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Old
09-25-2013, 10:20 AM
  #601
Taze em
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Also Pirri is the perfect piece to flip at the deadline to fill holes. Last year other fanbases were regularly offering established 2c for Pirri straight up.

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09-25-2013, 10:26 AM
  #602
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Bottom line to me: the value you can get for Pirri is greater than the value he's going to bring to the team. Especially when you know TT is on his way over for the 2c spot.
Maybe, maybe not. Hawks fans love Hawks prospects, doesn't mean other GM's love him. They may see the same problems Q apparently sees with him. Pirri is 22, he can play in the AHL for 2 more years before he starts getting out of prospect age. Hell people are comparing him to Patrick Sharp who didn't get regular NHL games until age 24. And he was a center that moved to wing.

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09-25-2013, 10:38 AM
  #603
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Originally Posted by Cullksinikers View Post
Unfortunately, no one in their right mind will cough up a first-round pick for him. Better and younger talent can be taken that early.
Younger isn't an asset if you're dealing with a GM who's job is on the line. They likely won't have their job anymore whenever a 2014 1st round pick makes it to the NHL (2-4 years later most likely...so probably 2016 at the earliest).

Where if they trade for an NHL ready guy like Pirri, he could make them look good real fast. I think he has more trade value than you guys think.

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09-25-2013, 10:40 AM
  #604
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If Pirri plays for the Hawks all year and plays decently, like 40 points, he could definitely bring back a pick in the late 1st / early 2nd range.

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09-25-2013, 10:44 AM
  #605
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
If Pirri plays for the Hawks all year and plays decently, like 40 points, he could definitely bring back a pick in the late 1st / early 2nd range.
If he puts up 40 points as a 22 year old rookie, they aren't trading him. And if so, why would you want to trade that for a pick?

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09-25-2013, 10:50 AM
  #606
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
If he puts up 40 points as a 22 year old rookie, they aren't trading him. And if so, why would you want to trade that for a pick?
Well they seem to really love TT and may decide he is the #2 center the next season.

And if a team with pretty much no holes or room for NHL ready prospects trades someone, a pick is the best return. Keep the system stocked and guys coming in a few years when there will be holes to fill.

I wouldn't trade him for a 2nd though. His potential outweighs a 2nd round pick IMO.

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09-25-2013, 10:52 AM
  #607
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Well they seem to really love TT and may decide he is the #2 center the next season.

And if a team with pretty much no holes or room for NHL ready prospects trades someone, a pick is the best return. Keep the system stocked and guys coming in a few years when there will be holes to fill.

I wouldn't trade him for a 2nd though. His potential outweighs a 2nd round pick IMO.
Or you could just not trade him and keep him in your system. What if Hossa has a career ending concussion? What if Sharp tears his ACL? What if Kane decides he wants $12 mil a season and goes and plays in Buffalo in 2 years? What if Bickell fizzles out back into a 3rd line roll? There's no reason to trade young, cost controlled players. Hell you could put him on the 23 man roster and not sign Handzus after the season. There's a million reasons why you don't trade Pirri, especially for a giant question mark which is a NHL draft pick.

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09-25-2013, 10:58 AM
  #608
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If he puts up 40 points as a 22 year old rookie, they aren't trading him. And if so, why would you want to trade that for a pick?
I love Pirri and I would like to hold onto him but when TT does come, it's one or the other and organization is clearly going to go with TT. Maybe an injury happens and changes plans but as of now, I think he is a great fit for this year, not sure after that.

Although this would be pretty ****ing stout if they did it:

Sharp-Toews-Kane
TT-Pirri-Hossa
Bickell-Kruger/Shaw-Saad

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09-25-2013, 11:00 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Younger isn't an asset if you're dealing with a GM who's job is on the line. They likely won't have their job anymore whenever a 2014 1st round pick makes it to the NHL (2-4 years later most likely...so probably 2016 at the earliest).

