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Pre #7|Friday, Sep. 27, 2013|Flyers at Capitals|7:00 p.m. ET

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Old
09-28-2013, 12:01 PM
  #551
FlyersFan61290
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
The problem with a lot of people on this board is you aren't allowed to be a realist if your POV sees the Flyers in a negative light. If you say something "bad," you open up the flood gates for a bunch of people calling you a terrible, clueless fan.

I love the Flyers, but he fact of the matter is this team is not very good. At least, not a legit contender for a few more years. We may squeak into the playoffs as a bottom seed, but don't expect a deep playoff run. The system Lavy is implementing is terrible for this roster. We have a good crop of forwards and I think we have a decent blue line (even though it is missing that #1 stud), but our forwards aren't strong enough defensively for this system.

Unless Lavy brings in a new system, or we he gets fired, I see no real reason to be highly optimistic this season
What bothers me is that people continue to say why is everyone freaking out they only played two games as a group or something to that effect, as if those of us calling for a change of some sort are basing everything off of this preseason or these two games. Come on man, open your eyes, we're seeing the same mistakes and problems for literally years now. I don't understand why anyone would think it's gonna change/fix itself, cause they added Streit, Vinny, Mason and Emery?

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09-28-2013, 12:14 PM
  #552
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I don't think it's unrealistic or overstating things to say that the Flyers have something to prove after last season. What we have seen so far is, arguably, a poor omen. I agree that preseason losses are fine as long as there is progress in the evaluation of players and in the team coming together as a cohesive unit. As others have said, however, the same bad habits and lack of preparation, positioning and ability to adapt within a game have been on display. It's worrisome, and it should be worrisome for the people running this organization who have paid top dollar for the talent on the ice and who are beholden to we fans whose willingness to invest time and money in their organization that feeds their budget sheet.

I don't expect perfection, but I do expect progress. Identify what caused a loss and try to fix it. I'm not seeing many signs of progress across the board.

Yes, I'll be fine to hold stronger judgement until games that matter are decided. But the taste of last season remains bitter in my mouth. And I think we deserve better.

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09-28-2013, 12:31 PM
  #553
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What bothers me is that people continue to say why is everyone freaking out they only played two games as a group or something to that effect, as if those of us calling for a change of some sort are basing everything off of this preseason or these two games. Come on man, open your eyes, we're seeing the same mistakes and problems for literally years now. I don't understand why anyone would think it's gonna change/fix itself, cause they added Streit, Vinny, Mason and Emery?
There's always going to be people with blinders. They annoy me but I try to pay them no mind nowadays.

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09-28-2013, 12:33 PM
  #554
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I don't think it's unrealistic or overstating things to say that the Flyers have something to prove after last season. What we have seen so far is, arguably, a poor omen. I agree that preseason losses are fine as long as there is progress in the evaluation of players and in the team coming together as a cohesive unit. As others have said, however, the same bad habits and lack of preparation, positioning and ability to adapt within a game have been on display. It's worrisome, and it should be worrisome for the people running this organization who have paid top dollar for the talent on the ice and who are beholden to we fans whose willingness to invest time and money in their organization that feeds their budget sheet.

I don't expect perfection, but I do expect progress. Identify what caused a loss and try to fix it. I'm not seeing many signs of progress across the board.

Yes, I'll be fine to hold stronger judgement until games that matter are decided. But the taste of last season remains bitter in my mouth. And I think we deserve better.
I'm worried about the system more than ever. The F-D. gap is just too big, they are too spread out. You can't establish any rhythm to the game if you're always trying stretch passes and leaving the D out to dry.

More and more I'm starting to believe that Lavy really does need to go, and soon, and that Terry Murray might be just the right guy to instill a winning system for this team. Given the type of talent, they should just use whatever systems the Bruins are and go from there...


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09-28-2013, 12:53 PM
  #555
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We are screwed if this keeps going on. Nothing has changed. No defense in front of the goalie who at least give an crap. Scoring is low. They don't show up when the game starts, wait until the middle of the first or the second period to get into the game. We aren't doing anything this year.

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09-28-2013, 01:13 PM
  #556
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I'm worried about the system more than ever. The F-D. gap is just too big, they are too spread out. You can't establish any rhythm to the game if you're always trying stretch passes and leaving the D out to try.

