line.
I think the Sedin's best days are behind them

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09-24-2013, 05:36 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by TOML View Post
Hmm... Seems to help Lucic when he's in fairly good shape though. Coincidence, i'm sure.

Played hockey though, and i would be the first to concur that being in better shape helps. A lot.

Yes, it's good that he apparently is working on it, but all i'm suggesting is that Kassian works on his fitness.

ie. He needs to get in comparatively good shape and receive proper coaching.

fyi. A rough-grit belt sander may help you with your peg problem.
My point was that "ripped"-ness doesn't correspond directly to how good of shape you are in. Having a small layer of fat is not an indication of being in bad shape, particularly in hockey.

In the picture you posted, Kassian has more fat than Lucic, however, he's still relatively lean. Anyone who's ever played sports competitively or weight lifted, knows that small layer of fat is meaningless for anything but aesthetics. In fact, having ultra low body fats can impeded your ability to perform athletically.

It's also interesting that you use Lucic as an example of a guy to look up to in terms of being in shape. He has his own problems this year:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/ar...t-1320047.html
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/t...-out-of-shape/

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09-24-2013, 05:38 PM
  #130
Sergei Shirokov
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Originally Posted by dave babych returns View Post
But until then he is just a tantalizing bottom six player, too good for the fourth line and not nearly consistent enough for the top six.
This is a very fair, and accurate statement IMO.

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09-24-2013, 05:41 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by bobg1 View Post
I think the Sedin's best days are behind them
Agreed. It's not 2005. Kassian is not Anson Carter. The Sedin's no longer have the speed and quickness to simply feed the puck to a big body in front. The Sedins will require a lot more talent on their wing to be successful.

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09-24-2013, 05:50 PM
  #132
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I still can't believe the steal Buffalo pulled in that trade. A legit top 6 skilled forward for a lesser skilled version of
Steve Bernier.

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09-24-2013, 05:56 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by bobg1 View Post
I think the Sedin's best days are behind them
The Sedins at even less than their best are still amongst the top players in the league. And will be for a few more years.

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09-24-2013, 06:13 PM
  #134
Kirk Mclean
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Originally Posted by bobg1 View Post
I think the Sedin's best days are behind them
Agreed. No longer the 3rd/4th best forwards in the league.

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09-24-2013, 06:14 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by blankall View Post
My point was that "ripped"-ness doesn't correspond directly to how good of shape you are in. Having a small layer of fat is not an indication of being in bad shape, particularly in hockey.

In the picture you posted, Kassian has more fat than Lucic, however, he's still relatively lean. Anyone who's ever played sports competitively or weight lifted, knows that small layer of fat is meaningless for anything but aesthetics. In fact, having ultra low body fats can impeded your ability to perform athletically.

It's also interesting that you use Lucic as an example of a guy to look up to in terms of being in shape. He has his own problems this year:
In this case i think it does. Esp. when Lucic is the bar. If Kassian takes, what, good supplements?, then he might become an elite powerforward as well.

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09-24-2013, 06:20 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
The Sedins at even less than their best are still amongst the top players in the league. And will be for a few more years.
I'm not so sure about that, this is a league that is boasting quite a few young talented players in Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos, Tavares, etc. I actually like the twins, solid players, but I think they had their moment in the top 5 and the Canucks really couldn't capitalize on their peak years of 2009 through 2011. They are back to being around ppg players though, still top 6 talent, but at age 33 (in a few days), these next few years will be crucial for them. I don't think they are the same players that made any winger you threw on their line overly productive. They have never been the fastest players either and watching them last year, they looked like they lost a bit of a step and it was a shortened season, which should have benefit the older guys.

Kind of curious how long Gillis signs them as well, I wouldn't do more than 5 years.

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09-24-2013, 06:24 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by TOML View Post
In this case i think it does. Esp. when Lucic is the bar. If Kassian takes, what, good supplements?, then he might become an elite powerforward as well.
It also takes skill and hockey IQ. Kassian has the former, very very minute amounts of the latter, which is what hurts him.

He desperately needs to be taken under the wing of a player that is an older version of himself, if Todd was around, it would have been a great mentor ship for him. I remember when Leclair was with the Pens for a brief period, for however brief it was, it had a huge impact on Ryan Malone and he was a different player after. There really is no one like that there for him, as for being in shape, it could help him do what he does now, better, but that's about it, if he knew how to use his physical tools, it'd be different. He's so brain fart prone, it's just a matter of time before he crosses the line too far this time. That worries me, no matter how much Canucks fans want to defend the kid after him being a Canuck for barely a full season, some of us have seen him longer and know exactly what kind of stupidity he is capable of with those lapses in judgement.

