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A Real 4th Line Please

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Old
11-22-2006, 09:43 PM
  #1
nyhabsfan
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A Real 4th Line Please

I just don't understand why we don't roll 4 offensive lines.

It's a long grueling season and 4 lines would keep the entire team fresh!!!

I just don't get what Carbo sees in Downey and Murray who are both being playing terrible this year. Even Begin who has played better has absolutely no offensive instincts,

Why not bring up Lappy and Kots and let them play with Samsanov on the 4th line when Higgins comes back.

Higgins---Koivu---Ryder
Lats---Plekanec---Kovalev
Johnson--Bonk---Perezoghin
Samsanov--Lappy---Kots

waive Downey and send Murray to the minors. Begin as a extra forward.

This would require trading a defenseman as well, and that's where things get interesting.

Souray---Rivet
Komi---Markov
Dandy--Streit
Boullion---Nimminnaa

8's a crowd... waive or trade Nimminna for a mid round pick.

rotate ALL the defenseman to keep them fresh for the postseason too.

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Old
11-22-2006, 09:57 PM
  #2
Jakomyte
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Something tells me Begin is not going to be watching from the press box. I would hope for something like this seeing as Murray and Downey have been garbage so far:

Samsonov-Koivu-Ryder
Higgins-Plekanec-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Bonk-Johnson
Begin-Lapierre-Latendresse

There are four lines you can role!

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Old
11-22-2006, 10:00 PM
  #3
Captain Saku
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
Something tells me Begin is not going to be watching from the press box. I would hope for something like this seeing as Murray and Downey have been garbage so far:

Samsonov-Koivu-Ryder
Higgins-Plekanec-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Bonk-Johnson
Begin-Lapierre-Latendresse

There are four lines you can role!
Latendresse - Koivu - Ryder
Samsonov - Higgins - Kovalev
Perez - Bonk - Johnson
Begin - Plekanec - Lappy/kots

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Old
11-22-2006, 10:04 PM
  #4
znk
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A- Playing 7 D is a great way to smoothly get an injured D back to game shape.
B- Higgins is Hurt you have to juggle the lines a Bit.
C- We are winning.
D- Laperrier ahead of Begin...just like that? I think not....not just yet.

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Old
11-22-2006, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
A- Playing 7 D is a great way to smoothly get an injured D back to game shape.
B- Higgins is Hurt you have to juggle the lines a Bit.

C- We are winning.
D- Laperrier ahead of Begin...just like that? I think not....not just yet.
I thought the same as A and B with respect to tonight's lineup.

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Old
11-22-2006, 10:29 PM
  #6
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I think the problem is that the 4th line is lacking in intensity and quality. Murray is jus plain awfull this season while Downey is realy not the guy to carry the load on that line. I can't believe that none of Lapierre, Chipchura or Ferland are below him in the depth chart.

To me there are few things that seem obvious after few games...
Samsonov does not click with the other team mates. He needs to simplify is game quite a lot. Plekanek and Kovalev are not that bad togetter, I think that the guy that could realy get the second line going is Higgins when he comes back. In the mean time I would keep Samsonov, Kovalev and Pleks together.

So when Higgins is back I would realy like to see the following team:

Higgins, Plekanek, Kovalev
Latendresse, Koivu, Ryder
Perezhogin, Bonk, Johnson
Begin, Lapierre, (Samsonov/Downey/Ferland)

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Old
11-22-2006, 10:34 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
I think the problem is that the 4th line is lacking in intensity and quality. Murray is jus plain awfull this season while Downey is realy not the guy to carry the load on that line. I can't believe that none of Lapierre, Chipchura or Ferland are below him in the depth chart.

To me there are few things that seem obvious after few games...
Samsonov does not click with the other team mates. He needs to simplify is game quite a lot. Plekanek and Kovalev are not that bad togetter, I think that the guy that could realy get the second line going is Higgins when he comes back. In the mean time I would keep Samsonov, Kovalev and Pleks together.

So when Higgins is back I would realy like to see the following team:

Higgins, Plekanek, Kovalev
Latendresse, Koivu, Ryder
Perezhogin, Bonk, Johnson
Begin, Lapierre, (Samsonov/Downey/Ferland)
I just can't see Lats taking Higgins spot... the 1st line was so dangerous with Higgins, Koivu and Ryder.

