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Old
09-29-2013, 03:07 PM
  #126
Tawnos
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Playing with Brad Richards did him no favors either. I still think people ignore the fact that he played very well the last 2 games. he will be back soon and he will be big for us
Well, it didn't help Richards that Kreider rarely gave him a target to get the puck to. Too much watching players with blinders on going on here.

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09-29-2013, 03:09 PM
  #127
NYRangers723
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Well, it didn't help Richards that Kreider rarely gave him a target to get the puck to. Too much watching players with blinders on going on here.

Actually Richards missed him a lot going to the net. Im not saying Kreider was good teh first 2 games, he clearly wanst but i will say richards missed him and everybody that played with him

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09-29-2013, 03:11 PM
  #128
Jim Ramsay
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Look i like miller but i think people are going a little crazy for him right now. I mean his defense last year was pretty bad. Even this year in the preseason
I'm not even really talking about this preseason so much, just what I've watched of the players from before this year...which hasn't been a TON, but enough for me to form my opinion.

I'm a fan of both players, There is just something I notice when I watch Miller, he just kind of passes 'the eye test' for me. Miller is 2 years younger and seems to 'think' the game better than Kreider.

There is just too many times when I watch Kreider that he looks completely lost or I don't notice he is playing. I think both will definitely be NHLers....

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09-29-2013, 03:19 PM
  #129
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I don't know if Kreider will ever become a big part of the Rangers. He shows flashes of brilliance, and then often makes you wonder why he's on the ice. He's a Christensen, Wolski type of player where I don't think he'll ever find consistency in the NHL. Obviously, it's too early to tell and a solid year in the AHL will do him wonders. It's like he's got the body and talent for the NHL, but he doesn't have the head for it. You can blame Torts for that, but he's had a fresh start, a full camp to impress everybody and he's still invisible like last season. Aside from the one play where he was soft on clearing the puck and covering the guy in front of the net, which resulted in a goal, he's not even on the rink making mistakes that he can learn from - he's simply invisible.

His value and stock as fallen with the Rangers and around the NHL. I want to see him succeed. All the opportunity has been given to him and now it's time for him to earn his spot, through great play in the AHL. In my opinion, Miller has earned his spot. Kreider shouldn't be on the roster taking it away from him. I'm assuming Fast will be sent down after Hagelin and Callahan make their return.

I'm not hating on Kreider, but there's been so much hype on him, (and we can blame ourselves for believing the hype) that instead of watching the kid grow, we've simply been waiting for him to breakout and be a star. Because of that, he's been a huge disappointment. Unfair to him, but that's just the way it is.


Last edited by TGWL: 09-29-2013 at 03:25 PM.
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Old
09-29-2013, 03:21 PM
  #130
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Good, Kreider's lazy ass can stay in Hartford until he decides he wants to play. ugh so frustrated with him.. good for Miller and Fast, both deserve it

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Old
09-29-2013, 03:23 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Look i like miller but i think people are going a little crazy for him right now. I mean his defense last year was pretty bad. Even this year in the preseason
I'm not sure I agree with this. Miller and Lindberg have been 2 of our better 2-way players this preseason.

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Old
09-29-2013, 03:23 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by NYRangers723 View Post
Actually Richards missed him a lot going to the net. Im not saying Kreider was good teh first 2 games, he clearly wanst but i will say richards missed him and everybody that played with him
You expect Richards to put the puck through a keyhole for him every time. He is not creating any space or getting around anyone.
He needs to pull his head out of his butt.

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Old
09-29-2013, 03:29 PM
  #133
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I can't fathom how they keep Fast and Pyatt and cut Kreider. I didn't see anything from Fast that suggested he was any better than Kreider and Pyatt is a total plug. If Pyatt could fight and add toughness I wouldn't have a problem with the decision, but he's Charmin soft.

Kreiders first couple games weren't good, but he came on his last two games and looked better. For a young player that should be the most important thing; improvement. Obviously the rangers feel differently and refuse to be patient with a kid who's shown he can score in the playoffs

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Old
09-29-2013, 03:30 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I can't fathom how they keep Fast and Pyatt and cut Kreider. I didn't see anything from Fast that suggested he was any better than Kreider and Pyatt is a total plug. If Pyatt could fight and add toughness I wouldn't have a problem with the decision, but he's Charmin soft.
Fast's offensive game may or may not be there yet, but he was by far the best without the puck and in the D zone of all the rookies.