More and more I'm starting to believe that Lavy really does need to go, and soon, and that Terry Murray might be just the right guy to instill a winning system for this team. Given the type of talent, they should just use whatever systems the Bruins are and go from there...
Very true. It's not rocket surgery that if your squad isn't blessed with an abundance of smooth puck-handling defensemen, you shorten the passes to reduce risk.

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09-28-2013, 01:46 PM
  #557
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Very true. It's not rocket surgery that if your squad isn't blessed with an abundance of smooth puck-handling defensemen, you shorten the passes to reduce risk.
I know and some actually blame Homer and say he hasn't provided Lavi with the guys he needs to play in his system as if there are no alternatives to the way Lavi does things. Well sorry but you can't have a d-core of Kimmo, Karlsson, Yandle, Streit, Enstrom etc it's just not practical and honestly I think you'd get killed in your own zone anyway. Players that can do it all (the Prongers, Webers and Charas of the league) are franchise d-man and can't be had for cheap. I really don't know what these people want. There's no reason this roster should be struggling so much.

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09-28-2013, 01:56 PM
  #558
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At this point it's getting into Homer-blame territory for keeping Lavi so long when hes either refused, or been incapable of, fixing the teams problems game after game, or even across seasons when he has all the time in the world to figure out what went wrong.

It took him close to 20-30 games across 2 seasons to realize he needed to have a forward drop back to receive the pass. That's stopped working because the opposition keeps pressure on that guy and he's immediately in trouble. We need to move the puck forward as a unit, not as individuals there's no puck support. Nobody is around to help each other; I continue to see a lot of 2 on 1 matchups while a Flyer tries to get clear of the zone. They continue to skate right into the other team while favoring one side of the boards instead of opening the ice by passing across. Boston is excellent at getting out of their end and they do all of these things. They don't look hard to do.

As for Emery, I have to look poorly on Holmgren. They guy isn't mobile. That was clear in Chicago, that he was now a positional guy. We've spent what, 2-3 seasons now watching positional goalies get ruined on this team? Like the Bryz signing, this looks like something that was poorly scouted by Homer and company...they probably just went with the familiar. Schneider and Bernier were available goddamnit.

Edit: Oh, and I'm positive this roster is playing well below its skill level.

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09-28-2013, 02:04 PM
  #559
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At this point it's getting into Homer-blame territory for keeping Lavi so long when hes either refused, or been incapable of, fixing the teams problems game after game, or even across seasons when he has all the time in the world to figure out what went wrong.

It took him close to 20-30 games across 2 seasons to realize he needed to have a forward drop back to receive the pass. That's stopped working because the opposition keeps pressure on that guy and he's immediately in trouble. We need to move the puck forward as a unit, not as individuals there's no puck support. Nobody is around to help each other; I continue to see a lot of 2 on 1 matchups while a Flyer tries to get clear of the zone. They continue to skate right into the other team while favoring one side of the boards instead of opening the ice by passing across. Boston is excellent at getting out of their end and they do all of these things. They don't look hard to do.

As for Emery, I have to look poorly on Holmgren. They guy isn't mobile. That was clear in Chicago, that he was now a positional guy. We've spent what, 2-3 seasons now watching positional goalies get ruined on this team? Like the Bryz signing, this looks like something that was poorly scouted by Homer and company...they probably just went with the familiar. Schneider and Bernier were available goddamnit.
how many here wanted to give up an asset for a "unproven" commodity. I would of given up a 1st rounder for either guy.
Now we have to deal with those 2 young goalies in our conference for the next dozen years. while the Flyers once again have question marks in goal.
remember the old saying you get what you pay for.
Now there is a chance that either Mason or Emery could work out. I am not banking on it tho. Especially with Mason.

