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KHL Expansion part II

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Old
09-26-2013, 09:53 AM
  #951
VladNYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robwangjing View Post

Approved by KHL:

Håkons Hall - Cap. 10 000, built in 1993. (No team today)


Also this text below got me very interested: Could there really be a Swedish team in discussion? It must happen as we speak, behind closed doors, as no media has reported on this.

They also continue to say that now it's up for "Norway" if they want a team there, and also that it will most likely be a new team rather than one from the Norwegian league.
Most likely Hakons Hall till a new Arena is built for Winter Olympic bid. My question is this. Littlehammer is 2 hours from Oslo give or take. You can take the Train from Oslo no prob. Will people do that on the weekends? Will a week day game draw enough spectators from Oppland?



Quote:
Originally Posted by Den View Post
KHL is running out of space: there are basically 1 place left in the league, it will be 29 teams after the Finns join next year.

IMHO, accepting Donbass was stupid. This is not a hockey city.
Any one that believes that the KHL will stop at 30 teams is naive. As far as Donbass goes I don't understand what you mean. They are building a 12k arena. They have sport crazy local fans. They have money and it's important to have hockey back in Ukraine. You would be stupid not to have them in the KHL. Eventually Sokil will be back too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter25 View Post
60% of the budget of the Norwegean KHL team will be covered by Gazprom. Why?
Very simple. Norway oil and gas and Russian oil and gas are both rivals and coworkers. I told you guys for years now that the KHL is coming to Norway for many reasons. There are many things happening here behind the scenes that have nothing to do with hockey. It is like two rival families marrying their kids to stop a feud. You guys need to understand that there is so much more to the KHL than just hockey. It's just a tip of the Iceberg. It is a major catalyst for cooperation between large global companies. The integration of the Russian market to European companies and opportunities of business cooperation between countries that normally are pretty cold to Russian businesses is both very important and a good thing for the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brec7 View Post
The KHL would never say it, but I think they probably know and are even planning on teams dying off in order to allow for all these new markets. If they want to go Europe wide going to Norway is probably a good strategy, there's enough hockey interest there that the KHL could draw and it's a huge step up from the current league- where as in Sweden and Finland it may be a step up from the local league, but not enough to overcome the tradition of the Swedish & Finnish leagues.
With all the structural improvements being paid for right now, i doubt any Russian teams are gonna die off. As for the Finnish and Swedish tradition, think of it like this. There were other things to drink world wide before Coca Cola came around. We heard this crap from our Czechoslovakian friends too. And despite what Jussi and co say, Scandinavians are not unique snowflakes that are too complex for stupid Russians to understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Den View Post
Which ones? Vityaz will be relocated to Sochi, I don't see others dying. May be Yugra.
Bingo. Not gonna happen. Bad for the KHL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
there are 5-7 russian clubs which can be and will be relegated to VHL.
See above. It's bad for the KHL Vorky. They want to show stability badly. The 30 team cap is ********. Trust me. These teams would have to **** up really really bad for KHL to let them fail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan94 View Post
amur and admiral can be sent in the Asia League Ice Hockey. geografically a much better option than KHL.
Better option for whom? There are plans for more teams in the East. That whole area of Russia is seeing a large boom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salavat Yulaev View Post
A Norwegean club made from scratch may join KHL next season. Gazprom will be a general sponsor and cover 60% of expenditures. Norwegean club owners already gave their permit.

So maybe next year Patric Toressen will be a cap of a new KHL team
There will be a Norwegian club in the KHL soon. What format exactly we will see. But I've been telling you guys for years now about KHL expansion to Norway.


Last edited by VladNYC: 09-26-2013 at 09:58 AM.
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Old
09-26-2013, 10:03 AM
  #952
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Debunked by KHL. They do not negotiate with anyone.

http://www.championat.com/hockey/new...-norvegii.html

Quote:
Верьте официальной информации!