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I also know karma catches up to everyone.

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09-24-2013, 06:25 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
I'm not so sure about that, this is a league that is boasting quite a few young talented players in Crosby, Malkin, Giroux, Stamkos, Tavares, etc. I actually like the twins, solid players, but I think they had their moment in the top 5 and the Canucks really couldn't capitalize on their peak years of 2009 through 2011. They are back to being around ppg players though, still top 6 talent, but at age 33 (in a few days), these next few years will be crucial for them. I don't think they are the same players that made any winger you threw on their line overly productive. They have never been the fastest players either and watching them last year, they looked like they lost a bit of a step and it was a shortened season, which should have benefit the older guys.

Kind of curious how long Gillis signs them as well, I wouldn't do more than 5 years.
It's actually interesting that in pre-season the Canucks had to run a certain distance in under twelve minutes and Santorelli and the Sedins were the only ones to do it. The fact that they don't have to rely on their foot speed is actually a plus for these guys as they are so cerebral. They are in great physical shape. I could see them playing for another 4 years or so after this year.
I don't see anymore Art Rosses or Hart's in their future but I think they're probably point a game or so players. That's not bad when you consider there are two of them.

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Old
09-24-2013, 06:29 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
It's actually interesting that in pre-season the Canucks had to run a certain distance in under twelve minutes and Santorelli and the Sedins were the only ones to do it. The fact that they don't have to rely on their foot speed is actually a plus for these guys as they are so cerebral. They are in great physical shape.
I don't see anymore Art Rosses or Hart's in their future but I think they're probably point a game or so players. That's not bad when you consider there are two of them.
Are you seriously saying running fast is in direct correlation to how fast you can skate?

I am guessing you don't play ice hockey, if you did, you would know that isn't even remotely true. It's your stride, it takes different muscles to push out side to side rather than running which propels you forward. I've seen people that run incredibly fast and long distances, try to skate fast and they realize it's not that easy, try going to the gym and working out your adductor and abductor muscles, have fun walking the next few days after.

And yes, they are smart with their puck possession, but if players can close the gap faster, it changes how smart they can be. Their quick passes down low won't mean as much if defenders can cover them faster. The game is constantly changing, players are constantly finding ways to get an edge on others. The twins will still be solid players for maybe 3-4 more years at best.

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09-24-2013, 06:33 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
Are you seriously saying running fast is in direct correlation to how fast you can skate?

I am guessing you don't play ice hockey, if you did, you would know that isn't even remotely true. It's your stride, it takes different muscles to push out side to side rather than running which propels you forward.

And yes, they are smart with their puck possession, but if players can close the gap faster, it changes how smart they can be. Their quick passes down low won't mean as much if defenders can cover them faster. The game is constantly changing, players are constantly finding ways to get an edge on others. The twins will still be solid players for maybe 3-4 more years at best.
No, I'm suggesting that the Sedins are in amazing physical shape. And yes I do play hockey and have for years.
They haven't lost a step that I've seen. I question whether you've actually seen them play much as they were never that fast and still play at the same speed. Anyways, this board always overrates potential and underrates actual achievements. They'll clock in at their usual point per game and out produce many of the young guns. Like I said not n the Stamkos Crosby level but in the group just below it. I agree that they probably have another 3 or 4 years of being top line players. They've been a treat to watch and will be on their new contract as well.
Anyways, the thread is about Kassian, so I'll move on from the gratuitous comments by an earlier poster on the Sedins.


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Old
09-24-2013, 06:46 PM
  #141
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In this case i think it does. Esp. when Lucic is the bar. If Kassian takes, what, good supplements?, then he might become an elite powerforward as well.
That was actually the exact oppossite of my point. From all accounts, Kassian is impressing with his fitness. As other posters have stated, Kassian lacks hockey IQ.

Being a good hockey player is like being a good QB, as oppossed to a RB. You need to be able to think the game at all times, make quick decisions, create plays, etc..It's not a simple matter of get ball and go in straight line.

Part of Kassian's problem are also the exectations placed on him. He'll always be compared to Hodgson, and he's being expected to pick up physical play for softer players on the team. As such, he's being reckless to try and impress.

Long story short, Kassian needs to start learning. Taking protein powder is the least of his worries. He's not going to become a good top six NHLer by merely bragging about how many teeth he lost in the last fight.