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Old
09-29-2013, 03:38 PM
  #135
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Kreider has had one season as a pro where he was jerked around by the organization who insisted he was ready. Anyone with any sense can see he needs more time, but this gloom and doom **** is ridiculous. Same posters coming out with their premature 'I told you so' crap. The Rangers are too hung up on what they think he can be to realize he's not ready for the NHL yet.

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09-29-2013, 03:39 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I can't fathom how they keep Fast and Pyatt and cut Kreider. I didn't see anything from Fast that suggested he was any better than Kreider and Pyatt is a total plug. If Pyatt could fight and add toughness I wouldn't have a problem with the decision, but he's Charmin soft.

Kreiders first couple games weren't good, but he came on his last two games and looked better. For a young player that should be the most important thing; improvement. Obviously the rangers feel differently and refuse to be patient with a kid who's shown he can score in the playoffs
What else has he shown besides scoring in his first playoff experience? Fast has been much better than Kreider. Pyatt, I agree with you. I thought he stunk last season, and this preseason hasn't shown me any improvement. He's around for his size and board play most likely, because he's about useless everywhere else. (Maybe he'll continue to be a rotation on the PK)

Kreider had 1 good game in preseason. JUST 1. For a young player improvement is very important, but where was the improvement? Playing a good last game after you had a poor, lazy camp? Kreider has actually brought his line-mates down during preseason. Again, I really like him and want to see him do well, but he has to earn his spot and nothing in preseason has lead me to believe he earned a spot on the rangers top 3 lines. He's certainly not sticking around for a 4th line role. There's absolutely no point in that.

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09-29-2013, 03:45 PM
  #137
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Sad to see Kreider not make the team. If he plays like he did in the 2012 playoffs he can be a 20 goal guy easily, problem is that he's playing as though he's a natural 20 goal guy...not much effort and he looks like hes dogging it half the time

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09-29-2013, 03:48 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Kreider has had one season as a pro where he was jerked around by the organization who insisted he was ready. Anyone with any sense can see he needs more time, but this gloom and doom **** is ridiculous. Same posters coming out with their premature 'I told you so' crap. The Rangers are too hung up on what they think he can be to realize he's not ready for the NHL yet.
Hit the nail on the head here.

Kreider always struck me as a player who would need more time to develop. It doesn't help matters when the organization has him penciled in for a top 6 spot instead of letting him develop naturally at his own pace.

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09-29-2013, 03:49 PM
  #139
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it sucks to bc if richards wasnt here.. lindberg would most likely be up too.. sucks we got vets stopping youth from coming up..


Last edited by dethomas07: 09-29-2013 at 03:58 PM.
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Old
09-29-2013, 03:49 PM
  #140
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Fasth has always been the best in our call ups. I liked Fasth over Lindberg because there's just more of a role for Fasth here right now than Lindberg. They both have a long progression ahead of them in the next 2 years and ice time wise, Lindberg is better off going through the process with the pack. We need more crafty players.

AV has stressed from the get go that he wants tough guys that can also play hockey. While Asham has been a little too zealous with his Nash mirroring, it has been more good than bad. His lack of fights and physicality was planned imo. You have tough guys that are trying to bonehead their way to a roster spot. Bickel and Mashinter both tried to do that. Dumb penalties that cost us all the momentum in the world. I don't think that screams smart hockey to AV or anyone for that matter. There have been like 5 people in the Asham camp through the preseason that thought he looked real good out there except for the physical aspects of his game which I'm sure he can amp up when the real games begin. Asham has all his years of experience and is a veteran at that role. I'd much prefer the vet who will definitely be a bigger offensive threat than Bickel or Mashinter or Powe.

Kreider of all people needs to go through the process. This demotion makes me think in the future, we'll be talking about him as the guy that had that one great playoff and signing with another team.