Сегодня в средствах массовой информации со ссылкой на норвежские источники появились сведения о переговорах о присоединении к КХЛ клуба из Норвегии. В связи с этим лига выступает с официальным заявлением. В настоящее время в Норвегии нет сотрудников КХЛ или лиц, уполномоченных от имени лиги вести официальные переговоры о вступлении в чемпионат КХЛ новых клубов. Обращаем внимание коллег на то, что информация о вступлении в КХЛ новых клубов должна исходить от официальных ресурсов и изданий лиги. В остальных случаях ее не следует считать официальной и достоверной.

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09-26-2013, 10:08 AM
  #953
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
Debunked by KHL. They do not negotiate with anyone.

http://www.championat.com/hockey/new...-norvegii.html
It's not really debunked

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09-26-2013, 10:18 AM
  #954
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
Debunked by KHL. They do not negotiate with anyone.

http://www.championat.com/hockey/new...-norvegii.html
Yeah okay lol

Translation. "We will tell you when we are good and ready. Don't wake Jesus and jinx us. In the mean time SHUT YER PIE HOLES!"

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09-26-2013, 10:28 AM
  #955
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They said they don't have anyone representing KHL there right now, or anyone authorized to negotiate on behalf of KHL. It's not like we didn't have a "KHL expansion" scam gangs touring Europe before (Torpedo Leipzig anyone?).

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09-26-2013, 10:33 AM
  #956
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
They said they don't have anyone representing KHL there right now, or anyone authorized to negotiate on behalf of KHL. It's not like we didn't have a "KHL expansion" scam gangs touring Europe before (Torpedo Leipzig anyone?).
Yeah except all the Gazprom guys there, who of course have nothing to do with the KHL. And of course you have to be physically present in Norway to discuss any kind of deal.

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09-26-2013, 10:53 AM
  #957
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Does Antanas Sakavickas work for the KHL? If yes then he is one of the guys there discussing the project "KHL Norway", and should be the project leader.

If no, what is he doing there?





Looks like him at least.

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09-26-2013, 10:58 AM
  #958
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No he does not. It is the same guy who tried to push through Olivia from Gdansk last year. Looks like that didn't work out and he has moved on.

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09-26-2013, 10:58 AM
  #959
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Is not he with Olivia Gdansk? I don't think he works for the KHL

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09-26-2013, 11:07 AM
  #960
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robwangjing View Post
Does Antanas Sakavickas work for the KHL? If yes then he is one of the guys there discussing the project "KHL Norway", and should be the project leader.

If no, what is he doing there?





Looks like him at least.
That's definitely Antanas 100%. What a guy who has been trying to get a team into the KHL is doing in Norway is a mystery.


Last edited by VladNYC: 09-26-2013 at 11:13 AM.
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09-26-2013, 11:09 AM
  #961
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There were certain reports in the media today, linked to a Norwegian source, which claimed that discussions were underway concerning a Norwegian club joining the KHL. The League has issued an official statement in response to these reports. There are currently no employees of the KHL in Norway, nor are there any persons in Norway authorized to conduct negotiations on behalf of the League concerning the entry of new clubs into the KHL Championship. We would like to point out to all media that only the League’s official resources and publications release information regarding new clubs joining the KHL Championship. In the absence of any such announcement, we advise that reports emanating from other sources should be considered unofficial and less than reliable.
https://www.facebook.com/KHL.en

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Old
09-26-2013, 11:14 AM
  #962
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Originally Posted by Den View Post
Is not he with Olivia Gdansk? I don't think he works for the KHL
He is all over the place. Lives in Lithuania, Latvian Cellphone number, Russian email address, represents Basketball players in Poland.

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09-26-2013, 11:16 AM
  #963
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Originally Posted by ult View Post
See post #954 in this thread.

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09-26-2013, 11:26 AM
  #964
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
See post #954 in this thread.
I've seen it. I've posted it again for those who don't speak Russian. And obviously no one is going to dismiss the whole country right away. But just because they didn't say "hell no, never ever" doesn't mean it's likely to happen. May be, but not with this guy. He is a scam. And do I need to remind you how many of this "projects" we've seen? Olivia, Vetra, Torpedo, Helvetics, Budivelnik... What's up with them?

