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Bergevin interview on 98.5

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Old
09-25-2013, 08:12 AM
  #101
Zathronas
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Except that the previous year we were bad at ES, a surpringly healthy roster all year, and we were dependent on inconsistent players. So it wasn't all that surprising that we ended up struggling the following year. Not to mention, we were also relying on kids that were just coming up and teir discipline was crap.
That being said, signing Lang and trading for Tanguay were good moves. Sadly both got big injuries.

I think we're in two completely different situations.
Don't you think that basing the team strength on a 48 game schedule might be faulty? Last year during the lockout I was explaining to the posters here that the team was not as bad as they showed but most of you were putting them in a lottery slot again.

This year I'm saying we should be cautious thinking they are a contender as they showed us they were far from it in the playoffs. Those who says we should dismantle some prospects to go for it are as deluded as those who said after the lockout they would be a lottery team.

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09-25-2013, 08:18 AM
  #102
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It isn't that we're tanking. Tanking teams don't bring in players like Briere and Murray. We are aiming to be competitive, and if our young guys develop quicker than expected, then we could surprise. It's just that we're not going "all-in".

Of our core guys, only two are well over 30. Those being Gionta and Markov. Most of the rest are very young (Patches, Subban, the Gallys, Eller), and a couple are in their prime (Pleks and Gorges). Price is 26, so he's just entering his prime, and he should be there for at least the next 6 years.

Given the overall makeup of the team, I think it makes the most sense to focus mostly on 2-3 years down the line. At that point, Patches, Subban, the Gallys, and Eller should all be in their primes or entering it. If Galchenyuk is a good 1st line center within 3 years, then him/Pleks should be an excellent one-two punch at center, as Pleks will only be 33 in three years time.

Guys like Gionta generally aren't that hard to replace through the free agency route. That is, after all, how we acquired Gionta to begin with. Of our key older guys, the only one that might be hard to replace is Markov. But with any luck at all, at least one of Tinordi and Beaulieu will develop into a good Top 4 D. If so, then a future Top 4 of Subban, Gorges, Emelin, and Tinordi/Beaulieu looks pretty good to me.

Now, for us to go "all-in" this year, we likely would have to give up at least one of the young guys I mentioned. Or we have to give up on someone like McCarron or Collberg, who are likely to be good Top 9 forwards in 2 or 3 years. We could be mortgaging the future to go all-in, largely on the basis of Markov's wonky knee and Price's unproven playoff record. I don't think that's the best course of action now. I think it's better to be patient, and to be satisfied for now with the fact that we should at least be competitive, and probably make the playoffs.

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09-25-2013, 08:32 AM
  #103
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I agree with Darth above but let me put it another way...
do we have the horse to go far in the playoffs. Who do we have that isa proven point per game in the playoff?

Plekanec
Bourque
Gionta
hasn't shown us anything in the playoffs

The gally's
Patch
Eller
Desharnais
doesn't have much experience in the playoffs

Brière is the ONLY guy who's a proven point per game in the playoffs and he is on his decline. Who's our Calder up front? and i'm talking now not next year or the year after that.

Our go to guy's are simply too young for a deep playoff run right now so what should we do? trade Galchenyuk Gallagher? Eller? Patch or Plekanec to get the experience we need? because that's the cost.

We are not a deep playoff team right now. Simple as that.

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09-25-2013, 08:53 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
I agree with Darth above but let me put it another way...
do we have the horse to go far in the playoffs. Who do we have that isa proven point per game in the playoff?

Plekanec
Bourque
Gionta
hasn't shown us anything in the playoffs

The gally's
Patch
Eller
Desharnais
doesn't have much experience in the playoffs

Brière is the ONLY guy who's a proven point per game in the playoffs and he is on his decline. Who's our Calder up front? and i'm talking now not next year or the year after that.

Our go to guy's are simply too young for a deep playoff run right now so what should we do? trade Galchenyuk Gallagher? Eller? Patch or Plekanec to get the experience we need? because that's the cost.

