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Old
09-28-2013, 10:11 PM
  #76
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I would love see Downie on a line with coots and Read but I doubt he is the guy coming back. Although, didn't Downie go after Landeskog and drop the gloves with him because he thought Landeskog was careless with a check that was on Downies's knee?

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09-28-2013, 10:46 PM
  #77
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Am I the only person excited to see a 4th line of Rosehill/Laughton/Rinaldo?? Talk about a line that's gonna be fun to watch and tough to play against.. I'm in. I'm sure it won't last but it'll be fun for a bit. And they won't get enough ice time to be liabilities, so no worries there.

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09-28-2013, 11:03 PM
  #78
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Am I the only person excited to see a 4th line of Rosehill/Laughton/Rinaldo?? Talk about a line that's gonna be fun to watch and tough to play against.. I'm in. I'm sure it won't last but it'll be fun for a bit. And they won't get enough ice time to be liabilities, so no worries there.
Yeah, I think Rinaldo and Laughton will start some fires and keep Rosehill busy.

I am not comparing Laughton to Forsberg in any way but Forsberg started his career on a 4th line with Chris Simon and some other grinder. He said it was a great learning experience and he had fun just being able to run around hitting guys without the pressure to produce.

Laughton just has to get the puck deep and let Rinaldo and Rosehill punish the other teams d.

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09-28-2013, 11:19 PM
  #79
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Let's not forget Mike Richards started his career here on the 4th line as well and he turned out alright (not that I think Laughton will ever be as good as him but you get where Im going with this)

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09-28-2013, 11:54 PM
  #80
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i always trust flyers when it comes to forwards

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09-29-2013, 12:37 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I trust Gus more than I trust Gervais and Mez. He's always had a tendency to improve with more playing time, and the team in general is a hot mess right now; that's not going to help many players look good.

Gervais is only going to get worse from here on out and Mez looks like a husk of himself.
Gus has always started off shaky and then looked very solid for the remainder of his time through the end of the season the past two years.....just need to give him a shot to keep playing at this point. If after 20 games he is consistently god awful then dump him, if he plays solid let him play out the year to see what you have.

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09-29-2013, 01:00 AM
  #82
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Pick up Goloubef and trade Mez to Carolina, especially since Carolina just traded away a couple players, and could make room for Mez's contract.

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09-29-2013, 09:06 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Gus has always started off shaky and then looked very solid for the remainder of his time through the end of the season the past two years.....just need to give him a shot to keep playing at this point. If after 20 games he is consistently god awful then dump him, if he plays solid let him play out the year to see what you have.
Gus has always starts off shaky but finishes strong? Care to elaborate on how a guy who has played 60 career NHL games has "always started off shaky" but looks solid for the remainder of the season? The guy has yet to play the equivalent of an entire season in the NHL over his three years of NHL experience. But he always starts off shaky and finishes strong. Why does Gus get all this love around here? If I said the same thing about another player that has only played 60 NHL games over three years, I would get laughed out of here. Hell I get laughed out of here when I say Mez could possibly return to his form of two years ago.

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09-29-2013, 09:12 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Gus has always starts off shaky but finishes strong? Care to elaborate on how a guy who has played 60 career NHL games has "always started off shaky" but looks solid for the remainder of the season? The guy has yet to play the equivalent of an entire season in the NHL over his three years of NHL experience. But he always starts off shaky and finishes strong. Why does Gus get all this love around here? If I said the same thing about another player that has only played 60 NHL games over three years, I would get laughed out of here. Hell I get laughed out of here when I say Mez could possibly return to his form of two years ago.
I get what you're saying. At the same time, the Flyers (in particular, Laviolette) have really bungled Gustafsson's development. Injuries haven't helped either.

As for Meszaros, yep, I believe he can come back and be a better player than he was two years ago. People forget that he came back early from back surgery and then he had all those freak injuries last season. Let him have a healthy off season and give him a chance to put everything together.

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09-29-2013, 09:25 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Gus has always starts off shaky but finishes strong? Care to elaborate on how a guy who has played 60 career NHL games has "always started off shaky" but looks solid for the remainder of the season? The guy has yet to play the equivalent of an entire season in the NHL over his three years of NHL experience. But he always starts off shaky and finishes strong. Why does Gus get all this love around here? If I said the same thing about another player that has only played 60 NHL games over three years, I would get laughed out of here. Hell I get laughed out of here when I say Mez could possibly return to his form of two years ago.
57 of his 60 regular season games came in the past two years. He also had 7 playoff games two years ago, combined that's a little less then 50 percent of the Flyers games in the past two years. It's not nearly enough to say what he is but yes in each stint he started off slow but got better and consequently saw his ice time increased. Even two years ago before his wrist injury Lavi was giving him close to 20 minutes a night, last year he finished the season averaging 20 a night. The more he plays, the better he plays it seems. You don't need 100's of games to notice the trend.