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09-26-2013, 11:28 AM
  #965
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Dude just trying to squeeze himself between club representatives an Russian oil/gas money. A shameless opportunist most likely.

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09-26-2013, 11:30 AM
  #966
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Dude just trying to squeeze himself between club representatives an Russian oil/gas money. A shameless opportunist most likely.
Yeah he is a middle man trying to make small percentages on big deal. But where there is Vultures there is a carcass.

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09-26-2013, 02:35 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
With all the structural improvements being paid for right now, i doubt any Russian teams are gonna die off. As for the Finnish and Swedish tradition, think of it like this. There were other things to drink world wide before Coca Cola came around. We heard this crap from our Czechoslovakian friends too. And despite what Jussi and co say, Scandinavians are not unique snowflakes that are too complex for stupid Russians to understand.
I'm the furthest thing from an expert on the markets the KHL is in, but I do know the league has great ambitions that include expanding into MANY countries they are not currently in, which would mean the league would be quite large by the time they were "done" with this expansion if they keep the teams they have now. Ultimately the league has a goal to be on par or greater than the NHL... having more teams than the NHL actually hurts that because the talent level would be spread too thin. Vorky even suggested above demoting teams to the VHL, wouldn't that be possible? I don't see how such a big league would be practical, unless they wanted to go make one big (64 team?) two sectioned league with promotion/relegation. Also, as the league grows expense would raise as well so possibly teams that are fine now could potentially struggle to keep up in a newer, bigger KHL team? Isn't there 5 teams in Moscow now, can those really all survive?

Another thing I find strange about the KHL is it seems to be trying to grow Russian hockey and be a pan-European force at the same time which is a bit contradictory. If you look at the NHL, it's primarily American teams, but that's only because the USA is a much bigger country than Canada with more big cities. Russia is the biggest hockey country in Europe for sure but if we go by population then a truly representative European hockey league shouldn't be Russian dominated. (Should be many more teams outside of Russia than in it... again this is problem if you're trying to keep a reasonable number of teams in the league, unless it becomes two-tiered.)

Regarding Sweden/Finland: The clubs in their domestic league are obviously steeped in tradition and have passionate followings. I said this in another thread, I believe that unlike Russia/old Soviet countries, there's never been a belief in those countries that they have the best club hockey in the world. As soon as it was discovered that Swedes & Finns were among the best hockey players in the world, they were over in the NHL & WHA playing with the "big boys". Russia has a tradition of strong clubs that could compete with anyone in the world as was seen in the 70's when the Red Army was walloping NHL teams- there understandably seems to be pride in restoring what was lost. Sweden/Finland never realistically had the option of playing in club leagues where their teams could be the best in the world... the KHL could theoretically offer that option, so it will be interesting to see what mentality wins out, being the best, or staying true to clubs that have decades/centuries of tradition.

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09-26-2013, 05:50 PM
  #968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Den View Post
Which ones? Vityaz will be relocated to Sochi, I don't see others dying. May be Yugra.
Some might merge, I'd prefer to see atlant go away ya know.
Also, as I said earlier, I do not see Medvescak being a long term thing. Same for Yurga, being from such a small tiny town.

I agree with brec7. Of course, it's just speculation... but I think it's realistic speculation.


Quote:
Can we count on the Swedish team in the KHL season 2014/15 ?

- I would not count on it , no. I'm surprised that Finland released Jokerit . But Finland has a different structure . Our best players are playing in the NHL , while Finland has very many players in KHL
Lulz, a big vacuum sucking sound will suck out Swedish players that have some quality, it's only a matter of time.


Quote:
Any one that believes that the KHL will stop at 30 teams is naive. As far as Donbass goes I don't understand what you mean. They are building a 12k arena. They have sport crazy local fans. They have money and it's important to have hockey back in Ukraine. You would be stupid not to have them in the KHL. Eventually Sokil will be back too.
No. The reason why Ukraine is in there is so that the KHL would say "we are in X many countries", where X a greater number than before. Ukraine's hockey condition is very difficult I think... it's not something to be proud of. Yet, it increases the number of KHL countries by +1, which is useful for marketing purposes.