Pyatt looked good out there I thought. Not great but from the team's perspective, good. As the guy with experience in the league and with AV personally during the best seasons of his hockey career, he had a head start in winning the coaching staff over. I think Torts didn't put him in a role where he could excel. He did exactly what Torts asked of him and while he didn't break through and become a consistent threat on the ice, he was our highest scoring B6 player. The way Torts utilized big bodies is different from AV. With AV, they'll have more of a role on the team even if they're not physical.

I think a lot of the dislike of players from posters is based on what they saw in the year prior. While that's valid, there's a lot of other things to take in with the new coaching staff and the new roles these players can take on.

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Old
09-29-2013, 03:49 PM
  #141
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The season needs to start, soon and with something good.

We are already at status quo here in the boards: panic and anger

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09-29-2013, 04:04 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by dethomas07 View Post
it sucks to bc if richards wasnt here.. lindberg would most likely be up too.. sucks we got vets stopping youth from coming up..

We're also in WIN-NOW mode. Could we really say Lindberg helps us more than Richards this year? I'm not sure around that. Lindberg is going to be a good asset to us, but we can't go with as much youth as possible this season.

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09-29-2013, 04:06 PM
  #143
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Disappointing that Kreider didn't make the cut but he really has to find a way to get back to how he played in his first call up in the playoffs, and hell, even how he played in last years playoffs. He moved his feet, went to the net got the puck, etc. He seems like he's always struggling to apply practice information to game situations and is too careful an dtentative about where he should be, etc

Nice to see Fast and Miller make it for now anyways. Fast at least seems solid all around and hopefully will find some offense as things come along

Not sure about Richards on the wing but I guess try it out, why not

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09-29-2013, 04:10 PM
  #144
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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What else has he shown besides scoring in his first playoff experience? Fast has been much better than Kreider. Pyatt, I agree with you. I thought he stunk last season, and this preseason hasn't shown me any improvement. He's around for his size and board play most likely, because he's about useless everywhere else. (Maybe he'll continue to be a rotation on the PK)

Kreider had 1 good game in preseason. JUST 1. For a young player improvement is very important, but where was the improvement? Playing a good last game after you had a poor, lazy camp? Kreider has actually brought his line-mates down during preseason. Again, I really like him and want to see him do well, but he has to earn his spot and nothing in preseason has lead me to believe he earned a spot on the rangers top 3 lines. He's certainly not sticking around for a 4th line role. There's absolutely no point in that.
I find it very hard to believe there's no room for Kreider in the top 9 on this Rangers team with no Callahan or Hagelin.

What people don't seem to understand is that the preseason is used to tune up your game. Kreider showed improvement over his first two games which is what you're really looking for. I didn't see improvement from Fast; I saw invisibility through all games minus a few very small plays. Were people really expecting Kreider to come in and light up the preseason? He had more points than Richards and Nash combined...

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09-29-2013, 04:15 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I find it very hard to believe there's no room for Kreider in the top 9 on this Rangers team with no Callahan or Hagelin.

What people don't seem to understand is that the preseason is used to tune up your game. Kreider showed improvement over his first two games which is what you're really looking for. I didn't see improvement from Fast; I saw invisibility through all games minus a few very small plays. Were people really expecting Kreider to come in and light up the preseason? He had more points than Richards and Nash combined...
Improvement is good, but he didn't improve beyond what Fast showed and therefore it is irrelevant. The best players play.

Let's say Fast stated out at a level of 6 and stayed there throughout.

Kreider by comparison started out at 2 and managed to improve to 4, or maybe even 5. Still shouldn't make the team over Fast.

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09-29-2013, 04:16 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Disappointing that Kreider didn't make the cut but he really has to find a way to get back to how he played in his first call up in the playoffs, and hell, even how he played in last years playoffs. He moved his feet, went to the net got the puck, etc. He seems like he's always struggling to apply practice information to game situations and is too careful an dtentative about where he should be, etc

Nice to see Fast and Miller make it for now anyways. Fast at least seems solid all around and hopefully will find some offense as things come along

Not sure about Richards on the wing but I guess try it out, why not

Not sold on Fast. Hopefully when cally and hags come back he can spend some time in the AHL for some seasoning

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Old
09-29-2013, 04:18 PM
  #147
I Eat Crow
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Somebody please claim Bickel

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09-29-2013, 04:21 PM
  #148
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The hate on Pyatt is pretty fierce. He's soft yes, but he's not Boyle soft. Pyatt has more hockey sense, better hands, puck handling, puck possession and protection than Boyle. While Boyle is "good defensively", that was under John Tortorella. As someone said yesterday, the way we defend now is going to be different from years prior. If we go with the label of stone age hockey and defense, then with AV, we're moving away from that and into something that requires more hockey sense and reads and man on man defense as opposed to a collapse, shot block, 6 goalie structure defense. Truth is, Boyle hasn't looked great on the PK and in due time, I expect Boyle to slip away.