Btw as of late he hasn't gotten much love and there's nothing wrong with that. Most of the Gus "supporters" just want to see him get playing time to see what he'll become.


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09-29-2013, 09:51 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Pick up Goloubef and trade Mez to Carolina, especially since Carolina just traded away a couple players, and could make room for Mez's contract.
Carolina traded two guys who combined had a cap hit of $1.3M and were both not going to be on the team anyways.

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09-29-2013, 09:52 AM
  #87
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Gustaffson really needs to play regular minutes the whole year and then he can be resigned if he's good, or let go if he's not.

Meszaros and his bum shoulder really doesn't have a future here.

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09-29-2013, 10:12 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
57 of his 60 regular season games came in the past two years. He also had 7 playoff games two years ago, combined that's a little less then 50 percent of the Flyers games in the past two years. It's not nearly enough to say what he is but yes in each stint he started off slow but got better and consequently saw his ice time increased. Even two years ago before his wrist injury Lavi was giving him close to 20 minutes a night, last year he finished the season averaging 20 a night. The more he plays, the better he plays it seems. You don't need 100's of games to notice the trend.

Btw as of late he hasn't gotten much love and there's nothing wrong with that. Most of the Gus "supporters" just want to see him get playing time to see what he'll become.
This seems to be the mindset of these boards when it comes to Gus, but not when it comes to other players. He's played 60 games (57 over the past two years). So let's just call it 30 a season. In two 30 game seasons he has started slow but finished strong. You are going to tell me that two 30 game seasons, where he has started slow but finished strong, is enough to tell you that the more he plays the better he gets? And if I said that about some random guy on the Rangers or Penguins, you would agree that two 30 game seasons is enough to tell that a guy should be given more time because he finished those two 30 game seasons strong? I find that hard to believe.

I'm not knocking the guy at all and saying he'll never amount to anything. All I'm saying is he has proven nothing at all, and simply giving him more time is not something I would do for a kid that was not a very highly touted player coming out of college, that the team doesn't have a lot invested in, and hasn't shown that he can be that player just to see if he will get better. If he plays well and they put him the starting lineup, great. But just sticking him out there to see if he can play well over an 82 game season isn't great "asset management" as you guys like to call it. Don't force it based on two strong finishes in two 30 game seasons.

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09-29-2013, 10:14 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Gus has always started off shaky and then looked very solid for the remainder of his time through the end of the season the past two years.....just need to give him a shot to keep playing at this point. If after 20 games he is consistently god awful then dump him, if he plays solid let him play out the year to see what you have.
Agree, we have to give Gus an honest shot and see what we have wig him, and 20 games is prob a fair look. This is what I want to start with.

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I still would like to try and get Postma from Jets. Young , right handed cheap offensive puck mover

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09-29-2013, 10:16 AM
  #90
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Pick up Goloubef and trade Mez to Carolina, especially since Carolina just traded away a couple players, and could make room for Mez's contract.
What has happened to that kid. I don't know a lot about him, but I remember proposals always included he or John Moore ? I wonder if it is worth a claim, or has he fallen off completely.

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09-29-2013, 10:26 AM
  #91
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What has happened to that kid. I don't know a lot about him, but I remember proposals always included he or John Moore ? I wonder if it is worth a claim, or has he fallen off completely.
I think Columbus has finally gotten to a point in the world where they have an actual numbers game.

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09-29-2013, 10:54 AM
  #92
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I think Columbus has finally gotten to a point in the world where they have an actual numbers game.
That's exactly what it is. Goloubef is a good defenseman on a team with simply too much defensive depth. I'd be amazed if he went unclaimed

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09-29-2013, 10:54 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
This seems to be the mindset of these boards when it comes to Gus, but not when it comes to other players. He's played 60 games (57 over the past two years). So let's just call it 30 a season. In two 30 game seasons he has started slow but finished strong. You are going to tell me that two 30 game seasons, where he has started slow but finished strong, is enough to tell you that the more he plays the better he gets? And if I said that about some random guy on the Rangers or Penguins, you would agree that two 30 game seasons is enough to tell that a guy should be given more time because he finished those two 30 game seasons strong? I find that hard to believe.

I'm not knocking the guy at all and saying he'll never amount to anything. All I'm saying is he has proven nothing at all, and simply giving him more time is not something I would do for a kid that was not a very highly touted player coming out of college, that the team doesn't have a lot invested in, and hasn't shown that he can be that player just to see if he will get better. If he plays well and they put him the starting lineup, great. But just sticking him out there to see if he can play well over an 82 game season isn't great "asset management" as you guys like to call it. Don't force it based on two strong finishes in two 30 game seasons.
Attempting to continue the development of a young, inexpensive player (who I believe is eligible for waivers) who has generally shown he can stick in a bottom pairing role is better asset management than putting a 4 million dollar, injury prone guy out there and praying he both returns to form and doesn't miss another 60 games when his back or shoulder or who knows what else fails him again after another routine hit or play.

