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[EDM/STL] David Perron for Magnus Paajarvi + 2nd '14 | Part 2

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09-27-2013, 06:44 PM
  #651
Trafalgar Law
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Originally Posted by manningite View Post
Does anyone else believe that J. Joensuu will be an improvement over MPS in the role that we all kept hoping MPS would do and he did start filling last year, which is a third line pushing weight around in front of the net, hitting, and essentially distracting/deflecting role?

Personally I think that with Perron deal we got a steal and our free agency pickup JJ more than makes up for the loss of what MPS was supposed to bring.
Yikes, I think Joensuu was a perfect addition to our bottom 6 and love the signing. But there's no way he's a Paajarvi replacement. Paajarvi has arguably Taylor Hall speed and is the first man back almost every time, making him our most defensively responsible forward last year. Joensuu I'd be content with just having average footspeed and passable defence. However, he is everything we wanted Hartikainen to be so far. Hopefully he keeps it up.

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09-27-2013, 06:53 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Trafalgar Law View Post
Yikes, I think Joensuu was a perfect addition to our bottom 6 and love the signing. But there's no way he's a Paajarvi replacement. Paajarvi has arguably Taylor Hall speed and is the first man back almost every time, making him our most defensively responsible forward last year. Joensuu I'd be content with just having average footspeed and passable defence. However, he is everything we wanted Hartikainen to be so far. Hopefully he keeps it up.
I'd say the Hartikainen comparison is a lot more fair. Him and Paajarvi are totally different players with totally different skill sets who will be used in different situations.

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09-27-2013, 06:56 PM
  #653
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I'd say the Hartikainen comparison is a lot more fair. Him and Paajarvi are totally different players with totally different skill sets who will be used in different situations.
The thing is he wasn't comparing players, comparing whether the role we wanted PRV to play is going to be better suited with JJ, and I'd say the answer so far is yes. Prv has good speed and defensive smarts, but we needed him to be more physical or put up more points. A 30 point Joesnuu is better than a 30 point Prv for this club at this point in time.

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09-27-2013, 07:01 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by OilerFan4Life View Post
Perron has sick mitts. He's a faster Gagner with a much better release.
He is also more effective when he plays gritty.

<mod edit>


Last edited by s7ark: 09-28-2013 at 02:04 PM. Reason: not appropriate
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09-27-2013, 07:03 PM
  #655
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The thing is he wasn't comparing players, comparing whether the role we wanted PRV to play is going to be better suited with JJ, and I'd say the answer so far is yes. Prv has good speed and defensive smarts, but we needed him to be more physical or put up more points. A 30 point Joesnuu is better than a 30 point Prv for this club at this point in time.
I'll disagree with that but I respect your opinion.


I need to see more of Joensuu first, I'm not sure if his extra physicality makes up for MPS' two way play and speed.

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09-27-2013, 07:40 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
The thing is he wasn't comparing players, comparing whether the role we wanted PRV to play is going to be better suited with JJ, and I'd say the answer so far is yes. Prv has good speed and defensive smarts, but we needed him to be more physical or put up more points. A 30 point Joesnuu is better than a 30 point Prv for this club at this point in time.
yeah a 30 point joesnuu is a lot better option than a 30 point paajarvi... the problem is that joensuu will *never*, i repeat NEVER, score 30 points in the NHL

so yes, it would be great to have a 6'4", 210# hitting machine that also puts up 30 points a season, but we don't have that player, not even close... i like joensuu so far, but expecting anything north of 15-20 points is pure fantasy-land stuff

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09-27-2013, 07:49 PM
  #657
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yeah a 30 point joesnuu is a lot better option than a 30 point paajarvi... the problem is that joensuu will *never*, i repeat NEVER, score 30 points in the NHL

so yes, it would be great to have a 6'4", 210# hitting machine that also puts up 30 points a season, but we don't have that player, not even close... i like joensuu so far, but expecting anything north of 15-20 points is pure fantasy-land stuff
Really...what exactly are you basing this on?

In his short NHL career (67 games) Joensuu has averaged .22 points per game. In an 82 game schedule that translates to an 18 point season.
Lets also take into account that Joensuu played a grand total of 7 games last season due to a sports hernia.