Lats isn't a 4th line player, but maybe with Kovalev setting him up, he would look better on the second line with Kovy and Plekanec!

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Old
11-22-2006, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
I just can't see Lats taking Higgins spot... the 1st line was so dangerous with Higgins, Koivu and Ryder.

Lats isn't a 4th line player, but maybe with Kovalev setting him up, he would look better on the second line with Kovy and Plekanec!
Apart from the first 2 or 3 games i dont see what people found so amazing from the Higgins-Koivu-Ryder line. Ryder and Koivu both went to sleep as Higgins carried the load. I had this argument with a couple of my friends and they agreed, the first line only looked that good because of Higgins so to say that the complete first line was so dangerous is a false statement if you ask me.

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11-22-2006, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ShuttFan View Post
I thought the same as A and B with respect to tonight's lineup.
Yeah the line juggling was interesting tonight. Kovalev, Murray and Begin played a shift that was nearly a minute long. I have to assume that was a shift error.

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Old
11-22-2006, 11:59 PM
  #10
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JayDee96.....

But you remember in the playoffs last yr, Higgins was on a tear going in and scored in the first game...anways.. koivu goes down...and higgins looks lost out there... and sure try him out with kovalev or on a diff line.. im fine with that ....i jus think him and koivu work so well...bigtime chemistry...but then lats has half of what higgins has had sence he has been with koivu.....

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Old
11-23-2006, 12:30 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by DieHardHabs View Post
JayDee96.....

But you remember in the playoffs last yr, Higgins was on a tear going in and scored in the first game...anways.. koivu goes down...and higgins looks lost out there... and sure try him out with kovalev or on a diff line.. im fine with that ....i jus think him and koivu work so well...bigtime chemistry...but then lats has half of what higgins has had sence he has been with koivu.....

Higgins and Koivu together, Im all for it.
but I think with Ryder or not the 2 will do well. ryder is not what makes those 2 look good. You can put Lats with Koivu and and Higgin s and I think we would have a better line then with higgs, koivu and ryder. Lats and Koivu seem to click well together, almost as well as Koivu and higgins..In my mind I think Higgins and Lats can click just as well so the 3 of them together would be great. Thats how i see it.

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Old
11-23-2006, 10:12 AM
  #12
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Ryder is like most scorers, he's streaky. He'll learn to be more consistent just give him time. He's been physical and great on the PK recently.

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Old
11-23-2006, 10:16 AM
  #13
Stefan_Latulippe
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Well according to this poster --> Catch22 ... Downey and Murray are PERFECT players on the 4th line, so why do you want them out?

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Old
11-23-2006, 10:40 AM
  #14
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Originally Posted by Stefan_Latulippe View Post
Well according to this poster --> Catch22 ... Downey and Murray are PERFECT players on the 4th line, so why do you want them out?
Why quote someone who hasn't even posted in this thread? I understand you have a chip on your shoulder, Stefan, but you're overdoing it and it gets tiresome.

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Old
11-23-2006, 11:21 AM
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You don't roll 4 lines for all sorts of reasons. The biggest one is it allows you to give extra icetime to your more talented players. Another is the versatility it gives a coach; if he wants to change up the tempo of a game he can send out the grinders, if the other team is starting to take liberties he can send out the grinders, if our team starts to lack intensity he can send out the grinders, and so on.

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Old
11-23-2006, 11:28 AM
  #16
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
I just can't see Lats taking Higgins spot... the 1st line was so dangerous with Higgins, Koivu and Ryder.

Lats isn't a 4th line player, but maybe with Kovalev setting him up, he would look better on the second line with Kovy and Plekanec!

I feel Higgins is at a point in his development where he makes other players arround him better. No suprise the first line was better with him. I think the second line would benefit him even more and would likely be or first line. I just think at this point we would benefit more from a resurected 2nd line and keeping the first as is.

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Old
11-23-2006, 11:30 AM
  #17
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Samsonov-Koivu-Kovalev
Ryder-Higgins-Latendresse
Johnson-Bonk-Perezhogin
Bégin-Lapierre-Ferland

Send Murray down, keep Downey as extra attacker.

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Old
11-23-2006, 11:31 AM
  #18
Habruti!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieHardHabs View Post
JayDee96.....