The kind of injuries he's suffered and missed extensive time for are the type that can completely trash a player. Ask Parent about his back injuries, for instance. Or, how is Gagne doing after missing lots of time for injury? There are very few players who miss significant time over a few seasons and return as if nothing happened. I don't see how Mez is worth the risk, his ceiling isn't high enough to begin with compared to his cap hit.

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09-29-2013, 11:39 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
This seems to be the mindset of these boards when it comes to Gus, but not when it comes to other players. He's played 60 games (57 over the past two years). So let's just call it 30 a season. In two 30 game seasons he has started slow but finished strong. You are going to tell me that two 30 game seasons, where he has started slow but finished strong, is enough to tell you that the more he plays the better he gets? And if I said that about some random guy on the Rangers or Penguins, you would agree that two 30 game seasons is enough to tell that a guy should be given more time because he finished those two 30 game seasons strong? I find that hard to believe.

I'm not knocking the guy at all and saying he'll never amount to anything. All I'm saying is he has proven nothing at all, and simply giving him more time is not something I would do for a kid that was not a very highly touted player coming out of college, that the team doesn't have a lot invested in, and hasn't shown that he can be that player just to see if he will get better. If he plays well and they put him the starting lineup, great. But just sticking him out there to see if he can play well over an 82 game season isn't great "asset management" as you guys like to call it. Don't force it based on two strong finishes in two 30 game seasons.
Name a player in a similar situation that guys on here haven't been as lenient with.

As I said it's not a lot of time but in his short period here he's shown he's got some skill and can play at this level in some capacity. Like most other players entering the league he has some consistency issues, only time will tell what kind of player he's gonna be. You can't expect people to "prove" their worth when they haven't had the opportunity to play much (injuries/on a team crowded with vets).

I don't understand why people wanting to know what he could do by giving him more playing time is a bad thing. Especially considering the team current situation with cap space and the only alternative to Gus being Mez who's been worse this preseason and has a 4 mil cap hit.

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09-29-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Attempting to continue the development of a young, inexpensive player (who I believe is eligible for waivers) who has generally shown he can stick in a bottom pairing role is better asset management than putting a 4 million dollar, injury prone guy out there and praying he both returns to form and doesn't miss another 60 games when his back or shoulder or who knows what else fails him again after another routine hit or play.
Gus is going to be 25 in two months, he's not exactly at the age where his development is really a concern. As far as Mez and his $4 million price tag, if he fits under the cap, his contract is 100% irrelevant. $4 million in the pressbox is exactly the same as $4 million on the third pair is exactly the same as $4 million on the top pair. Same thing with injuries. If he is healthy, the fact that he MIGHT get injured is irrelevant. It isn't like I am talking about signing him to a long term deal. In that respect, money and injuries are absolutely a concern. But he is signed and he is healthy. So money and health are irrelevant.

That being said, I once again revert to my argument that is clearly insane: 500+ games prior to an injury carry more weight than 60 average NHL games. Especially when both players have played at about the same level all pre-season.

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The kind of injuries he's suffered and missed extensive time for are the type that can completely trash a player. Ask Parent about his back injuries, for instance. Or, how is Gagne doing after missing lots of time for injury? There are very few players who miss significant time over a few seasons and return as if nothing happened. I don't see how Mez is worth the risk, his ceiling isn't high enough to begin with compared to his cap hit.
I'm not too sure I ever said he would return as if nothing happened. I think I said he could possibly get back to the form he had two years ago. And again, when a guy is already on the roster, it isn't a "risk" to play him because he isn't worth his cap hit or he might get injured. It would be a risk to sign him to a long term deal, I agree. But no one is suggesting that. I am only suggesting, like I have been all offseason, that if Mez and Gus are both on the roster opening day, that Mez plays. He could lose that spot at any time, but it is his spot to lose.

The proven but injured player does and should have the benefit of the doubt over the unproven unheralded player. Again, he could lose that spot due to poor play (or good play from Gus), but he doesn't lose it because Gus might maybe one day if given the chance possibly be a low-end top four guy based on what we have seen from 60 games over three seasons where a lot of them were pretty good but some weren't too good but he is only 25 and probably maybe one day will be better than Mez because CORSI says so.

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09-29-2013, 11:44 AM
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What about when that proven and injured player is terrible through the preseason? From what I've seen of the two, Gus is preferable.

Mez has shown little sign of being what we need him to be. He needs to be that guy who can drop bombs from the blue line and help generate offense, while being decent defensively. I haven't seen him come close to doing either in preseason. Can he do that after back and shoulder injuries? He just looks out of place. What will he injure trying to keep up with the play? On top of that, he's likely going to be on a bottom pairing. With his cap hit that doesn't make sense. Gus simply makes more sense than Mez on a lot of levels.