Where if they trade for an NHL ready guy like Pirri, he could make them look good real fast. I think he has more trade value than you guys think.
But if he's back in Rockford again, he might not be perceived as "guaranteed" NHL ready...which will lower his trade value. imo, he will have more value if he's playing in Chicago than in Rockford.

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Old
09-25-2013, 11:01 AM
  #610
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I love Pirri and I would like to hold onto him but when TT does come, it's one or the other and organization is clearly going to go with TT. Maybe an injury happens and changes plans but as of now, I think he is a great fit for this year, not sure after that.

Although this would be pretty ****ing stout if they did it:

Sharp-Toews-Kane
TT-Pirri-Hossa
Bickell-Kruger/Shaw-Saad
Again, why? Why must it be one or the other? This year, Hawks probably have Smith, Morin, and Hayes on the roster. If Pirri is better than any of them, you keep him and let them walk. I still don't get why people think if a player isn't playing 82 games in the NHL at age 22, he has to be out the door. Ben Smith is 25, Hayes is 23, Pirri doesn't turn 23 until April of next year.

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09-25-2013, 11:03 AM
  #611
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I agree for the most part. It's just that after leading the AHL in scoring, he has nothing to prove there. He should be on the team this year, for the whole year.

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09-25-2013, 11:08 AM
  #612
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I agree for the most part. It's just that after leading the AHL in scoring, he has nothing to prove there. He should be on the team this year, for the whole year.
Darren Haydar led the AHL in points 1 year. By a wide margin, 23 points. It means absolutely nothing.

Until he figures out his defensive game down there, he won't be an NHL regular. Simple as that. Or they need to move him to wing if he doesn't have what it takes to play 200 feet in the NHL.

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Old
09-25-2013, 11:08 AM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
Or you could just not trade him and keep him in your system. What if Hossa has a career ending concussion? What if Sharp tears his ACL? What if Kane decides he wants $12 mil a season and goes and plays in Buffalo in 2 years? What if Bickell fizzles out back into a 3rd line roll? There's no reason to trade young, cost controlled players. Hell you could put him on the 23 man roster and not sign Handzus after the season. There's a million reasons why you don't trade Pirri, especially for a giant question mark which is a NHL draft pick.
Giant question mark draft picks are what make great organizations.

I'm not looking to dump off Pirri. I probably agree with your stance more than most. I said I would not trade him off unless the return was very good. At least a 1st round pick.

But if the price is right, you do consider it. The fit might not be here in Chicago. That doesn't have to be determined now or even this year. But if the right offer comes this year, then maybe you make that judgement at that time.

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Old
09-25-2013, 11:09 AM
  #614
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Originally Posted by IU Hawks fan View Post
Darren Haydar led the AHL in points 1 year. By a wide margin, 23 points. It means absolutely nothing.

Until he figures out his defensive game down there, he won't be an NHL regular. Simple as that. Or they need to move him to wing if he doesn't have what it takes to play 200 feet in the NHL.
I agree that it can be overblown - but there's a pretty big difference between leading the AHL in scoring at 27 and at 22.

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09-25-2013, 11:11 AM
  #615
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Yeah, I wouldn't give a rats ass about it if he was 27. At 22, that is a rare accomplishment and I bet if you looked up guys who did it at that age, they had productive NHL careers.

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09-25-2013, 11:12 AM
  #616
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I agree that it can be overblown - but there's a pretty big difference between leading the AHL in scoring at 27 and at 22.
He was 21 for most of last year (turned 22 in April)

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Old
09-25-2013, 11:15 AM
  #617
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I agree that it can be overblown - but there's a pretty big difference between leading the AHL in scoring at 27 and at 22.
In Haydar's 1st AHL season, at 23 so 1 year older but that's negligible, he had equal points to Pirri last year in 1 fewer game.

Basically what I'm getting at, is that MAYBE Pirri is just meant to be an AHL stud. We won't know until he plays for a consistent amount of games with the big club, which hopefully we'll be soon. Tired of speculating about what he could be or can't be, just wanna see it already.

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Old
09-25-2013, 12:17 PM
  #618
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Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
I think some of you are overreacting to the Pirri stuff. Jeremy Morin is the same age and only now finally appears that he might make the team.

