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O'Byrne/Bournival trade revisited

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Old
09-25-2013, 03:29 PM
  #651
montreal
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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
Excited for Bournival and Leblanc in our middle six in the next couple of years. These are the type of guys you hate to play against.

Decent offensively, gritty, intelligent, good character, excellent defensive awareness and ability, and homegrown to boot!
I'm assuming you are saying Leblanc is a center but he's always been on the wing in Hamilton. Also I don't think either are the type of guys you hate to play against.

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Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
Anybody else see some Plekanec type potential in Bournival ?
I don't

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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I don't think anyone could have predicted a year ago just how much his skating would improve, and that has made by far the biggest difference in his game. At the time of the trade (November of 2010) you would have known his draft position but next to nothing about what it is that's helping him succeed right now other than having been captain of Shawinigan for about a month or so at that point. Even by the end of that season there were questions about whether he had already started to plateau because of his junior numbers.
I never noticed any problems with his skating in the past, so it looks the same to me. He's more involved physically though, which has really stood out to me.

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Originally Posted by dackelljuneaubulis02 View Post
I do. I thought that last year but didn't think he had the offense. It's hard to project Bournival's potential right now but a Plek lite would be amazing but not so far fetched. Possibly more.

People need to remember that no one expected much from Plekanec when he was with the Dogs. Solid 3rd liner who could maybe add 15 goals.
Pleks was outstanding on the Dogs, by his 2nd season he was the best player on the team.

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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
The way people are going on it's like Bournival has somehow proven to be a capable NHLer. The jury is still out, a few pre-season games isn't going to change anything.
I remember when Jan Bulis led the league in scoring during one preseason, good times. I don't put any stock into pre-season so it will be interesting to see what kind of season Bournival has as I thought he didn't look very good last season so hopefully he bounces back this year.

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Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
I didn't really follow hockey closely enough when Plekanec played for the Bulldogs and first got called up to the NHL, so I was wondering if people, who can remember Plekanec as the player he was then, could comment on the similarities/differences. Did Plekanec already have that finesse and confidence with his puck handling ? I can see that they are both defensively aware and can create scoring chances with speed and good positioning thanks to good hockey sense. Also, from what I can interpret from the statistic, Plekanec seemed to join the Bulldogs when they were a very strong team and managed to produce very well as a 20 y.o. and then lead the team in scoring the next year on yet another strong bulldog squad. By contrast, Bournival seemed to play well on a weak Bulldog squad last year and will be given a prominent role on the team this year if he gets sent down. Basically, I'm wondering if he might not develop in a similar way to Plekanec and surprisingly become a viable top-6 option with excellent defensive abilities.
Pleks was a huge part of the success of Balej during his 2nd season in North America, he was setting him up left and right. I wouldn't say Bournival played well, he struggled for long streches to produce.

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09-25-2013, 05:37 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by JAVO16 View Post
I didn't really follow hockey closely enough when Plekanec played for the Bulldogs and first got called up to the NHL, so I was wondering if people, who can remember Plekanec as the player he was then, could comment on the similarities/differences. Did Plekanec already have that finesse and confidence with his puck handling ? I can see that they are both defensively aware and can create scoring chances with speed and good positioning thanks to good hockey sense. Also, from what I can interpret from the statistic, Plekanec seemed to join the Bulldogs when they were a very strong team and managed to produce very well as a 20 y.o. and then lead the team in scoring the next year on yet another strong bulldog squad. By contrast, Bournival seemed to play well on a weak Bulldog squad last year and will be given a prominent role on the team this year if he gets sent down. Basically, I'm wondering if he might not develop in a similar way to Plekanec and surprisingly become a viable top-6 option with excellent defensive abilities.
I first saw Plekanec at the Bell Centre in a preseason game against the Bruins in 2002. On the spot I predicted he would be a very good player. I wouldn't predict equal success for Bournival but I'd say he'll have a good career.

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09-25-2013, 06:01 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I'm assuming you are saying Leblanc is a center but he's always been on the wing in Hamilton. Also I don't think either are the type of guys you hate to play against.


He said middle six as in second and third line. Also, they are both players that are annoying to play against. Just like Plekanec is, for their combativeness.

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Old
09-25-2013, 08:27 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
He said middle six as in second and third line. Also, they are both players that are annoying to play against. Just like Plekanec is, for their combativeness.
This is exactly what I meant. Very combative players with a good two-way game. I'm not saying they're mouthy, just saying that their style of play makes them difficult to play against.

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Old
09-26-2013, 09:52 AM
  #655
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
He said middle six as in second and third line. Also, they are both players that are annoying to play against. Just like Plekanec is, for their combativeness.
I still don't get how middle six means 3rd line, it's the middle part that is throwing me off. but a moot point either way and I understand that there will be mix ups around here since some speak different languages.

Everyone's definition of players you hate to play against or players that are annoying to play against will vary. To me I hated playing against dirty players that threw cheap shots when I wasn't looking. But for me guys like Bournival and Leblanc wouldn't be players I would hate to play against as they are more soft then physical. They both work hard consistently for sure but that wouldn't bother me personally.