So really you are suggesting that having Joensuu tread water much less improve on his last full season in the NHL (at 23 years old) is a fantasy?

You might want to rethink that statement. The smart money suggests that Joensuu will easily surpass 18 points on this team (with the opportunities he will get) even if he doesnt play 82 games.

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09-27-2013, 07:51 PM
  #658
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yeah a 30 point joesnuu is a lot better option than a 30 point paajarvi... the problem is that joensuu will *never*, i repeat NEVER, score 30 points in the NHL

so yes, it would be great to have a 6'4", 210# hitting machine that also puts up 30 points a season, but we don't have that player, not even close... i like joensuu so far, but expecting anything north of 15-20 points is pure fantasy-land stuff
Why is it fantasy land? He's been crashing the net like crazy and actually has excellent puck skills for a big guy. He's been first star in 2 of our pre season wins so far. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him get 30 points.

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09-27-2013, 08:56 PM
  #659
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yeah a 30 point joesnuu is a lot better option than a 30 point paajarvi... the problem is that joensuu will *never*, i repeat NEVER, score 30 points in the NHL

so yes, it would be great to have a 6'4", 210# hitting machine that also puts up 30 points a season, but we don't have that player, not even close... i like joensuu so far, but expecting anything north of 15-20 points is pure fantasy-land stuff
I don't think they'll be much difference in goals scored here on in. Joensuu looks to have stepped his game up to another level and is willing to go to the paint time and time again and has show some better than expected hands. Paajarvi way too tentative and why he's not here. not sure why the Joensuu Paajarvi convo anyway.

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09-27-2013, 08:58 PM
  #660
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Really...what exactly are you basing this on?

In his short NHL career (67 games) Joensuu has averaged .22 points per game. In an 82 game schedule that translates to an 18 point season.
Lets also take into account that Joensuu played a grand total of 7 games last season due to a sports hernia.

So really you are suggesting that having Joensuu tread water much less improve on his last full season in the NHL (at 23 years old) is a fantasy?

You might want to rethink that statement. The smart money suggests that Joensuu will easily surpass 18 points on this team (with the opportunities he will get) even if he doesnt play 82 games.
Yeah, he's going to get a chance playing with some talent here in that bottomsix

heh, good to see you coming around on this player. He'll be useful.

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09-27-2013, 10:47 PM
  #661
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Yeah, he's going to get a chance playing with some talent here in that bottomsix

heh, good to see you coming around on this player. He'll be useful.
Same can be said for you and Joensuu, good sir.



Glad to see he has pleasantly surprised you.

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09-27-2013, 10:58 PM
  #662
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Yeah, he's going to get a chance playing with some talent here in that bottomsix

heh, good to see you coming around on this player. He'll be useful.
Well...if I am 'coming around' on this player by suggesting he score on par with Lennart Petrell then your bar is pretty low.
If he scores at a rate of 0.26 ppg and get 21 points that's exactly what he will accomplish.

He may be useful...time will tell.

I just dont think he will be as useless as jadeddog is projecting.

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09-27-2013, 11:36 PM
  #663
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Same can be said for you and Joensuu, good sir.



Glad to see he has pleasantly surprised you.
heh

Hey, I came around in July or August on this player. Before any puck was dropped. I had a ****** stat source that was hiding some of what Joensuu had done in Europe.

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09-27-2013, 11:37 PM
  #664
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Well...if I am 'coming around' on this player by suggesting he score on par with Lennart Petrell then your bar is pretty low.
If he scores at a rate of 0.26 ppg and get 21 points that's exactly what he will accomplish.

He may be useful...time will tell.

I just dont think he will be as useless as jadeddog is projecting.
Thanks for the positive version clarification..

What I see here is a player that can score a dozen goals and be a pita to play against in every game. We'll see, but he appears to get it. Guys on last chance borrowed time sometimes pan out. I like the physical aspect of play, not shy around the net, and can handle and dish puck reasonably well. A better skating Harti is more the comparable.

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09-28-2013, 09:31 AM
  #665
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Is it true St. Louis might put PRV on waivers?