Quote:
The integration of the Russian market to European companies and opportunities of business cooperation between countries that normally are pretty cold to Russian businesses is both very important and a good thing for the world.
I disagree. Western business practices are often downright awful. Horrid to be precise. Lets not mix that with hockey and other things.
Case in point... http://www.greenpeace.org/internatio...th/blog/46345/ ...yes it's a prank, but it brings awareness to the problems which are very much real and actual.


Last edited by loppa: 09-26-2013 at 05:57 PM.
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09-26-2013, 05:55 PM
  #969
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Lulz, a big vacuum sucking sound will suck out Swedish players that have some quality, it's only a matter of time.
Our football league has survived that for decades upon decades and it's a lot more popular than our hockey league.

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09-26-2013, 06:06 PM
  #970
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Our football league has survived that for decades upon decades and it's a lot more popular than our hockey league.
Football and hockey are very different. Soccer talent can be sucked from many places, hockey is much more limited. Finland got sucked in first, as they were closer to the vacuum. Soon enough they will be part of that. And you know what that means? Yes, the sucking will be even stronger, and suck more players than before.

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09-26-2013, 07:01 PM
  #971
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post
Football and hockey are very different. Soccer talent can be sucked from many places, hockey is much more limited. Finland got sucked in first, as they were closer to the vacuum. Soon enough they will be part of that. And you know what that means? Yes, the sucking will be even stronger, and suck more players than before.
For the last time, it had nothing to do with any "vacuum". It was all because Harkimo's business were heading for a downturn with Hartwall Areena making less and less money (in addition to his other businesses stalling) and Kummola benefiting financially himself from the sale of Hartwall Areena.

No big name Swedes will even have to consider Jokerit as they intend to fill the roster primarily with Finns and the pay rise wouldn't be that big for the Swedes. Swedes are already more interested in playing either at home or NHL.

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09-26-2013, 08:14 PM
  #972
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So in the Norway case it's more or less back to square one, or might I say Stavanger Oilers. Sad but not too surprising.

When they commented on this matter they said "Our goal has always been to work ourselves there and join KHL at a later stage, when we are ready."

**** you Antanas Sakavickas.

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09-26-2013, 09:29 PM
  #973
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Originally Posted by brec7 View Post
I'm the furthest thing from an expert on the markets the KHL is in, but I do know the league has great ambitions that include expanding into MANY countries they are not currently in, which would mean the league would be quite large by the time they were "done" with this expansion if they keep the teams they have now. Ultimately the league has a goal to be on par or greater than the NHL... having more teams than the NHL actually hurts that because the talent level would be spread too thin. Vorky even suggested above demoting teams to the VHL, wouldn't that be possible? I don't see how such a big league would be practical, unless they wanted to go make one big (64 team?) two sectioned league with promotion/relegation. Also, as the league grows expense would raise as well so possibly teams that are fine now could potentially struggle to keep up in a newer, bigger KHL team? Isn't there 5 teams in Moscow now, can those really all survive?

Another thing I find strange about the KHL is it seems to be trying to grow Russian hockey and be a pan-European force at the same time which is a bit contradictory. If you look at the NHL, it's primarily American teams, but that's only because the USA is a much bigger country than Canada with more big cities. Russia is the biggest hockey country in Europe for sure but if we go by population then a truly representative European hockey league shouldn't be Russian dominated. (Should be many more teams outside of Russia than in it... again this is problem if you're trying to keep a reasonable number of teams in the league, unless it becomes two-tiered.)