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Originally Posted by Draft View Post
This is exactly what I meant. Very combative players with a good two-way game. I'm not saying they're mouthy, just saying that their style of play makes them difficult to play against.
I wouldn't call them very combative, but again everyone's definition of combative will vary. They work hard and have good two way games, plus they will fight for the puck but I personally wouldn't say that makes them difficult to play against, a bit of a pain but to me more a minor one. At least to me when I think of Bournival and Leblanc I just don't think of them as players I would have hated to play against.

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10-21-2013, 09:51 PM
  #656
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Revisting the messages posted here is really interesting at the moment

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10-22-2013, 08:11 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by terreur View Post
I don't know a lot on bournival, but I don't like getting rid of O'byrne... we will miss him in a 2-3 years i'm sure he'll become a very good defensive D.
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Originally Posted by Jafar View Post
Bad move imo , always liked O'Byrne and believed he'll become a good 4th 5th defenseman in 2 or 3 years.Big defenseman with good skating abilities you don't trade for crap.Too bad.

I personally was fine with the deal....because I had seen Bournival play. But this is always fun to look back at.


Just like on the main board there is a look back at old trades and the Ryder+Halak+2nd (Subban) is in the lead for tops they'd take now

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Old
10-22-2013, 09:12 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Le Tricolore View Post
I always liked O'Byrne but he didn't seem to be progressing a whole lot. Hopefully he gets a chance to play with the Avs and can turn into a good player.

And hopefully Bournival turns into a better version of Sidney Crosby.
I still hope what I said can come true.

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Old
10-22-2013, 09:48 AM
  #659
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I do see bournival breaking out of his shell he was great junior player but never tought he had one or maybe 2 extra gear... nice to see... I am surely seing him as a potential top 6 player now..

Determination and confidence plays a crucial role in develloping and keep in mind he is only 21.. he will become a man sooner rather than later and that will give him another boost. Dont be fooled by his junior numbers hamilton is as crappy as you can get.. look at gallaghers numbers... plekanec was part of a different era a very positive one in terms of production.

Quite thrilled with him, give him a better role he will blossom. Imho

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10-22-2013, 10:05 AM
  #660
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O'Byrne had played over 300 games in the NHL by the age of 28. I don't think it's fair to suggest he's complete valueless...just a few months ago he fetched a 4th rounder. I wouldn't be surprised if he finds his way back to the NHL when the cap increases. However, Habs definitely look like they came away the winner with Bournival looking like a key cog in the bottom 6 long term. I wish Leblanc went back to the way he was playing in his rookie year because he and Bournival would make a solid line and piss off opposition on the forecheck.

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10-22-2013, 10:24 AM
  #661
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Bournival's game kinda reminds me of a young Chris Higgins.

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10-22-2013, 10:39 AM
  #662
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OB's not even in the NHL anymore so at worst, we came out even

my boy bourne won't disappoint me though

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Old
10-22-2013, 11:52 AM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Indeed, it was arguably his best move. As of today, it is still mediocre at best.

The 'ridiculously overpaid' Cammalleri still doing what is ultimately expected from him - put up points. He has 24 goals/ 51 points in 72 games with the Flames and likely will be traded this deadline for at least a 2nd round pick just based on his playoff history and expiring contract.

Bourque has 3 more years left on his deal and has 12 goals/21 points in 65 games + equally inconsistent not only in terms of scoring but physical play/engagement.

Ramo (penciled in as Flames starter) / 2nd (Fucale) is a wash right now. Tough to predict how this will pan out and frankly not the key parts of the deal. Plus points for Gauthier for getting a 2nd that ended up being in the 30s. Plus points for Gauthier for getting Ramo in the first place.

That's where I'd give credit. Cammy/Bourque swap? I think people are overrating Bourque's value to the team and underrating Cammy's abilities while overstating his 'cancer' traits.
I'd give credit to the whole move. Salary cap context needs to be used.

Cammy vs Bourque, sure Bourque is inconsistent and is signed longer, but at his cap hit, we can actually afford his inconsistency. With Cammy, we couldn't. On top of that, I do believe his cancer traits are overstated a bit, but I do think he was still bad enough to merit being dealt.

I don't know what you've got to do or say to get a GM pissed off enough to do a classless move like trading you in a game, but even though I dislike Gauthier and think that move is disgusting, Cammy must have had it coming. The locker room couldn't have been that high on Cammy for that to occur imo.

That having been said, I'll take a Fucale (Best goalie of his draft year) and Holland (low pick with possible NHL upside) over Ramo any day of the week. Yeah he dominated the KHL, thus far he's been outplayed by a 33 year old career backup.

In the end, I wouldn't call it a mediocre trade. If in 2-3 years Ramo is in the Vezina discussions then we'll start talking mediocre.

As it stands, we couldn't afford to have Cammy's cap hit and the guy replacing him isn't seeming to be problematic on our team. Would I have preferred somebody better, or a top end prospect? Of course. But I judge a trade on what I believe a GM could have gotten, and I don't believe Cammy would have yielded a top line player or a high end prospect or pick. At best, a low 1st rounder.

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10-22-2013, 02:31 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Revisting the messages posted here is really interesting at the moment
Why should this be revisited? By now we know that too much was expected of O'Byrne and too little of Bournival. The Habs made out well, period.

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