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Pre #6|Thursday, Sep. 26, 2013|Flyers at Devils|7:00 p.m. ET

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09-26-2013, 10:27 PM
  #326
Beef Invictus
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I'm not ready to completely lose it on Lavi for 2 preseason games. Let's not forget our prospect pool is terrible, so the best case scenario for many of the players suiting up every night is 3rd Line/Pairing ceilings...best case.

If he still doesn't have an answer for NJ in the regular season I'll rage, but the preseason isn't something I'm going to get too worked up over.

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09-26-2013, 10:47 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
But running drills is very different from a real game, and that's something that the team hasn't been doing as a whole. They had one game of real action with the real team all together and it wasn't like it was a huge blowout. They lost 2-1 and although they started off horribly they picked it up towards the end. It's gonna take time for the new people to get used to playing with new linemates and I don't think any of the lines that will be used next week have been used in more than one preseason game.

As for Lavi, sure he's probably being watched, but that's to be expected in Philly when you miss the playoffs. What I don't get is all the Lavi hate after two games vs NJ that were nowhere near as big of a deal as people are making it seem. It'll be interesting to see the teams first regular season game against NJ after everyone gets back into proper form.
Drills, however, are supposed to make positioning and puck movement reads second nature. Again, it's not that the Flyers dropped 2 preseason games to NJ or are 1-4-1; it's that the same obvious flaws are (apparently) there. The 2012 loss to NJ was painful because it was the same script for the 4 straight losses: wilt under forechecking, poor team defensive positioning and assignments, awful transition game, and lacklustre offensive zone play. And now it looks like nothing has changed.

Sure, we'll see how the "real" team is soon enough. However, I doubt the Devils line-up was 100% NHLers.

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09-26-2013, 11:35 PM
  #328
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It's still only preseason so I don't give too much of a **** although it sucks to be excited for hockey then suck the whole preseason. However, you're fooling yourself if people are upset just over two preseason games. This stuff stretches far beyond this preseason.

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09-27-2013, 12:00 AM
  #329
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However, I doubt the Devils line-up was 100% NHLers.
It pretty much was. Although, Jagr,Elias, and Fayne didn't play.

However, your point still stands, though I think the players deserve more blame than Lavi. The system works, it's just that you need the players to execute, and for some reason the Flyers can't seem to do that. The defensemen and forwards cough up the puck far too often in the defensive zone because they can't make clean passes, which leads to them getting hemmed in their zone. Also, their forecheck is terrible at times; they can dump the puck in the zone, but it doesn't do much good when no one can win a puck battle.

Hopefully everyone gets their act together when the season starts and we'll look back and laugh that we were getting angry over preseason games.

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09-27-2013, 12:01 AM
  #330
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Preseason or not, they are still playing to win... and so far against NJ, there has been no change from last year. The real season games will go the exact same way.

I really think we are going to see a coaching change this season, lavi's system doesn't fit our team anymore.

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09-27-2013, 12:24 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
No one really commenting on how bad McGinn has looked this preseason. He needs ALOT of work. Seems to be getting the benefit of the doubt based off his play from last season because he sure isnt playing like he deserves to be playing as a callup.
from all accounts(I havent seen one game) is that he is playing scared. he isnt intiating the physical end of things. If he isnt doing that then he isnt really effective.
Hopefully he can get it figured out in ADK. Because it appears mentally he is really messed up(hockeywise of course)

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09-27-2013, 01:32 AM
  #332
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It's still the pre-season, we have no insight in how hard the drills are in practice and how gassed players are. And there is a flu bug going around.

Nevertheless, this was meant to be Flyers B squad against Devils A squad with plenty of room for callups and bubble players to stand out and make a case for themselves. Most of them did not respond tonight and that's allarming.

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09-27-2013, 01:42 AM
  #333
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Pathetic effort. Almost every puck battle resulted in NJ winning the puck. VandeVelde does not look like an NHL player, but neither did Rosehill. Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds had no chemistry. I though Read-Laughton-Raffl had some. Read looks good.

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09-27-2013, 01:55 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
There's a game tomorrow and I suspect more of the "starters" will be in the line-up
Let's hope the lines will be in place for it. With Vinny new to the team and Schenn supposedly on his wing, I would have liked Lavy to have them play more together in the games so far. If Streit-Schenn are going to be a pair, I would like to see them together as well. It is fine to have battles for positions in camp, but I hope it doesn't take 10 real games to find chemistry among the starters.

