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Trade in works for Flyers?

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Old
09-29-2013, 11:32 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Off the top of my head I can't think of any, most likely because a guy who plays average over a three year 60 game NHL career on any other team would never be discussed on this board. Haha. Just my speculation that if Gus was on another team, or there was another player in a similar situation that the Penguins or Rangers board were talking about, many of those praising Gus would be calling those people crazy because the guy hasn't really shown too much in a very small sample size, but people are calling him a top four defender.
Or cause this isn't an all too common situation. Most teams have a pipeline of players and they give them an opportunity to play. Also I wouldn't call a Pens or Rangers fan crazy cause I wouldn't know enough about their players to say otherwise. What I do know is if another team was in a similar situation, and they got rid of Mez and gave Gus or a similar player an opportunity as the 6th d-man no one would think twice about it.

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Oh absolutely. And I am not saying Gus sucks and shouldn't be taken seriously. All I am saying is that on this team, there are better options. I'm not going to play Gus because in parts of parts of two season he looked pretty decent. Just like I wouldn't play Eric Wellwood to see what he could become just because he looked pretty good. You play the guy who earns the spot, not the guy who might earn the spot if you give him the chance. You probably think that those 60 games over two years earned him the spot, that seems to be where I differ with everyone else. I don't think he earned anything. Did he show some promise? Sure. But that doesn't earn you a spot.
Wellwood only looked good while on Richard'ss wing, that's it. Gus on the other hand has looked at least ok with everyone outside of Gervais and Gill this preseason. Wellwood also never had significant ice time and played well with it unlike Gus. IMO it's a terrible comparison.

And no I don't think he earned a spot, my point is given the teams current situation and the fact that Gus and Mez aren't far apart in terms of play why wouldn't you give the guy with a potential future in the organization a shot to earn a spot. Next year the team will be yet again up against the cap and they won't have the luxury of having a 4 mil d-man on the 3rd pairing. A 1 mil d-man on the other hand would be just fine on the 3rd pairing. It would be smart to play Gus now while the d core is still mostly intact (Kimmo could potentially be gone and Streit/Grossmann/Coburn would be a year older and probably worse for it). If he doesn't perform as a solid 3rd pairing guy then you know you have to pursue other options. You won't have that luxury if you play Mez cause of what he used to be.

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Again, cap hits don't matter if they are already on the team and they fit under the cap. And again, IMO, you don't play guys at the NHL just to see if they can succeed. I guess if you are in a rebuild you do that, but I don't see this team as a rebuild. I think they have a shot at the playoffs.
Yeah except the team is over the cap (capgeek isn't counting MAB which puts them more then .1 mil or whatever over the cap) and is only carrying 21 players, meaning they'll have to add a 13th forward at minimum. Sure you could but Pronger on LTIR but if easily avoided without losing much if anything in terms of quality players why wouldn't you? And again this kinda ties back to the point I made earlier which is you need to know what you have in Gus for next year.

Btw, this isn't just Flyers fans. A couple Avs fans on their board were talking about acquiring Gus instead of Mez and it wasn't for cap issues (unlike us they don't have any) or monetary considerations cause fans simply don't have those, owners/management does. They were also concerned with Mez's injury history and bad preseason after not having played much hockey over the last 18 months or whatever.

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09-29-2013, 11:49 AM
  #102
Johnny Hoxville
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Guys what do you want for Mez from the Flames. Draft picks are not an option for us.

Would something like Stempniak for Mez and a 3rd work?

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09-29-2013, 11:51 AM
  #103
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We literally have no use for Stempniak as we are now.

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09-29-2013, 11:54 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Guys what do you want for Mez from the Flames. Draft picks are not an option for us.

Would something like Stempniak for Mez and a 3rd work?
Flyers are looking for a bottom six forward, preferably someone with grit to play on our 3rd line with Couturier and Read so they would be expected to have some offensive skill.

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09-29-2013, 11:59 AM
  #105
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Stempniak got 32pts in 47 games last year. He's very good defensively and great on the PK, he can also play either wing. If you need a good 3rd line winger, he's probably the best of any yah could be available. His contract is up at the end of this season.

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09-29-2013, 12:12 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
Stempniak got 32pts in 47 games last year. He's very good defensively and great on the PK, he can also play either wing. If you need a good 3rd line winger, he's probably the best of any yah could be available. His contract is up at the end of this season.
We need someone physical. Granted Stempniak is more offensively capable than Gagne at this stage of the game, but there's a reason Gagne was put to the wayside even for a guy like Cleary via PTO.

McGinn failed. Laughton won't be moved to wing.

Talbot is our most capable option right now because he can play rough and potentially open up space for Couturier and Read; possibly offer them a little protection.

We need a physical veteran who can play awesome defensively and possibly put up some points as well. That would be ideal, but the points are the least important part of that rundown.

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09-29-2013, 12:25 PM
  #107
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If only we had drafted a big bodied power forward who can open up space on the 3rd line and shoot the puck as well. Someone from val d'or maybe.