We are not a deep playoff team right now. Simple as that.
Plekanec was very good the year we beat out Pittsburgh and Washington. He played a lot of tough minutes against their top line and helped shut down their best players while also chipping in 11 points. Last yeat he had 4 points in 5 games, he had little help at center with Eller out and Desharnais struggling.

I think the Habs have something on offense that's good for playoff success in having 3 lines that can score, unfortunately by the 3rd game of the playoffs Eller Gionta Prust were all either out or useless and Pacioretty also played with a separated shoulder. Ryder turned into a ghost. No team can survive that many losses at one position, especially at playoff time.

As was stated above this year is not a "now or never" year but I think we have the assets to go a couple rounds and get the young guys some experience.

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09-25-2013, 08:53 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Except that the previous year we were bad at ES, a surpringly healthy roster all year, and we were dependent on inconsistent players. So it wasn't all that surprising that we ended up struggling the following year. Not to mention, we were also relying on kids that were just coming up and teir discipline was crap.
That being said, signing Lang and trading for Tanguay were good moves. Sadly both got big injuries.

I think we're in two completely different situations.
Both moronic moves, I can see now why you're at odds with the new GM, who understands where this team is relative to the league and is fixing it slowly.

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09-25-2013, 08:56 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Plekanec was very good the year we beat out Pittsburgh and Washington. He played a lot of tough minutes against their top line and helped shut down their best players while also chipping in 11 points. Last yeat he had 4 points in 5 games, he had little help at center with Eller out and Desharnais struggling.

I think the Habs have something on offense that's good for playoff success in having 3 lines that can score, unfortunately by the 3rd game of the playoffs Eller Gionta Prust were all either out or useless and Pacioretty also played with a separated shoulder. Ryder turned into a ghost. No team can survive that many losses at one position, especially at playoff time.

As was stated above this year is not a "now or never" year but I think we have the assets to go a couple rounds and get the young guys some experience.
I never said they weren't good in the playoffs I said who's our Calder?

I agree they will go into the playoffs and gain experience but the way some write posts here they see it as now or never and that is how they judge Bergevin's signings like Murray and Brière.

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09-25-2013, 09:07 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Both moronic moves, I can see now why you're at odds with the new GM, who understands where this team is relative to the league and is fixing it slowly.
Did we not trade a pick for Lang? Signing him would have been a good move, the picks lost for Lang and Tanguay were painful.

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09-25-2013, 09:08 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
I never said they weren't good in the playoffs I said who's our Calder?

I agree they will go into the playoffs and gain experience but the way some write posts here they see it as now or never and that is how they judge Bergevin's signings like Murray and Brière.
For us to win the cup our Conn Smythe ould have to be Subban or Price. Eventually Galchenyuk Gallagher or another young guy.

Last year if Price was playing at an all-star level we probably beat Ottawa even with Anderson playing well and the guys we had out.


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09-25-2013, 09:14 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
I never said they weren't good in the playoffs I said who's our Calder?

I agree they will go into the playoffs and gain experience but the way some write posts here they see it as now or never and that is how they judge Bergevin's signings like Murray and Brière.
Do you mean Conn Smythe?

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09-25-2013, 09:21 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by groovejuice View Post
Do you mean Conn Smythe?
I'm sorry that was stupid of me lol

Yes I was talking Conn Smythe

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09-25-2013, 09:26 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
For us to win the cup our Calder ould have to be Subban or Price.

Last year if Price was playing at an all-star level we probably beat Ottawa even with Anderson playing well and the guys we had out.
Right now Price is giving me cold sweats, I REALLY hope I'm wrong about this but I think he might be a playoff choker. The only time he was above .901 on saves pct was in 2010-11 in a 7 game stretch.

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09-25-2013, 09:30 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Monctonscout View Post
Did we not trade a pick for Lang? Signing him would have been a good move, the picks lost for Lang and Tanguay were painful.
In hindsight, yes. At the time, they were both good moves and both players helped our team when they were here.