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09-27-2013, 04:00 AM
  #335
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However, your point still stands, though I think the players deserve more blame than Lavi. The system works, it's just that you need the players to execute, and for some reason the Flyers can't seem to do that.
When the system doesn't work with the personnel they have, good coaches adjust the system accordingly to work. Laviolette has not done that. He continues to utilize a system that just doesn't work with the personnel he has.

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09-27-2013, 05:06 AM
  #336
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However, I doubt the Devils line-up was 100% NHLers.
Even if it was made up of the 100% NHLers, the Devils have perhaps the worst roster in the NHL. They might end having a winning record against only the Hurricanes and Flyers this year in the Met.

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09-27-2013, 05:17 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
When the system doesn't work with the personnel they have, good coaches adjust the system accordingly to work. Laviolette has not done that. He continues to utilize a system that just doesn't work with the personnel he has.
In the NFL that's true. I don't think that holds true for too many NHL coaches, though. Babcock, Julien, Quenville, they're considered some of the best in the game, but their rosters also have/had Norris winners. Hithcock and Tortorella are players' poison survived by employing a stifling trap. Then you have guys like Ruff, and Boudreau that have no real scheme, but manage by means of motivation. Once the players tune them out, they're done. Coaching in the NHL as a whole is largely irrelevant, provided you don't have somebody totally incompetent... like Stevens.

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09-27-2013, 07:05 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
When the system doesn't work with the personnel they have, good coaches adjust the system accordingly to work. Laviolette has not done that. He continues to utilize a system that just doesn't work with the personnel he has.
This. I don't know how fans can think otherwise and continue to blame it on the players. Last year people argued that Lavi didn't have the personnel to execute his system. I personally think that's a load cause any coach worth a **** can make adjustments to what he's got. Lavi can't seem to make adjustments of any sort. We've seen this for the duration of his stay in Philadelphia, not just this preseason which is why people are upset already.

Also this whole not competing for a full 60 minutes was blamed on the leadership group (Richards and Carter). Well they've been gone for a while now and we still have to watch the same **** every game. Play like garbage for the majority of the game, play hard the final 5 minutes of the game and hope for a win. I guess Giroux, Hartnell and Kimmo should go next. Seriously though the common denominator is Lavi, if the team gets off to a bad start something needs to change. I'm just particularly upset cause if a coaching change is necessary it'll have to be in season meaning they'll end up going with Murray.

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09-27-2013, 07:21 AM
  #339
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I definitely think that Lavi needs to adjust the system or the way he approaches certain teams...we know he can do that(The Tampa Bay embarassment), he just doesn't.

Now isn't a good time to do that though, in training camp i'd assume you want to get playes back in skating shape and to learn the system you plan to use all year and buy into it. what good is it gonna do the players if lavi changes the system in preseason, when they are all trying to learn it just so they can beat the Devils with there ahl roster.

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09-27-2013, 07:25 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Pathetic effort. Almost every puck battle resulted in NJ winning the puck. VandeVelde does not look like an NHL player, but neither did Rosehill. Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds had no chemistry. I though Read-Laughton-Raffl had some. Read looks good.
I'm pretty sure this line has never played together this year.

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09-27-2013, 07:31 AM
  #341
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Only updates I saw were via Twitter, but Laughton is going to go back to juniors, and that's ok. I'm sure the Flyers are disappointed to have to do that, because they expect their top draft picks to force their way onto the team.

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09-27-2013, 07:33 AM
  #342
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He's 19, he'll be fine. Sounds like Raffl was meh, but I think they are running out of options for that 3W, so he might win by default.

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09-27-2013, 07:36 AM
  #343
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
When the system doesn't work with the personnel they have, good coaches adjust the system accordingly to work. Laviolette has not done that. He continues to utilize a system that just doesn't work with the personnel he has.
Not really. That's why there's such an overturn of coaches in the league. Bruce Boudreau tried to do that, got fired, the Caps brought in a coach to do what Boudreau was trying to do, left, and brought in a coach whose system would be of benefit to the players. Players are supposed to adapt to the coach, if that's not happening it's on the GM to do something about it. Hence, why it was smarter to change the coach in the off-season, because it's going to happen anyways.

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09-27-2013, 07:36 AM
  #344
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This game really concerned me in two ways.