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09-29-2013, 12:27 PM
  #108
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That's an egregious waste of Laughton's skill and time.
Is it any worse though than when Ken Hitchcock had Mike Richards play between Donald Brashear and Brian Savage? Gut feeling still says that when the season is said and done, Lecavalier moves to Giroux's left side, Couturier is bumped up to the second line center and Laughton takes the third line spot.

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09-29-2013, 12:27 PM
  #109
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If only we had drafted a big bodied power forward who can open up space on the 3rd line and shoot the puck as well. Someone from val d'or maybe.
Or if Washington passed up on Tom Wilson two years ago.....

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09-29-2013, 12:30 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Or if Washington passed up on Tom Wilson two years ago.....
I know but I'm still really high on that guy everyone was saying I was too high on before the draft. That kid that now has 14 points in 5 games in the Q... If only the flyers fired their scouting staff and hired me, right?

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09-29-2013, 12:31 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
Or if Washington passed up on Tom Wilson two years ago.....
This, Flyers weren't gonna draft Mantha at 11 and honestly I like the way things turned out this past draft. As much as I like Laughton, Wilson would of been perfect for this team.

Edit: That is who he was talking about correct?

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09-29-2013, 12:32 PM
  #112
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I know but I'm still really high on that guy everyone was saying I was too high on before the draft. That kid that now has 14 points in 5 games in the Q... If only the flyers fired their scouting staff and hired me, right?
#11 was way too early for Mantha. That's what pretty much everyone said last year, and it turned out to be accurate, no?

In any case, isn't he more of a top-six player than a 3rd-liner?

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09-29-2013, 12:35 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
#11 was way too early for Mantha. That's what pretty much everyone said last year, and it turned out to be accurate, no?

In any case, isn't he more of a top-six player than a 3rd-liner?
Yeah I would say he projects to be a top six guy but very few jump straight into that role. Plus on a line with Couts and Read even considering their defensive responsibilities they aren't a 3rd line on many teams in the league.

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09-29-2013, 12:40 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Is it any worse though than when Ken Hitchcock had Mike Richards play between Donald Brashear and Brian Savage? Gut feeling still says that when the season is said and done, Lecavalier moves to Giroux's left side, Couturier is bumped up to the second line center and Laughton takes the third line spot.
Brian Savage could actually take a shift and was a half-decent penalty killer. Likewise, Richards was used as a top penalty killer. Laughton likely wouldn't be.

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09-29-2013, 12:41 PM
  #115
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Yeah I would say he projects to be a top six guy but very few jump straight into that role. Plus on a line with Couts and Read even considering their defensive responsibilities they aren't a 3rd line on many teams in the league.
IMO Wilson will be a top 6 player eventually but for now he would have been a perfect fit on our third line. He's far more physical than Mantha.

I like Laughton but we could have really used Wilson more on this team right now.

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09-29-2013, 12:48 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
Brian Savage could actually take a shift and was a half-decent penalty killer. Likewise, Richards was used as a top penalty killer. Laughton likely wouldn't be.
Laughton - Read
Couturier - Talbot

?

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09-29-2013, 12:51 PM
  #117
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Laughton - Read
Couturier - Talbot

?
As long as Hall is in the AHL, I'd think Laughton would have to get at least some PK time.

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09-29-2013, 12:52 PM
  #118
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Wilson made Coburn look like an AHL defender on his goal on Friday, but it's not like we passed him over to take Laughton.

I think it's interesting that the defender the Flyers supposedly had their eye on in 2011 (Siemens) can't get on the Colorado roster.

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09-29-2013, 12:54 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Wilson made Coburn look like an AHL defender on his goal on Friday, but it's not like we passed him over to take Laughton.

I think it's interesting that the defender the Flyers supposedly had their eye on in 2011 (Siemens) can't get on the Colorado roster.
Yeah, I agree. Can you imagine the outcry around here had things gone a bit closer to plan? If the Jets take Couturier, and we pick Siemens over Hamilton?

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09-29-2013, 12:59 PM
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Along those lines, even though Morin looked ahead of schedule in the preseason and is already proving people like me wrong, imagine if the Flyers had picked 8th this year and taken him ahead of Ristolainen who is going to be in the Sabres top 6.

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09-29-2013, 01:02 PM
  #121
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Well, reportedly we wanted Wilson, and most of us were enthusiastically, bordering hysterically, against it.

I was one of the people not sold on Wilson.

Damn did he prove me wrong, and honestly, if the Flyers wanted Wilson over Laughton, they were right. Both will be great NHLers, but Wilson is exactly who we need right now.

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09-29-2013, 01:15 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
IMO Wilson will be a top 6 player eventually but for now he would have been a perfect fit on our third line. He's far more physical than Mantha.

I like Laughton but we could have really used Wilson more on this team right now.
Funny how time changes peoples minds. If I remember the draft back then, everyone was saying that the worst thing the Flyers could do was draft a goon like Wilson. Now it looks like he is the 2nd coming.... I still think Scott will be a very good pro for us and he will do just fine. To be 19 and in the NHL. Dam.