But you remember in the playoffs last yr, Higgins was on a tear going in and scored in the first game...anways.. koivu goes down...and higgins looks lost out there... and sure try him out with kovalev or on a diff line.. im fine with that ....i jus think him and koivu work so well...bigtime chemistry...but then lats has half of what higgins has had sence he has been with koivu.....
We never played him with Plekanek who was one of our best player in last year playoff. I think they would have clicked as they use to in Hamilton.

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Old
11-23-2006, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
You don't roll 4 lines for all sorts of reasons. The biggest one is it allows you to give extra icetime to your more talented players. Another is the versatility it gives a coach; if he wants to change up the tempo of a game he can send out the grinders, if the other team is starting to take liberties he can send out the grinders, if our team starts to lack intensity he can send out the grinders, and so on.
I agree with this, however Murray seems to be a few steps behind for each shift, not much of an intimidater, he's not accomplishing what is required. I have not seen enough of Hamilton this year to say someone else could do better though...

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Old
11-23-2006, 11:34 AM
  #20
Habruti!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HIGGINS! View Post
Samsonov-Koivu-Kovalev
Ryder-Higgins-Latendresse
Johnson-Bonk-Perezhogin
Bégin-Lapierre-Ferland

Send Murray down, keep Downey as extra attacker.
So if I get this rigth you would shift Higgins to center, bench Plekanek and change all lines except the third?

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Old
11-23-2006, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SakuCKoivu View Post
Latendresse - Koivu - Ryder
Samsonov - Higgins - Kovalev
Perez - Bonk - Johnson
Begin - Plekanec - Lappy/kots
Yep, I think this is the best lineup

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Old
11-23-2006, 01:22 PM
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I was at the game last night and Murray was just plain atrocious. He managed to take two bad penalties playing only 6 minutes. He looked pissed and he slammed his stick on the boards a few times.

He is -6 so far, he doesn't forecheck like he did last year and he's not playing his role at the moment so he's pretty useless.

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Old
11-23-2006, 01:39 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Ryan Walter View Post
I was at the game last night and Murray was just plain atrocious. He managed to take two bad penalties playing only 6 minutes. He looked pissed and he slammed his stick on the boards a few times.

He is -6 so far, he doesn't forecheck like he did last year and he's not playing his role at the moment so he's pretty useless.
I thought he was fine. He hustled and hit, which is his job. The two penalties were both borderline calls that Carbonneau complained about. The ref should have kept his whistle in his pocket.

We can't have four offensive lines. As it is, we only had one line that was working. Now the first line is going a bit again, so we have two. And it looks like Kovalev has decided he wants to work a bit this month (or his knee is feeling better, take your pick), so maybe we will have three.

But you need your lines to bring energy and control the puck down low and wear the other team out. You can't have four offensive lines because they will turn the puck over too much and not play defense. And we don't have enough powerforward types to play four lines, we'd have four soft lines. That's no good.

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Old
11-23-2006, 01:52 PM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Habruti! View Post
So if I get this rigth you would shift Higgins to center, bench Plekanek and change all lines except the third?
Hope that ends the slump.


Actually, I've found the lines a bit awkward all year because we're short a C.

I don't like the idea of Higgins at C with Kovalev/Samasonov but it's worth a shot. It's all about roles and getting the most out of your guys. Plekanec is a wonderful 4th line guy, a pain in the butt on the forecheck etc., but hasn't shown he's an asset with Kovalev. Begin as a C has weakened the 4th. If Higgins as a C is passable but we lose the exceptional player we had until the injury, what have we gained ?

The original idea of shedding Downey/Begin/Murray won't happen. There's always a place for role players. Downey may sit a lot, Murray may find himself in Hamilton for Lapierre soon, but Begin's job is safe. You need guys willing to get their hands dirty.

I think they'll see if Plekanec can play his game in spite of Kovalev's menacing presence, if not working, Higgins will get a shot and eventually, you'll probably see a move made when all the internal options have been tried.

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Old
11-23-2006, 02:17 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raketheleaves View Post
I thought he was fine. He hustled and hit, which is his job. The two penalties were both borderline calls that Carbonneau complained about. The ref should have kept his whistle in his pocket.
1)Fine? I don't want to see him playing bad then.
2)I think Begin hustled and hit, Murray was late on several plays.
3)Carbonneau argues about every single call anyway.

I agree that we need a gritty checking line don't get me wrong. I just don't think that Murray plays his role anymore. He was much more effective last year. I'd love to see Lapierre instead.

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