1. Henrique really made couturier look bad in all zones especially our offensive zone. Couturier could not posses the puck for any length of time with henrique pressuring him.

2. The effort exhibited by Laughton, Brayden, and Couturier were downright pathetic. THis game gave them a chance to play top line top 6 minutes something they wont see much during the regular season and they were invisible.

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09-27-2013, 07:37 AM
  #345
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Are there goal highlights online anywhere?

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09-27-2013, 07:45 AM
  #346
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I am a fan of Laviolette, I like him, but I'm starting to wonder if he makes it through November.

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09-27-2013, 07:49 AM
  #347
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Not really. That's why there's such an overturn of coaches in the league. Bruce Boudreau tried to do that, got fired, the Caps brought in a coach to do what Boudreau was trying to do, left, and brought in a coach whose system would be of benefit to the players. Players are supposed to adapt to the coach, if that's not happening it's on the GM to do something about it. Hence, why it was smarter to change the coach in the off-season, because it's going to happen anyways.
I disagree, coaches have to evaluate their talent and come up with the best style of play for the team they have. However the discrepancy between talent and style of play is very important factor in why some players succeed and why some dont.

Why new jersey is a successful organization is because they have an architect that has determined the style of play the organization will play, from their they select the players that best fit that style not necessarily the most talented, and they select coaches that coaches that style. This has given the devils an organizational identity and their is no deviation from that identity anywhere in the organization.

Most teams select the best players available and hope all the pieces fit together. While this draft strategy allows you to get the best value for your pick it may not give you a winning team. A great example of this was Columbus with Jeff Carter and Rick nash. No doubt Jeff Carter was the best Center Rick Nash has ever played with in Columbus in terms of talent, but those players are horrible compliments to one another and I think your average HfBoard poster would have the sense to point that out.

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09-27-2013, 07:59 AM
  #348
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I disagree, coaches have to evaluate their talent and come up with the best style of play for the team they have. However the discrepancy between talent and style of play is very important factor in why some players succeed and why some dont.

Why new jersey is a successful organization is because they have an architect that has determined the style of play the organization will play, from their they select the players that best fit that style not necessarily the most talented, and they select coaches that coaches that style. This has given the devils an organizational identity and their is no deviation from that identity anywhere in the organization.

Most teams select the best players available and hope all the pieces fit together. While this draft strategy allows you to get the best value for your pick it may not give you a winning team. A great example of this was Columbus with Jeff Carter and Rick nash. No doubt Jeff Carter was the best Center Rick Nash has ever played with in Columbus in terms of talent, but those players are horrible compliments to one another and I think your average HfBoard poster would have the sense to point that out.
Coaches, unlike GM's, are very stringent in their approach to the game. The system they run is something most of them have been working on for years, if not decades, and they're one hundred percent in on the belief that their system can win a Stanley Cup. A good coach can make small tweaks to that system, but it's unrealistic to expect a coach to change his whole ideology to better suit his team. Like GKJ said, that's what got Boudreau fired.

Btw, this isn't me advocating for firing or keeping Lavy, just a thought. I would love to see a guy like Julien in Philadelphia. He relies on a very structured approach that focuses on positional discipline in all three zones.

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09-27-2013, 08:08 AM
  #349
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I am a fan of Laviolette, I like him, but I'm starting to wonder if he makes it through November.
There's a week long break after they play Pittsburgh on October 17th.

If they're 2-5-1 at that point he might finally be shown the door.

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09-27-2013, 08:14 AM
  #350
Jtown
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Coaches, unlike GM's, are very stringent in their approach to the game. The system they run is something most of them have been working on for years, if not decades, and they're one hundred percent in on the belief that their system can win a Stanley Cup. A good coach can make small tweaks to that system, but it's unrealistic to expect a coach to change his whole ideology to better suit his team. Like GKJ said, that's what got Boudreau fired.

Btw, this isn't me advocating for firing or keeping Lavy, just a thought. I would love to see a guy like Julien in Philadelphia. He relies on a very structured approach that focuses on positional discipline in all three zones.
Boudreau got fired because of playoff failures. He finished 1st in the conference while changing up his system which i thought was an incredible coaching job. But i will say this, i do agree that coaches are true to their track record. And it is much easier to change coaches than to get new players to fit that system.

But really i don't think teams can have long term success unless they have chosen an organizational identity and stick to it for the long term.

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