Q has said in the past that he needs to see a more consistent effort from Pirri. Obviously with the injury he probably didn't get a chance to prove it this training camp. But it's a long season coming up. The odds of Handzus staying healthy throughout don't seem all that high. Chances will be there for some guys eventually.
Here is problem with your comparision

Hawks haven't had a massive hole on NHL roster on wing with Q ignoring Morin and putting guys from different positions into hole in hope it works out... We have seen that exact scenario happen with Pirri

That says enough about Q and his thoughts on Pirri

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
Well it is what it is. Pirri is young and hasn't been around long enough to be deemed someone that is getting screwed over. And if worse comes to worst, he can force the Hawks hand by playing even better in Rockford this year. Because then they'll either want to bring him up, or might have sweet trade offers for him.
What exactly is playing better in AHL? He just won the AHL scoring title

There isn't much else he can do offensively and he is never gonna develop an NHL defensive game under the Hogs coaching and playing AHL competition

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Old
09-25-2013, 12:34 PM
  #619
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I can't see how Q could share the enthusiasm about TT if he doesn't like Pirri. Sure, TT is more skilled but they are pretty similar players all around.

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09-25-2013, 12:37 PM
  #620
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
I can't see how Q could share the enthusiasm about TT if he doesn't like Pirri. Sure, TT is more skilled but they are pretty similar players all around.
"more skilled" can represent a pretty big difference in players. That aside, I don't think they are all that similar. My impression is TT is defensively fairly good...maybe not a standout, but good enough that Q actually remarked on his defense. On the other hand, Q has gone out of his way to say Pirri is not good defensively.

Mark Lazerus ‏@MarkLazerus 4m
Q says #Blackhawks "likely" will take 8 defensemen out of camp. Good news for Kostka or Stanton. Likely bad news for Pirri or Nordstrom.

Mark Lazerus ‏@MarkLazerus 3m
Though Nordstrom's looking more & more like a real candidate to stay. That could bump Morin. Still feel Hayes, Smith are locks. #Blackhawks

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Old
09-25-2013, 12:55 PM
  #621
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Yeah, a friend of mine plays Xbox with Stanton and 2 or 3 days ago he remarked that he thought he made the team.

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09-25-2013, 01:16 PM
  #622
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Well it is what it is. Pirri is young and hasn't been around long enough to be deemed someone that is getting screwed over. And if worse comes to worst, he can force the Hawks hand by playing even better in Rockford this year. Because then they'll either want to bring him up, or might have sweet trade offers for him.
Pirri has already paid his dues in the AHL. He was the leading scorer. What else does he need to do? I understand that here are concerns about his defensive game, but he will be playing between Sharp and Hossa. We dont need a Selke caliber C there. Pirri is definitely a upgrade on 36 year old Handzus or Brandon "never played C" Saad.

Love Q but his treatment of Pirri is absolutely baffling. On one hand you have Stan Bowman and John Mcdonough raving about Pirri and how he will get his chance at 2C(in the interviews after the cup win) and on the other hand we have coach Q who is intent on giving anybody but Pirri the 2C job. I really dont know what to make of it.

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:39 PM
  #623
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Lots of players pay their dues in the AHL and never make it. Why are people assuming Pirris ready for the NHL? Because he led the AHL in scoring as a younger player? That means squat.

I like Pirri, hope he makes it some day, but I'll take a twotime Cup champ coaches opinion on a player before a bunch of arm chair GMs who have only seen him play a handful of times in the NHL.

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09-25-2013, 01:42 PM
  #624
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That two time champ would throw Matt Walker and Brent Sopel on the ice for big minutes. He falls in love with crappy players and shuns others.

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Old
09-25-2013, 01:45 PM
  #625
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My guess is that they carry Kostka as one of the 23 so they can have an extra defenseman and an extra forward at the same time. This is the same team that has tried Brookbank and Hendry at forward, so they could use Kostka if they are in a serious pinch.

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