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09-25-2013, 09:39 AM
  #113
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I've been frustrated many times by many different Habs administrations. So many promises, so many plans. But this is the first time in 15+ years that I believe that it's worth it to wait a few seasons and have a REAL contender team. I didn't know much about Bergevin before he got here and the more I get to know about him, the more I feel we're in good hands.

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09-25-2013, 09:42 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
Right now Price is giving me cold sweats, I REALLY hope I'm wrong about this but I think he might be a playoff choker. The only time he was above .901 on saves pct was in 2010-11 in a 7 game stretch.
The only real "coke" was last year.

In 2008 he was throw in too early as a 20 year old rookie and had a solid 1st round, though he struggled against Phillie.

2009 he only had half a team in front of him, Markov Lang Tanguay Plekanec S.Kostitsyn and other all out or playing with injuries. He got very little help and BG blew up the team the following summer.

2010 Halak was red hot and he carried the load.

2011 he outplayed(better save %) Thomas in that series and lost in game 7 OT, Boston went on to win the cup.

2012 no playoffs

2013 He had a rough time, then got hurt.

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09-25-2013, 09:45 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
Only if you're looking short term. It's not blind faith but a wait and see approach.

His overhaul of the front office, scout and development is nothing short of spectacular. This more than anything else will give positive results.

his draft of 2012 was great this year a bit less so but still good

his resigning may be good or bad it's still too early. I think that despite what the Desharnais and Moen hater thinks, one season does not make a bad player.

His FA signing are short term and stopgaps until the prospect are ready.

His trades has been good but not great.

I think those who hate MB already do not see anything but the short term.
No offence but claiming his front office moves have been "nothing short of spectacular" is not a wait and see approach. We have no idea if the guys he hired are doing a good job or not. A wait and see approach would be to wait 5+ years and see if our prospects develop properly or not.

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09-25-2013, 09:52 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
No offence but claiming his front office moves have been "nothing short of spectacular" is not a wait and see approach. We have no idea if the guys he hired are doing a good job or not. A wait and see approach would be to wait 5+ years and see if our prospects develop properly or not.
I agree that it's not a wait and see approach but I'm basing my commentary from what is said about it around the league.

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09-25-2013, 11:13 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
Don't you think that basing the team strength on a 48 game schedule might be faulty? Last year during the lockout I was explaining to the posters here that the team was not as bad as they showed but most of you were putting them in a lottery slot again.

This year I'm saying we should be cautious thinking they are a contender as they showed us they were far from it in the playoffs. Those who says we should dismantle some prospects to go for it are as deluded as those who said after the lockout they would be a lottery team.
The team can obviously regress as our big improvements came from young players (Subban, Eller, the Gallys). But I personally wouldn't bet against those 4 doing well again this year. In 09 it was a pretty safe bet that Kovalev wouldn't repeat, that Streit's 62 points would be hard to replace. Who you are expecting to have a down year that would cause us to struggle?

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Originally Posted by Darth Joker View Post
It isn't that we're tanking. Tanking teams don't bring in players like Briere and Murray. We are aiming to be competitive, and if our young guys develop quicker than expected, then we could surprise. It's just that we're not going "all-in".

Of our core guys, only two are well over 30. Those being Gionta and Markov. Most of the rest are very young (Patches, Subban, the Gallys, Eller), and a couple are in their prime (Pleks and Gorges). Price is 26, so he's just entering his prime, and he should be there for at least the next 6 years.

Given the overall makeup of the team, I think it makes the most sense to focus mostly on 2-3 years down the line. At that point, Patches, Subban, the Gallys, and Eller should all be in their primes or entering it. If Galchenyuk is a good 1st line center within 3 years, then him/Pleks should be an excellent one-two punch at center, as Pleks will only be 33 in three years time.

Guys like Gionta generally aren't that hard to replace through the free agency route. That is, after all, how we acquired Gionta to begin with. Of our key older guys, the only one that might be hard to replace is Markov. But with any luck at all, at least one of Tinordi and Beaulieu will develop into a good Top 4 D. If so, then a future Top 4 of Subban, Gorges, Emelin, and Tinordi/Beaulieu looks pretty good to me.