Regarding Sweden/Finland: The clubs in their domestic league are obviously steeped in tradition and have passionate followings. I said this in another thread, I believe that unlike Russia/old Soviet countries, there's never been a belief in those countries that they have the best club hockey in the world. As soon as it was discovered that Swedes & Finns were among the best hockey players in the world, they were over in the NHL & WHA playing with the "big boys". Russia has a tradition of strong clubs that could compete with anyone in the world as was seen in the 70's when the Red Army was walloping NHL teams- there understandably seems to be pride in restoring what was lost. Sweden/Finland never realistically had the option of playing in club leagues where their teams could be the best in the world... the KHL could theoretically offer that option, so it will be interesting to see what mentality wins out, being the best, or staying true to clubs that have decades/centuries of tradition.

The goal of the KHL is not to win a dick measuring contest with the NHL. The KHL has been around now 6 years and people still don't understand what they are trying to do? The KHL is trying to build a strong and integrated Pan European Hockey system. They are trying to merge European hockey markets, develop hockey in untapped locations and most importantly bolster the development and quality of European juniors. The KHL understands that in order to not be a victim of the NHL hockey monopoly it must take it's future in it's own hands.

I still can't believe the shortsightedness of people talking about the watering down of talent of the league. Did the NHL suffer long term when they moved from the original 6? Expanding top level hockey to new hockey markets will grow the sport, which in turn will grow player development. Tapping into established hockey markets will also do this. Don't forget that these KHL teams now come with MHL junior teams too. Player development is like a Pyramid scheme. The wider the base the better. The only thing that prevents a Sidney Crosby from Andorra or a Ovechkin from Moldova is opportunity and infrastructure. The KHL is bringing that infrastructure.

The Moscow team thing has been addressed. Vityaz is going to Sochi.

Please explain how developing a strong and unified European hockey system and integrating Russian teams into it is contradictory?

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09-26-2013, 09:37 PM
  #974
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Originally Posted by loppa View Post


No. The reason why Ukraine is in there is so that the KHL would say "we are in X many countries", where X a greater number than before. Ukraine's hockey condition is very difficult I think... it's not something to be proud of. Yet, it increases the number of KHL countries by +1, which is useful for marketing purposes.



I disagree. Western business practices are often downright awful. Horrid to be precise. Lets not mix that with hockey and other things.
Case in point... http://www.greenpeace.org/internatio...th/blog/46345/ ...yes it's a prank, but it brings awareness to the problems which are very much real and actual.
You have no idea what you are talking about. As it has been explained to you. Donbass has money, they have rabid sport fans, they are building huge infrastructural improvements and they are bringing hockey back from the dead in Ukraine. I played hockey in the Ukraine as a kid. There was a great amount of players that came out of there during Soviet times. Donbass has more to offer the KHL then most of their new projects combined.

I don't know what you are blabbing about as far as western business practices go. Do you mean American ones or European ones? Because they are quite different. I also don't know what it has to do with what I said. I was talking about the cooperation of Russian business giants with their western counterparts. And if you think that western business practices are the worst it is because you have never worked in a Russian company.

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09-26-2013, 10:46 PM
  #975
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Originally Posted by VladNYC View Post
The goal of the KHL is not to win a dick measuring contest with the NHL. The KHL has been around now 6 years and people still don't understand what they are trying to do? The KHL is trying to build a strong and integrated Pan European Hockey system. They are trying to merge European hockey markets, develop hockey in untapped locations and most importantly bolster the development and quality of European juniors. The KHL understands that in order to not be a victim of the NHL hockey monopoly it must take it's future in it's own hands.
Bulls***. They don't give a flying Crosby about non-Russian juniors or hockey markets. They just want their money and to spread their political power. If they actually cared about the well being of European hockey and development of juniors, they wouldn't expand so rapidly, cause dilution of national leagues (thus making developmental environments inferior) and would sign transfer agreements with other European leagues to cover for KHL clauses (which can't be prevented by any legal means). "NHL hockey monopoly" is pure Russian/KHL propaganda to try and make themselves feel superior in the eyes of other countries that refuse to buy it nor have any issues working with the NHL. Just because Russians seem to have this obscure notion that hockey players have to stay in their home countries and leagues, no matter how talented they are and where they want to play themselves, doesn't at all mean that any other country feels so.

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