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09-28-2013, 02:04 PM
  #560
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I know and some actually blame Homer and say he hasn't provided Lavi with the guys he needs to play in his system as if there are no alternatives to the way Lavi does things. Well sorry but you can't have a d-core of Kimmo, Karlsson, Yandle, Streit, Enstrom etc it's just not practical and honestly I think you'd get killed in your own zone anyway. Players that can do it all (the Prongers, Webers and Charas of the league) are franchise d-man and can't be had for cheap. I really don't know what these people want. There's no reason this roster should be struggling so much.
Homer is the one who hired Lavi and Stevens before that. One way or another Homer has to receive some blame here. The fact that Homer has been here for years and we've gotten nowhere aside from one miraculous SCF run and some people still refuse to lay any blame on Homer is beyond me. We've gone through a whole era of Richards, Carter, and Stevens and now we're going through an era of Laviolette and we still are pissed off at how under-performing our team is. In that sense, nothing has changed from the Carter/Richards days.
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
At this point it's getting into Homer-blame territory for keeping Lavi so long when hes either refused, or been incapable of, fixing the teams problems game after game, or even across seasons when he has all the time in the world to figure out what went wrong.

It took him close to 20-30 games across 2 seasons to realize he needed to have a forward drop back to receive the pass. That's stopped working because the opposition keeps pressure on that guy and he's immediately in trouble. We need to move the puck forward as a unit, not as individuals there's no puck support. Nobody is around to help each other; I continue to see a lot of 2 on 1 matchups while a Flyer tries to get clear of the zone. They continue to skate right into the other team while favoring one side of the boards instead of opening the ice by passing across. Boston is excellent at getting out of their end and they do all of these things. They don't look hard to do.

As for Emery, I have to look poorly on Holmgren. They guy isn't mobile. That was clear in Chicago, that he was now a positional guy. We've spent what, 2-3 seasons now watching positional goalies get ruined on this team? Like the Bryz signing, this looks like something that was poorly scouted by Homer and company...they probably just went with the familiar. Schneider and Bernier were available goddamnit.

Edit: Oh, and I'm positive this roster is playing well below its skill level.
Still baffles me that the most talented young goalie in the league without a starter job was landed for Bo Horvat. I'm not only amazed at that price but the fact that teams like the Flyers never offered anything more then that.

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09-28-2013, 02:07 PM
  #561
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how many here wanted to give up an asset for a "unproven" commodity. I would of given up a 1st rounder for either guy.
Now we have to deal with those 2 young goalies in our conference for the next dozen years. while the Flyers once again have question marks in goal.
remember the old saying you get what you pay for.
Now there is a chance that either Mason or Emery could work out. I am not banking on it tho. Especially with Mason.
I have faith in Mason's rebound potential, but the best I can see him ever doing is being an average to below average starter a la Pavelec. I had some faith in Emery too because I know he has the talent, his last stint here was promising, and his record with Chicago was fantastic but I never got to see him play in Chicago. Now that I've seen him play it's obvious his hip necrosis has affected his mobility a bit. In my mind, the best we can hope for is for Mason to rebound into an Emery-like player. A player that is more of a 1B then anything.

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09-28-2013, 02:08 PM
  #562
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Homer is the one who hired Lavi and Stevens before that. One way or another Homer has to receive some blame here. The fact that Homer has been here for years and we've gotten nowhere aside from one miraculous SCF run and some people still refuse to lay any blame on Homer is beyond me. We've gone through a whole era of Richards, Carter, and Stevens and now we're going through an era of Laviolette and we still are pissed off at how under-performing our team is. In that sense, nothing has changed from the Carter/Richards days.


Still baffles me that the most talented young goalie in the league without a starter job was landed for Bo Horvat. I'm not only amazed at that price but the fact that teams like the Flyers never offered anything more then that.
I could have happily parted with Laughton or Cousins.

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09-28-2013, 02:11 PM
  #563
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I could have happily parted with Laughton or Cousins.
For Schneider I would have offered as much as Cousins+Laughton or Laughton/Cousins+1st rounder. That should have landed him.

Not like Laughton or Cousins play at an area of need for us. We're stacked at center and Laughton only has the upside of a 2nd line defensive star while Cousins only has the upside of a secondary scoring 2nd line pest. Both are good upsides but that's best-case-scenario and even in that best case we already have a surplus at forward.

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09-28-2013, 02:15 PM
  #564
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Homer is the one who hired Lavi and Stevens before that. One way or another Homer has to receive some blame here. The fact that Homer has been here for years and we've gotten nowhere aside from one miraculous SCF run and some people still refuse to lay any blame on Homer is beyond me. We've gone through a whole era of Richards, Carter, and Stevens and now we're going through an era of Laviolette and we still are pissed off at how under-performing our team is. In that sense, nothing has changed from the Carter/Richards days.
I'm in no way trying to absolve Homer of blame. I just find it hilarious to hear people say Lavi should not be fired saying cause "Homer didn't provide him with the right personnel for his system". Right now I'm primarily pissed at Homer for not firing Lavi in the offseason.