Pyatt had a strong game in Vancouver compared to last year. His line was great and I think AV saw that. The puck possession was better with Pyatt and he actually made a few plays and went to the net for one of our better scoring chances of the night. He made a few passes coming out of our zone that looks more like AV transition and protected the puck well when he had it.

Pyatt's role isn't to score 20 goals. There are bigger players who do not fight or play physical. The incessant complaint of Pyatt being Charmin' soft is getting out of date. Despite it being true, it's like complaining about Henrik not playing the puck 3-4 situations a game. It's just not a part of their game and it doesn't necessarily have to be.

He's judged almost entirely based on his utilization of his size in a physical manner which seems unfair.

Pyatt did good 10 minutes of board work and 4th line duties under Torts and now with a third line that's designed to be both a possession momentum line as well as a offensive threat, Pyatt will do just fine. He had 6 goals in 48 games last season which translate to about 10 in 82. 10 in 82 on a team that was allergic to role players scoring goals is nothing to ***** about. AV had great years with Pyatt and there's a reason for that.

Under Torts, Pyatt had clear instructions on what to do with the puck in the neutral zone and in our own zone: "Get it out, dump it in". He did this religiously. In fact, if we were to compiled a "what did Pyatt do with the puck" highlight reel, it would be getting it out of zones and giving the puck away 90% of the time, as Torts insisted upon. What was he suppose to do? Carry the puck into the zone and get spun around before turning it over because of the lack of support and then get caught behind the play?

If we all recognize that Torts dumped the puck in way too much, didn't get enough net front screen in place, or had players go to the net, or protect the puck in the offensive zone and hold onto it instead of throwing it in on a dump and chase, then why isn't it the case that Pyatt's limited role and contribution is seen through both his own shortcomings and Torts's coaching (as opposed to only Pyatt being "Charmin' Soft").

Like it or not, out of all the bottom 6 guys we had on the team, Pyatt is the biggest body suitable for screening the goaltender and picking up a few rebounds. He actually has hockey sense unlike Boyle. He picked up goals from rebounds twice in the playoffs being around that area and pretty much had his fair share from around the net in the regular season.

There has been the notion that players are dumbed down after Torts "gets to them". Last year, we saw this phenomenon a few times. Even though the CBJ-PIT night was somewhat of an anomaly, it would be foolish to dismiss it complete. Clowe had 2 that night, Brassard has a career high, Rangers career high, and even a Rangers's best of the year performance with his 1G3A. John Moore scored his only as a New York Ranger. Coincidental, partially yes. However, that momentum and offensive surge was created by the pass from Brassard to Richie to start the game off 1-0 and then the CBJ guys + Clowe carried that effort in their 2-0, 3-0, 4-0 goals. Pyatt came in and scored a few goals to start the season off. He drove to the net, got in the way of the goaltender, had shots deflect off of him, had 2 rebound goals. After that, he was relegated to board work and the entire 3rd line was put to sleep.

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Old
09-29-2013, 04:22 PM
  #149
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Somebody please claim Bickel
C'mon Holmgren.... You know you want it.

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09-29-2013, 04:31 PM
  #150
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Really don't get all this nastiness towards Kreider. Can't remember him ever doing anything that would lead me to believe he feels he's more entitled than others. He's an important part of the Rangers future as is Miller, Fast, Lindberg, McIlrath, Allen and maybe Hrivik, Kristo and Yogan. I want them all to do well. Yes they're competing against each other and the veterans and it's okay to like one better than another but if all of them turn out we'll have a hell of a team in the next few years.
I really like Kreider. Don't understand how saying he doesn't deserve to be on the team over Fast and Miller atm after camp is nasty

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