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09-24-2013, 07:30 PM
  #142
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Kind of OT, but Daniel looked a lot worse than Henrik last season. I think the days where you can refer to both of them together all the time are also past.

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09-24-2013, 07:59 PM
  #143
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Kind of OT, but Daniel looked a lot worse than Henrik last season. I think the days where you can refer to both of them together all the time are also past.
Yea, he's been off since Keith domed him. Henrik is the better of the two right not, but hoo knows this season.

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09-24-2013, 08:03 PM
  #144
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Canucks won't move Kassian until he gets to play Edmonton once more to knock out Eager again.

I am not serious. I abhor violence.

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09-24-2013, 09:40 PM
  #145
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Fights well? I don't necessarily want to disagree, but I also think that if he was a righty, he would've never KO'd anybody. Being a lefty and a relative unknown, especially in the west, gave him an advantage that I don't think he has anymore. Definitely has power but his KOs on Eager and Sestito were more out of surprise than power, IMO.
So he's only a good fighter because he's a lefty and surprised people? You might want to look into his Junior career - where he was one of the most feared fighters in that league, fighting and beating 18 and 19 year old heavyweights when he was 16...

There are certainly question marks as to whether he will be able to put everything together, as there are with most hulking 22 year olds. However there's absolutely no questioning his fighting ability. The guy has fast hands, is accurate, hits ridiculously hard and can take a punch like a 240lb enforcer. Don't believe me, head over to hockeyfights.com and watch his fight reel from Junior. Zack Kassian is a killer.

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09-24-2013, 10:39 PM
  #146
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You are joking right?

I think its been clearly pointed out that Gillis got fleeced hard in that trade, it has nothing to do with "Kassian being valuable" and more to do with Kassian turning into a grinder and losing value.

Players like Kassian get traded all the time, its pretty easy to find big bodied goons out there. Albiet Kassian is more skilled, but he has shown almost no signs that he will ever turn into a legit power forward in the ilk of Lucic.
really? care to list some of these trades? right.. didn't think so.

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09-24-2013, 11:11 PM
  #147
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Canucks won't move Kassian until he gets to play Edmonton once more to knock out Eager again.

I am not serious. I abhor violence.
Lets see what Big Mac says about that

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09-25-2013, 12:25 AM
  #148
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Kassian is better than people give him credit for. He's just 22, has great size/strength, and solid offensive talent. He'll be a quality top 6 power forward in the relatively near future, and I'm sure he's not someone the Nucks would be interested in trading?

Is he as good as Hodgson? Definitely not, but I think he'll be a good player.

Only time will tell but honesty, he reminds me a lot of and I see him turning out to be another Ben Eager.

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09-25-2013, 01:10 AM
  #149
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Only time will tell but honesty, he reminds me a lot of and I see him turning out to be another Ben Eager.
Same hockey IQ, Eager used to show flashes of being a guy that could be a damn solid power forward, but well...you can't teach hockey IQ I guess. He did have moments as a Hawk where he looked like he would be putting it all together and be a guy that could throw them down and put up 20 goals, but then...his brain. Zack is on that same path, but let Canucks fans pretend he's their savior.

Canucks were bound to have their own "Stojanov for Naslund" type trade.

Hodgson is a stud of a player, Sabres got an amazing player out of that deal.

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09-25-2013, 01:13 AM
  #150
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No, I'm suggesting that the Sedins are in amazing physical shape. And yes I do play hockey and have for years.
They haven't lost a step that I've seen. I question whether you've actually seen them play much as they were never that fast and still play at the same speed. Anyways, this board always overrates potential and underrates actual achievements. They'll clock in at their usual point per game and out produce many of the young guns. Like I said not n the Stamkos Crosby level but in the group just below it. I agree that they probably have another 3 or 4 years of being top line players. They've been a treat to watch and will be on their new contract as well.
Anyways, the thread is about Kassian, so I'll move on from the gratuitous comments by an earlier poster on the Sedins.
Isn't that what you Canucks fans are doing with Zack Kassian?

But what do I know? I have only seen him play for the Petes for a few years and his time with the Spitfires, Pirates and Sabres. I have nothing on 60+ games as a Canuck.

I'm still getting a chuckle out of the guys that one Canucks poster name dropped as guys that developed later, all guys that were never drafted higher than the 3rd round, then you have your golden nugget...Ben Eager, a 1st round pick, same kind of pedigree basically, that is completely ignored until now.

Oh my.


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