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09-28-2013, 02:20 PM
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I'm in no way trying to absolve Homer of blame. I just find it hilarious to hear people say Lavi should not be fired saying cause "Homer didn't provide him with the right personnel for his system". Right now I'm primarily pissed at Homer for not firing Lavi in the offseason.
I think both are the case. On the one hand, Lavi wasn't given the players that work best on a team coached by him (Though Streit is an attempt to rectify that). On the other hand, Homer also hasn't fired Lavi.

So Homer has given the coach a roster he clearly can't work with, and then decided to keep that coach around.

I'll let the pear summarize:



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09-28-2013, 02:33 PM
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I have faith in Mason's rebound potential, but the best I can see him ever doing is being an average to below average starter a la Pavelec. I had some faith in Emery too because I know he has the talent, his last stint here was promising, and his record with Chicago was fantastic but I never got to see him play in Chicago. Now that I've seen him play it's obvious his hip necrosis has affected his mobility a bit. In my mind, the best we can hope for is for Mason to rebound into an Emery-like player. A player that is more of a 1B then anything.
Mason cant go anywhere but up after his prior 3 seasons. too small of a sample size last season for me regarding Mason. Now that the pressure is ramped back up we will see about Mason.
Emery is a positional sound goalie and had a ton of support from the Hawks defenseman.

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09-28-2013, 07:47 PM
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Wonder how long into the upcoming season papa Holmgren has to come into the locker room to motivate Lavi's players? I swear our GM has been in the locker room to dress down the players probably more than any GM in the league. It's pretty pathetic. He did it a ton with Stevens and a good amount of times with Lavi....

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09-28-2013, 08:50 PM
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Mason cant go anywhere but up after his prior 3 seasons. too small of a sample size last season for me regarding Mason. Now that the pressure is ramped back up we will see about Mason.
Emery is a positional sound goalie and had a ton of support from the Hawks defenseman.
Problem is... with our system, I doubt any goalie would do very well. We tried bryz, who did well in phoenix due to their system. We now have emery who did very well on the hawks, but is already struggling with our system (although the sample size is small).

So, again, I think the system is to blame for almost all of our issues. We are also apparently seeing the team not able to play for 60 minutes, which is another issue from last year that is already carrying over, hell, even some of the younger guys trying to make the club fell into this trap.

The coache's system doesn't fit the team, and apparently he isn't able to motivate them to play for 60 minutes. It happened all of last season and has shown up in preseason.

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09-28-2013, 11:27 PM
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I'm in no way trying to absolve Homer of blame. I just find it hilarious to hear people say Lavi should not be fired saying cause "Homer didn't provide him with the right personnel for his system". Right now I'm primarily pissed at Homer for not firing Lavi in the offseason.
as a Devils fan looking in, I have to agree with you here. The coach has to adapt his coaching strategy to fit the team given to him. Yes, the GM is responsible to trying to acquire players that fit well with a coach's vision, but really, any good coach should be able to adjust to the team he has, not just sit with his eyes closed and fingers in his ears saying "no we will just do my system the way i want it no matter what". I believe it was Einstein that defined insanity as "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

again, I don't see all of your guys' games. but you don't really have to be an expert on Flyers hockey to see something is really wrong on your guys ship. Whether you guys think it is sinking or not or talk of abandoning ship, not my place to say, but as a fan of a rival, I hope you guys don't change a thing.

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09-29-2013, 01:09 PM
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Man this board is pretty devoid of positivity.

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09-29-2013, 01:34 PM
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Man this board is pretty devoid of positivity.
Outside of our defensive system being spaz-tastic, it's going to be fun with our goaltending and offense.

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09-29-2013, 02:07 PM
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Man this board is pretty devoid of positivity.
when the team shows its turned a corner. we'll all be here to rain sunshine.

till then it just appears were headed for more of the ******** as last 2 seasons plus...

not counting the outcomes of the preseason games. just watching how they played/prepared/ and are coached. leaves basicly no reason to expect a sudden turn to winning hockey

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