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09-28-2013, 10:42 AM
  #666
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Is it true St. Louis might put PRV on waivers?
Maybe, but I doubt it. He has not been able to adapt to the St.Louis system yet but I think they will give him more time (on their 4th line).

The point is that even if he has not lived up to what they were hoping for they have a couple of players (4th liners) who are neither worse nor better really (imo) but don´t have to worry about waivers so I think they will be sent down instead of PRV. At least for now I think that is the situation.

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09-28-2013, 01:52 PM
  #667
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Is it true St. Louis might put PRV on waivers?
Maybe a 0.0000001% chance they do.

Cracknell or Porter will be the last forward cut.

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09-28-2013, 02:03 PM
  #668
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I'll disagree with that but I respect your opinion.


I need to see more of Joensuu first, I'm not sure if his extra physicality makes up for MPS' two way play and speed.
Speed is only so good though. I give PRV his defensive skill, but his speed offensively has been useless so far.

I do agree on more time being needed though. Just think JJ could be a better fit overall for us going forward.

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09-28-2013, 02:07 PM
  #669
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nabob=Marc Spector? Spec was taking cheap shots on Gagner via twitter the other day as well.
I was thinking the exact same thing. Spec has been exposed I honestly had a chuckle at nabobs comment. If that comment seriously bothers anybody it's time to toughen up.

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09-28-2013, 02:19 PM
  #670
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Maybe a 0.0000001% chance they do.

Cracknell or Porter will be the last forward cut.
we should be on the phone about either one of those 2 guys.

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09-28-2013, 03:09 PM
  #671
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Is it true St. Louis might put PRV on waivers?
If they're considering it, we should be on the phone trying to get him back. He'd actually fill out our top 9 perfectly

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09-28-2013, 03:40 PM
  #672
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I don't think they'll be much difference in goals scored here on in. Joensuu looks to have stepped his game up to another level and is willing to go to the paint time and time again and has show some better than expected hands. Paajarvi way too tentative and why he's not here. not sure why the Joensuu Paajarvi convo anyway.
I started the comparison just to see what people thought about this question...

The club/coach last year were working with MPS to make him a hitting, powerful force in front of the net grinder which he almost took offence to at first but then started into the role with mixed success. Now with JJ do people think we have,found that which the team felt we needed out of MPS, perhaps even a better version of it.

I was tired of Perron/MPS comparisons and predictions of MPSs career. My thoughts are between that trade and picking up JJ we have filled that role and scored ourselves a better two way forward.

All the luck to Magnus in St. Louis I will add.

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09-28-2013, 03:41 PM
  #673
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Really...what exactly are you basing this on?

In his short NHL career (67 games) Joensuu has averaged .22 points per game. In an 82 game schedule that translates to an 18 point season.
Lets also take into account that Joensuu played a grand total of 7 games last season due to a sports hernia.

So really you are suggesting that having Joensuu tread water much less improve on his last full season in the NHL (at 23 years old) is a fantasy?

You might want to rethink that statement. The smart money suggests that Joensuu will easily surpass 18 points on this team (with the opportunities he will get) even if he doesnt play 82 games.
i think expecting a player to almost double (18 to 30+) their career average is fantasy land, yes... i don't see how that is unreasonable

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09-28-2013, 03:49 PM
  #674
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i think expecting a player to almost double (18 to 30+) their career average is fantasy land, yes... i don't see how that is unreasonable
Maybe because he's never been an established player before, and once players get established they tend to double the production of their up and down years quite frequently? It's 10 points, not like he's going from 40 to 80. Jesus I know Oiler fans have had some bad years and expect everything to go badly, but if you are thinking it is fantasyland to expect a 23 year old guy who has barely played in the league to get 10 points more when he's actual going to get consistent minutes for once, that is just ridiculous.

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09-28-2013, 03:57 PM
  #675
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i think expecting a player to almost double (18 to 30+) their career average is fantasy land, yes... i don't see how that is unreasonable
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
i like joensuu so far, but expecting anything north of 15-20 points is pure fantasy-land stuff
Let me know when you decide specifically what is a fantasy and what isnt.

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