Now, for us to go "all-in" this year, we likely would have to give up at least one of the young guys I mentioned. Or we have to give up on someone like McCarron or Collberg, who are likely to be good Top 9 forwards in 2 or 3 years. We could be mortgaging the future to go all-in, largely on the basis of Markov's wonky knee and Price's unproven playoff record. I don't think that's the best course of action now. I think it's better to be patient, and to be satisfied for now with the fact that we should at least be competitive, and probably make the playoffs.
By that logic Chicago should not have signed Hossa when they did since their star players (Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook) were all so young and 2-3 years away from their prime.

Nobody is saying we should go all in like Pittsburgh last year. But trading/signing guys that address a need that you plan on having around for the next little while makes a lot of sense. Ottawa isn't going all in by trading for Ryan, they are still building, but now they have another core player.

Simply put it's never a bad time to acquire good players that are likely to stick around for a while.

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I agree that it's not a wait and see approach but I'm basing my commentary from what is said about it around the league.
Which basically means you have faith in Bergevin blind or otherwise.

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09-25-2013, 12:57 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
The team can obviously regress as our big improvements came from young players (Subban, Eller, the Gallys). But I personally wouldn't bet against those 4 doing well again this year. In 09 it was a pretty safe bet that Kovalev wouldn't repeat, that Streit's 62 points would be hard to replace. Who you are expecting to have a down year that would cause us to struggle?
Not a regression but consistency this is an 82 game schedule after all. Maybe a regression from Gallagher not from his play but the way he play's I could very well see an injury to him this year.


Quote:
Which basically means you have faith in Bergevin blind or otherwise.
Faith implies no evidence. Like I said people in the hockey business says he put up an incredible front office. Blindness implies I do not see what he is trying to do. I see it and I give him the benefit of the doubt. Which is more than you do. And finally I do not say he will succeed, just that he might.

It seems you have more faith than I do, it's just faith in his failure.

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09-25-2013, 01:26 PM
  #119
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interview with michel therrien today

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09-25-2013, 02:34 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Both moronic moves, I can see now why you're at odds with the new GM, who understands where this team is relative to the league and is fixing it slowly.
I'm not at odds with our new GMs, I actually would have preferred that he kept a status quo, meaning, don't even sign Briere.
I don't mind adding muscle on defense with Murray, although I don't think he's good, but we needed some muscle. I have no issue with Parros. I would have liked if he added more muscle up front, not sign a decline smurf.
I have no issues with MB. Some moves I don't like, but I still trust his vision. So, you're wrong about that.

At the time, they were pretty good moves that increased our depth. We paid a little too much for them, but they still improved our team.
By the way, we didn't suck that year because we just weren't a good team. We sucked because of the way we were being managed and injuries.

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Don't you think that basing the team strength on a 48 game schedule might be faulty? Last year during the lockout I was explaining to the posters here that the team was not as bad as they showed but most of you were putting them in a lottery slot again.

This year I'm saying we should be cautious thinking they are a contender as they showed us they were far from it in the playoffs. Those who says we should dismantle some prospects to go for it are as deluded as those who said after the lockout they would be a lottery team.
I didn't say we're contenders. But we're not 3 years away from it either.

I never thought we were a lotto team. PG did a good job of tanking us. But I always felt we were a PO bubble team.
I don't think we're a contender, we're not a lotto, and we're not just a PO bubble team either.
We are a definite PO team, fighting for spots around 4-6 is where I see us.

But we have a lot of good pieces in place. If Gally-Galla-Eller keep up their development and are ready for even bigger roles, if Tinordi contributes as much as he's shown in pre-season.
Then really, there's no reason to not look at ourselves as a very solid team.

You want to be cautious this year, that's fine. But there's no reason to think we're not on our way up, and sooner rather than later.