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09-29-2013, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Name a player in a similar situation that guys on here haven't been as lenient with.
Off the top of my head I can't think of any, most likely because a guy who plays average over a three year 60 game NHL career on any other team would never be discussed on this board. Haha. Just my speculation that if Gus was on another team, or there was another player in a similar situation that the Penguins or Rangers board were talking about, many of those praising Gus would be calling those people crazy because the guy hasn't really shown too much in a very small sample size, but people are calling him a top four defender.

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As I said it's not a lot of time but in his short period here he's shown he's got some skill and can play at this level in some capacity. Like most other players entering the league he has some consistency issues, only time will tell what kind of player he's gonna be. You can't expect people to "prove" their worth when they haven't had the opportunity to play much (injuries/on a team crowded with vets).
Oh absolutely. And I am not saying Gus sucks and shouldn't be taken seriously. All I am saying is that on this team, there are better options. I'm not going to play Gus because in parts of parts of two season he looked pretty decent. Just like I wouldn't play Eric Wellwood to see what he could become just because he looked pretty good. You play the guy who earns the spot, not the guy who might earn the spot if you give him the chance. You probably think that those 60 games over two years earned him the spot, that seems to be where I differ with everyone else. I don't think he earned anything. Did he show some promise? Sure. But that doesn't earn you a spot.

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I don't understand why people wanting to know what he could do by giving him more playing time is a bad thing. Especially considering the team current situation with cap space and the only alternative to Gus being Mez who's been worse this preseason and has a 4 mil cap hit.
Again, cap hits don't matter if they are already on the team and they fit under the cap. And again, IMO, you don't play guys at the NHL just to see if they can succeed. I guess if you are in a rebuild you do that, but I don't see this team as a rebuild. I think they have a shot at the playoffs.

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09-29-2013, 12:01 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
What about when that proven and injured player is terrible through the preseason? From what I've seen of the two, Gus is preferable.
And that's fine. If Lavi is in the same camp, that Gus earned the spot. Great. I've been saying that all along. If Gus earns the spot, it is his. I'm not too sure I agree with you on that. I think they have been about the same throughout form what I have seen. And with that, like I've been saying, Mez would get the nod for the reasons previously stated.

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Mez has shown little sign of being what we need him to be. He needs to be that guy who can drop bombs from the blue line and help generate offense, while being decent defensively. I haven't seen him come close to doing either in preseason. Can he do that after back and shoulder injuries? He just looks out of place. What will he injure trying to keep up with the play?
Time will tell. These are questions that need to be answered for Gus as well (though just substitute injury concerns with experience concerns). Which again leads me back to the previously mentioned benefit of the doubt.

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On top of that, he's likely going to be on a bottom pairing. With his cap hit that doesn't make sense. Gus simply makes more sense than Mez on a lot of levels.
If you are so concerned with cap hits...isn't $4 million in the press box worse than $4 million on the third pair?

I also want to not that I agree with you that if someone is going to be moved, it should be Mez. But if no one is moved, I think Mez gets the nod.

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09-29-2013, 12:14 PM
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Am I the only person excited to see a 4th line of Rosehill/Laughton/Rinaldo?? Talk about a line that's gonna be fun to watch and tough to play against.. I'm in. I'm sure it won't last but it'll be fun for a bit. And they won't get enough ice time to be liabilities, so no worries there.
That's an egregious waste of Laughton's skill and time.

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09-29-2013, 12:26 PM
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What about when that proven and injured player is terrible through the preseason? From what I've seen of the two, Gus is preferable.
In fairness to Meszaros, the team itself hasn't looked good this pre season. Meszaros is a symptom of what's wrong with this team - no defensive structure in place and bad decisions are being made simply because of game rust. If the team could use a rehab assignment for Meszaros, that would be ideal. Let him go to Adirondack, get his legs and game back and he's ready to go.

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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Mez has shown little sign of being what we need him to be. He needs to be that guy who can drop bombs from the blue line and help generate offense, while being decent defensively. I haven't seen him come close to doing either in preseason. Can he do that after back and shoulder injuries? He just looks out of place. What will he injure trying to keep up with the play? On top of that, he's likely going to be on a bottom pairing. With his cap hit that doesn't make sense. Gus simply makes more sense than Mez on a lot of levels.
In fairness, this club has shown little of what they need to be. They look disorganized, uninterested and very confused as to what the coach wants. Once again, Meszaros is more a symptom of what's wrong with this club. I'm confident Meszaros can find his game again. The problem is that as long as Laviolette is the coach, he'll never find it in Philadelphia. Get a coach in there that has a clue and Meszaros gets back on track.

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