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09-29-2013, 01:19 PM
  #123
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Funny how time changes peoples minds. If I remember the draft back then, everyone was saying that the worst thing the Flyers could do was draft a goon like Wilson. Now it looks like he is the 2nd coming.... I still think Scott will be a very good pro for us and he will do just fine. To be 19 and in the NHL. Dam.
I was skeptical but I wouldn't have been terribly upset if they would have drafted him at the time.

People just got too hung up on his stats much like they did Lucic years ago.

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09-29-2013, 01:46 PM
  #124
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I was skeptical but I wouldn't have been terribly upset if they would have drafted him at the time.

People just got too hung up on his stats much like they did Lucic years ago.
Bit of a different situation too--Lucic was a late 2nd. At that point, you can feel a bit more free to take a shot on a boom/bust guy than the middle of the 1st round.

But yeah, at this point, it is hard to argue that Wilson wouldn't be a better fit--but who knew that we were going to end up with Lecavalier?

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09-29-2013, 01:52 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Or cause this isn't an all too common situation. Most teams have a pipeline of players and they give them an opportunity to play. Also I wouldn't call a Pens or Rangers fan crazy cause I wouldn't know enough about their players to say otherwise. What I do know is if another team was in a similar situation, and they got rid of Mez and gave Gus or a similar player an opportunity as the 6th d-man no one would think twice about it.
Well I'll keep this scenario in mind and be on the lookout for a situation to see what people's reactions are in the future. Haha.


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Wellwood only looked good while on Richard'ss wing, that's it. Gus on the other hand has looked at least ok with everyone outside of Gervais and Gill this preseason. Wellwood also never had significant ice time and played well with it unlike Gus. IMO it's a terrible comparison.
He looked "ok" in four games this preseason with everyone other than certain players is now what we are going with for Gus? Throughout his illustrious career spanning across three seasons, he has looked I would say average at his absolute best, and he has not shown that consistently throughout this incredibly large sample size. Wellwood, I think is a pretty good comparison...a guy who has looked average or ok for part of his NHL time, and not so average or ok for other parts. I wouldn't put (a healthy) Wellwood out there based on his career thus far if there was a veteran option coming off an injury.

Once again, obviously if he earned the spot, that is a different story, but you don't earn the spot by looking ok in a parts of parts of a couple seasons.

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And no I don't think he earned a spot, my point is given the teams current situation and the fact that Gus and Mez aren't far apart in terms of play why wouldn't you give the guy with a potential future in the organization a shot to earn a spot. Next year the team will be yet again up against the cap and they won't have the luxury of having a 4 mil d-man on the 3rd pairing. A 1 mil d-man on the other hand would be just fine on the 3rd pairing. It would be smart to play Gus now while the d core is still mostly intact (Kimmo could potentially be gone and Streit/Grossmann/Coburn would be a year older and probably worse for it). If he doesn't perform as a solid 3rd pairing guy then you know you have to pursue other options. You won't have that luxury if you play Mez cause of what he used to be.
If that is the tack you are taking then why not play McGinn, Raffl, and so forth. See what we have this year and deal with it in the offseason if guys aren't working out. Why make that exception for Gus but not McGinn? We need a third line winger and McGinn is young and has shown promise. Put him out there and just see how he does. If that doesn't work call up Raffl and see how he does. If that doesn't work call up Akeson so that we know what we have. That isn't how it works unless you are committing to a rebuild. You ice the best team based on what they do on the ice. Not their age. Not their contract. Not anything else. Again, if Lavi thinks Gus earned that spot, then ok. Suit 'em up and I'll shut my mouth. But I just don't think he has.

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Yeah except the team is over the cap (capgeek isn't counting MAB which puts them more then .1 mil or whatever over the cap) and is only carrying 21 players, meaning they'll have to add a 13th forward at minimum. Sure you could but Pronger on LTIR but if easily avoided without losing much if anything in terms of quality players why wouldn't you? And again this kinda ties back to the point I made earlier which is you need to know what you have in Gus for next year.
So trade Mez. I have no problem with that. I have been expecting and advocating for that since pretty much day one this offseason. But if they are both on the team and under the cap, that is a different story. Trading a player because of a bad contract and injury concerns is fine. Not playing a guy on your team because of bad contracts and injury concerns is not a good idea IMO. And in terms of seeing what we have in Gus, I think we know. A bottom pairing defenseman. If Mez wasn't in the picture I would have no problem with Gus being there. But Mez is here for now.

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Btw, this isn't just Flyers fans. A couple Avs fans on their board were talking about acquiring Gus instead of Mez and it wasn't for cap issues (unlike us they don't have any) or monetary considerations cause fans simply don't have those, owners/management does. They were also concerned with Mez's injury history and bad preseason after not having played much hockey over the last 18 months or whatever.
Oh crap. I take back everything I said.

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