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Old
09-27-2013, 09:49 AM
  #51
Levitate
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
I think I may have finally outgrown this message board. Scary thought, but man is it hard to read 90% of this nonsense.
Yup, it's not so much discussing hockey anymore

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Old
09-27-2013, 09:52 AM
  #52
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I thought it was richards that made Nash look so bad

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09-27-2013, 10:29 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
On a stationary target dummy wearing no armor and lacking attacks.
But did you pop your trinkets? .

Nash needs to step it up. The one thing this preseason has shown me is that Stepan is our best forward. Besides that, can't get too worked up.

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09-27-2013, 10:32 AM
  #54
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OK let me illustrate why I prefer Strålman over Girardi.

In a game where AV just rolled the lines and pairings giving the defence equal 5v5TOI (G: 14:03, S: 14:43) the difference in territorial play was humangous big. I'm assuming that they faced similarly difficult matchups, but considering the Canucks had last change it is actually more likely that Strålman got the more difficult matchups as Tortorella may have wanted his better players out against the "3rd pairing".

5v5 play:

In Strålman's 14:43 the Rangers outshot the Canucks 16-3, the Fenwick was 22-4, the Corsi was 27-7. No goals were scored.

In Girardi's 14:03 the Rangers outshot the Canucks 10-9, the Fenwick score was 13-14, and the Corsi was 15-16. The Canucks scored 3 goals to the Rangers 0.

While this is just a 1 game sample where the difference was quite extreme, the difference between them in Corsi per 20 minutes was 5.6 over the past season. Girardi did get tougher minutes, but not tough enough to explain a difference of that magnitude.

Strålman did cause two odd man rushes against in the 3rd, but those comes with the territory when you play the game the way he does and the benefits in offensive pressure greatly outweighs the drawbacks in a few scoring chances the other way. Both came off of failed keep-in attempts at the offensive blue-line.

I only checked the two of them because I have to hand-count that **** in the pre-season, but I'm guessing the Staal-Del Zotto pairing were somewhere in between. There is for example still a +9 shot differential remaining for the Rangers where neither Girardi nor Strålman was on the ice.

In 43 minutes of 5v5 play the Canucks had 12 SOG and 3 goals. 9 of those shots and all 3 of the goals came in the 14 minutes Girardi played 5v5.

So, to the poster who wondered whether I thought Strålman was great last night. Yes I thought he was, and I thought so before I counted up his differentials since it was pretty obvious from his on-ice play. It is not his fault that the forwards couldn't put the chances home. If he could play like this night-in night out (he won't, this game was an extreme example) he'd have an Erik Karlsson-type season.

He is calm with the puck and has the best break-out pass on the team. Del Zotto probably has the best "wow" passes, but he screws up too often for me to rank him #1. Girardi still goes for the Torts style "shoot it at the forward in the NZ so it bounces off of him into the OZ" break-out play most of the time, no wonder our possession play lacks with him on the ice.

Honestly, once I stopped believing that McD-G was a great pairing because everyone said so and started to actually watch them specifically in the games it became quite clear that they just aren't. Granted, they were not nearly as bad last year as they have been in the pre-season but I still think we need to put Girardi back with Staal or maybe with Moore.

Girardi is a fantastic PK:er and is the ideal defenceman for a 2010-11 Rangers-type team. A team that blocks shots, grinds it out, and scrapes into the playoffs only to go out in the first round. But they way the current Rangers are built, a talented team that wants to outplay the opposition on a nightly basis and actually contend for the cup, Girardi shouldn't get first pairing minutes 5v5.
You could have just said cause he's Swedish and saved yourself alot of time. They are two players in different leagues. One matches up against the best players in the leaguie and makes the all-star team and the other is something of a journeyman who although improving has yet to prove that much. Stop the madness.

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Old
09-27-2013, 10:37 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
Only watched first period.

We dominated possession. We controlled the game. We attacked. I liked a lot of what we did...

In the end it was 2-0. Bad PP positioning, and interference not called.
I cant really remember the second goal off the top of my head.

Woke up to hear it was 5-0.

So now we got killed in Canada trip. Im not liking this whatsoever.

I am now thinking this:
We got what you wanted you fans! You wanted another high priced, big name, known sniper... We got Nash for ya and left behind two key role players. A team that was #1 in the East under Torts.

Torts was the issue... Well his team seemed to have no problem last night.

We attacked and played OFFENSE and RUSHED like u all wanted. We created a beautiful offense...

Yet now were losing games and by large margins.

Not happy. Worried for season. May miss playoffs.
You didn't see the game and you are spouting off? Torts's team got outshot 41 - 20 with a big advantage in PP time. The shots are indicative of how the game went. Hank played poorly; Luongo played well and we iced two 4th lines with Pyatt on our second line (yikes) and didn't capitalize on our good chances. Not a biggie.