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09-25-2013, 02:42 PM
  #121
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In hindsight, yes. At the time, they were both good moves and both players helped our team when they were here.
Those moves were never considered to be good, at least for those who understood where this team was in comparison to cup contention. Giving up a first round pick and second round pick for what was returned is atrocious management, and part of the reason the Gaineygoats era was stopped.

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09-25-2013, 03:13 PM
  #122
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Those moves were never considered to be good, at least for those who understood where this team was in comparison to cup contention. Giving up a first round pick and second round pick for what was returned is atrocious management, and part of the reason the Gaineygoats era was stopped.
Don't agree at all, and I imagine these all-knowers you're referring to are the same people who look at any trade in which you trade a draft pick and it doesn't end up with you winning the Cup as a waste of an asset.

The prices were reasonable, the returns were good, and the gambles were appropriate. Nothing more to say.

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09-25-2013, 03:23 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Agnostic View Post
Those moves were never considered to be good, at least for those who understood where this team was in comparison to cup contention. Giving up a first round pick and second round pick for what was returned is atrocious management, and part of the reason the Gaineygoats era was stopped.
Atrocious? Wow...A 2nd rd pick for Lang was atrocious?

I mean, it's an overpayment, but atrocious?

Gomez for McDo is atrocious.
Letting Kovalev, Koivu, Komisarek, etc, all leave for nothing is atrocious.

Trading a mid level 1st and a 2nd for Tanguay and Lang doesn't qualify as atrocious.
And it played a small part, if any, as to why Gainey/Gauthier era stopped.
Lang and Tanguay combined for 80pts in 100 gp. They were not atrocious acquisitions. They actually improved us.

We struggled that year because our club was ran like a zoo, discipline free with a clueless coach behind the bench, and suffered very key injuries.
Let's not pretend like we were this awful team. It was a pretty good gamble to take. It didn't cripple us in any way, it didn't prevent us from having a good future and rebuilding.

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09-25-2013, 03:34 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Zathronas View Post
Not a regression but consistency this is an 82 game schedule after all. Maybe a regression from Gallagher not from his play but the way he play's I could very well see an injury to him this year.




Faith implies no evidence. Like I said people in the hockey business says he put up an incredible front office. Blindness implies I do not see what he is trying to do. I see it and I give him the benefit of the doubt. Which is more than you do. And finally I do not say he will succeed, just that he might.

It seems you have more faith than I do, it's just faith in his failure.
Every team can become a victim of injuries. If you think our sucess was based on a lack of injuries how do you explain losing a top-6 forward, a top-9 forward, and 2 top-4 defencemen to significant injuries and also missing Pacioretty, Gallagher, Subban for short periods. In 08 you can argue our success had to do with being injury free, not last season.

Other people saying he's doing a good job isn't evidence. Especially since the business is very much an 'old boys club'. It would actually be incredibly surprising if people didn't say he was doing a good job.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I've never claimed that he'll be a failure. Questioning someone's decisions and debating them doesn't mean you think someone will be a failure. I certainly hope Bergevin has people advising him who question his decisions and bring other points of view. I had a lot of faith in him to start as I heard a lot of good things about him prior to his hiring. Since then however he's been chipping away at my faith with each bad decision he's made.

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09-25-2013, 04:18 PM
  #125
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Remember the Centennial? We had one good season with a young team, then we went full Retard to win and embarrassed ourselves.. Then we liquidated every asset for the run and after the failed run which hurt us. Impatience breeds mistakes.
Actual we didn't squander much for the centennial. It didn't work out, but you'll never get anywhere doing nothing and no one is suggesting trading our number one d prospect for a down grade at center like Gainey did. You can be aggressive and prudent at the same time. Our system is abundant, our talent/core is not the same as higgins and the gang, we have proven performers on this roster, a nice mix of youngsters and vets, we patch a few holes instead of waiting for nothing and you'll get better one step at a time.

The habs have never been closer, Norris winner, calder nominee, 3rd pick overall, the circumstances are entirely different, a franchise goalie according to most.

Signing Briere another midget as stop gaps is not what we need, he is holding the fort for no one. Immediate help is what we needed, enough with the stop-gaps already.

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