For those who did see the game, we all know the 2nd goal was brutal but we can't let him off for the last two goals. Kesler's deflection although sick goes in because Hank is out of position and caught standing up (like Ed Mio used to). The last goal goes in because he was too deep; I don't care if it changed direction; from that angle he needs to leave no room. Not a terrible goal but one he should stop.

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Old
09-27-2013, 10:42 AM
  #56
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This is really the bottom line. And to your point on the defense I have always maintained that they WILL give up more goals this year. It's just a fact of life that Torts' system promoted limiting GA above all else. With Lundqvist the Rangers won't be "bad" but they will give up more. The kicker is if under AV they can score more to make up for it. Or else we will just be watching "entertaining losses".

They've got time here and they need it. Stepan and Callahan back will be enormous. Hagelin too in a few weeks.

I wimped out and fell asleep after the first. Pyatt looked better than I thought he would.
Pyatt had a good start but then he held Richie and Zucc back. Richie made some great passes but they were to rushing defenseman cause Taylor couldn't stay in the play. His forecheck is fine but his skating and finish is putrid. There's no room for him on this team.

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Old
09-27-2013, 10:47 AM
  #57
Barbara Underhill
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I think I may have finally outgrown this message board. Scary thought, but man is it hard to read 90% of this nonsense.
I think a lot of us are feeling this way lately.

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Old
09-27-2013, 10:48 AM
  #58
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I think a lot of us are feeling this way lately.
yup. unfortunately.

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Old
09-27-2013, 10:56 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
I think I may have finally outgrown this message board. Scary thought, but man is it hard to read 90% of this nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Yup, it's not so much discussing hockey anymore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I think a lot of us are feeling this way lately.
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
yup. unfortunately.
You can check out anytime you like, but you can never leave.

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Old
09-27-2013, 11:16 AM
  #60
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I think the early season might be a bit of a bitter pill with all the road games, and the new system.

But if we can go .500 in it, it should set the team up nicely for the rest of the season with the return of some players to the lineup.

I don't expect guys like Nash to really try hard in preseason, so some of the struggles are understandable.

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Old
09-27-2013, 11:34 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
oh and I thought Richards actually played well last night, about as well as anyone else. He made several very good passes and created some chances,

The reffing also seemed weirdly biased but that's not what kept the Rangers from scoring any goals
You and I clearly did not watch the same game.

I saw 1 great pass, I believe to pinching D Moore for a great chance.
That was it. Rest of his game sucked.

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Old
09-27-2013, 11:37 AM
  #62
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I know it's "just the preseason" but that doesn't mean it's not embarrassing to get smoked when we have 90% of our starting lineup in the game + our franchise goalie. The officiating was brutal too (how was the first VAN goal not goalie interference..?)


Either way, I was extremely happy with what I saw from some guys despite the final score. Richards was...good? This game is a positive just from that alone. He still made a few dumb ass plays but if he can play like he did last night we're gonna be in good shape this year

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Old
09-27-2013, 11:40 AM
  #63
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
You and I clearly did not watch the same game.

I saw 1 great pass, I believe to pinching D Moore for a great chance.
That was it. Rest of his game sucked.
Richards made at least 4 or 5 slick passes throughout the neutral zone and the offensive zone with the puck that I can remember. He also created a nice scoring chance for himself when he shielded the puck nicely from the VAN defender and cut to the net alone. He was bad on the power play though; had a couple pretty brutal looks that resulted in us giving up possession

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Old
09-27-2013, 01:35 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
You could have just said cause he's Swedish and saved yourself alot of time. They are two players in different leagues. One matches up against the best players in the leaguie and makes the all-star team and the other is something of a journeyman who although improving has yet to prove that much. Stop the madness.
Are you kidding me? What does nationality have to do with anything? I don't even follow Swedish hockey.

The point of the post was that one player does not only facilitate a lot more scoring chances, he also prevents them to a greater extent than the other player. In a game where all defencemen saw similar ice time and likely matchups as well, that is fairly significant. Wouldn't it make sense to play the former defenceman more than the latter defenceman in such situations, in this case 5v5?

Re. All-star. First of all that was two years ago and should have little impact on lineup decisions today. Secondly, Girardi's all-star nomination was a joke at the time. If a Ranger defenceman should have gotten it it was McDonagh, but Girardi as more proven at that point and became the "alibi" choice. People wanted to pick a defensive defenceman from a good defensive team to seem cool, it was evident then and it is evident now.

I mean I'm really happy for Girardi that he got it, I wish him all the best. But it wasn't really deserved.

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Old
09-27-2013, 01:42 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I think the early season might be a bit of a bitter pill with all the road games, and the new system.

But if we can go .500 in it, it should set the team up nicely for the rest of the season with the return of some players to the lineup.

I don't expect guys like Nash to really try hard in preseason, so some of the struggles are understandable.
haha if we go .500 I'll make out with my Mom.

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Old
09-27-2013, 01:52 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by PK Pilot 76 View Post
Richards is looking a lot better, IMO.
Just wondering in what way do you see improvement? I have only seen 50% of the preseason but I haven't seen anything from Richards that fuel optimism of him having any sort of bounce back

-

As far as everyone jumping off the bridge because of preseason results and everyone else telling them they are overreacting. Both sides are somewhat right, lucky for the Rangers and us fans these games don't count. But in just a few days they will and with The Rangers in the deepest division in the NHL they can't still be figuring things out come Monday. There is no division in which it'll be harder to make the playoffs than the Metro, and although it's a long season as we know at the end, every game counts, from the first to 82.

Losing in preseason is nothing to worry about but losing 5-0 in preseason with your starter in net and top 6 D in the game sure is cause for concern.

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Old
09-27-2013, 01:54 PM
  #67
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After watching the team "play" last night I've gone from mildly concerned to semi-panicked.

is there a softer team in the NHL?

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Old
09-27-2013, 01:54 PM
  #68
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We CORSI'd the **** out of Vancouver last night. Luongo stood on his head and Hank was the victim of several bad deflections. It happens. Game didn't count. Let's move on.

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Old
09-27-2013, 01:58 PM
  #69
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We CORSI'd the **** out of Vancouver last night.
Hahahaha. This line made my day!
Agree completely, but when the guy was sitting there calculating these advanced metrics I doubt he pictured this sentence to occur. Ever.

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Old
09-27-2013, 02:00 PM
  #70
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Brassard and pouliot looked great in the offensive zone. Some real creative work and pouliot has slick enough hands to settle down some tough passes/odd angles. A bright spot for sure along with Stralman, J.Moore, and MZA.

As for the game, seemed like a lot of bad shots from the point/half boards. Didn't seem all that difficult for Lolungo.

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Old
09-27-2013, 02:15 PM
  #71
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Richards actually looked pretty good in the 1st period. Leveled off with most of the rest of the team in the 2nd. I didn't watch the 3rd. I could have but....He does seem to play his best with Zucc IMO. He seemed okay with Pyatt as well. A much better fit at least for now than with Nash and Kreider. He looked like a player again.

There have been a lot of deflection goals. I'm not sure why but the front of the net is not as clogged as it has been in past seasons I'm thinking is part of the reason. If it keeps up the Rangers defense is going to need to find some happy medium between their defense attacking more with AV's system and Tortorella's defending the net at all costs mentality. In any case many of the players are used to playing a certain way now and might be thinking too much and that can make a player more reactive than proactive.

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Old
09-27-2013, 02:26 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Richards actually looked pretty good in the 1st period. Leveled off with most of the rest of the team in the 2nd. I didn't watch the 3rd. I could have but....He does seem to play his best with Zucc IMO. He seemed okay with Pyatt as well. A much better fit at least for now than with Nash and Kreider. He looked like a player again.

There have been a lot of deflection goals. I'm not sure why but the front of the net is not as clogged as it has been in past seasons I'm thinking is part of the reason. If it keeps up the Rangers defense is going to need to find some happy medium between their defense attacking more with AV's system and Tortorella's defending the net at all costs mentality. In any case many of the players are used to playing a certain way now and might be thinking too much and that can make a player more reactive than proactive.
Richie actually had a brilliant backhand saucer pass to Moore. Moore couldn't score on it, but he did draw a penalty and got the Rangers a PP.

It looked like the richie of old

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Old
09-27-2013, 02:33 PM
  #73
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Richie actually had a brilliant backhand saucer pass to Moore. Moore couldn't score on it, but he did draw a penalty and got the Rangers a PP.

It looked like the richie of old
He was even skating okay. I was amazed.

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Old
09-27-2013, 02:54 PM
  #74
Fitzy
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Originally Posted by KreiMeARiver View Post
haha if we go .500 I'll make out with my Mom.
There's not really much of an incentive for either one of us to be correct on this one.

But I don't think .500 is unreasonable with this D and Henrik in net. I do not believe the guys are going all out this preseason with the exceptions of Miller and Fast. Nash is just sort of coasting through the motions.

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Old
09-27-2013, 02:58 PM
  #75
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I hope they go .500 because it'll mean Rangers games might be fun to watch for a bit, and also because that guy will make out with his mom and it'll be weird for the rest of his life.

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