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Old
09-29-2013, 08:55 PM
  #26
ThankYouBasedGod
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Said he would be a bust the minute he was drafted and as a Wings fan who hates Chicago I can't say that I'm not happy that I was right.

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09-29-2013, 08:57 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Tallon drafting (05-09) was absolute disgrace for most part

Bowman drafting has been massive improvement
Yup, I have really liked the Hawks picks over the last few years (for the most part).

(If Hawks fans are wondering why Nuck fans even care at all it's because are media is inept and kept bringing up drafting Hodgson over Beach for well over 2 years after that draft ... simply due to his size)

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Old
09-29-2013, 09:06 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
2005, 2006, and 2007 were all awful with the exception of the two players (Toews and Kane) who fell right into their laps.

2005 produced Niklas Hjalmarsson, with only three others (Jack Skille, Mike Blunden, and Evan Brophey) ever playing an NHL game.

2006 produced only Toews; no one else has played an NHL game.

2007 had five picks in the top 86 and seven picks overall, but outside of Kane, only Billy Sweatt and Akim Aliu ever played an NHL game.
Wow.... That's horrific...

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Old
09-29-2013, 09:14 PM
  #29
Chris Cutter
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Tallon drafting (05-09) was absolute disgrace for most part

Bowman drafting has been massive improvement
I think the scouting staff is more to blame here than the GM. GMs have the final call but they rarely scout the players themselves, they base their opinions on what they're told by their head scout. The only case you can make is that he could have done a better job for them to develop but even then every prospect is different so there's no right formula.

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09-29-2013, 09:29 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
I think the scouting staff is more to blame here than the GM. GMs have the final call but they rarely scout the players themselves, they base their opinions on what they're told by their head scout. The only case you can make is that he could have done a better job for them to develop but even then every prospect is different so there's no right formula.
Current NHL players drafted

Smith 2000 draft = None
Smith 2001 draft = Tuomo Ruutu + Craig Anderson
Smith 2002 draft = Duncan Keith + James Wisniewski + Adam Burish
Smith 2003 draft = Brent Seabrook + Corey Crawford + Dustin Byfuglien + Chris Porter
Pulford 2004 draft = Dave Bolland + Bryan Bickell + Troy Brouwer
Tallon 2005 draft = Niklas Hjalmarsson
Tallon 2006 draft = Jonathan Toews
Tallon 2007 draft = Patrick Kane
Tallon 2008 draft = Ben Smith (Just made Hawks as Regular)
Tallon 2009 draft = Marcus Kruger
Bowman 2010 draft = Joakim Nordstrom (Just made Hawks)
Bowman 2011 draft = Brandon Saad and Andrew Shaw

There is a noticeable drop off once the Tallon regime took over. I don't recall how many of Smith scouts he kept but I do remember that Tallon loved Skille and Beach amongst others that picks were wasted on

Breaking Tallons Hawks drafting down

2/5 on 1st rounders (Kane/Toews success ,, Skille bust , Olsen looking like bust and Beach absolute bust)
0/7 on 2nd round picks (Brandon Pirri only hopeful left)
0/6 on 3rd rounders
1/6 on 4th rounders (Hjalmarsson only success)
1/4 on 5th rounders (Kruger only pick that turned out successful)
0/8 on 6th rounders (Ben Smith only hopeful left)
0/6 on 7th rounders

4 NHL regulars with 42 picks over a 5 year span is pretty dismal

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Old
09-29-2013, 09:47 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Cutter View Post
I think the scouting staff is more to blame here than the GM. GMs have the final call but they rarely scout the players themselves, they base their opinions on what they're told by their head scout. The only case you can make is that he could have done a better job for them to develop but even then every prospect is different so there's no right formula.
I once made the statement that I'd rather have Scott Howson as a GM than Dale Tallon, so I'll add my two cents in here.

In my (never humble) opinion, the GM sets the parameters for what the team will be drafting and with what priority. In Columbus, the scouting staff was basically unchanged from Doug MacLean (pathetically bad at drafting) to Howson (much better, with a lot of late-round picks on the NHL roster). Simple deduction would indicate that the change from one to the next was what the focus would be on.

If Chicago's scouting staff was largely unchanged from Smith and Pulford to Tallon but the actual drafting itself took a huge hit, it would stand to reason that the GM failed in some major way. The GM is the one who has to stand up and say "this is what we're looking for" or "this is what we're going to avoid". Tallon's drafting looked like Chicago's version of what we had with MacLean: a big premium placed on size at the expense of vision and IQ.

Tallon came into a job that had a lot of good young talent on the roster and in the farm system; his only job was to pick up a couple of scorers (which he couldn't have missed on in 2006 and 2007 if he tried) and mail guys their qualifying offers on time and in the specified manner. If he was in charge of drafting before 2005, the Blackhawks would still be in the basement today.

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Old
09-29-2013, 09:53 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Current NHL players drafted

Smith 2000 draft = None
Smith 2001 draft = Tuomo Ruutu + Craig Anderson
Smith 2002 draft = Duncan Keith + James Wisniewski + Adam Burish
Smith 2003 draft = Brent Seabrook + Corey Crawford + Dustin Byfuglien + Chris Porter
Pulford 2004 draft = Dave Bolland + Bryan Bickell + Troy Brouwer
Tallon 2005 draft = Niklas Hjalmarsson
Tallon 2006 draft = Jonathan Toews
Tallon 2007 draft = Patrick Kane
Tallon 2008 draft = Ben Smith (Just made Hawks as Regular)
Tallon 2009 draft = Marcus Kruger
Bowman 2010 draft = Joakim Nordstrom (Just made Hawks)
Bowman 2011 draft = Brandon Saad and Andrew Shaw

There is a noticeable drop off once the Tallon regime took over. I don't recall how many of Smith scouts he kept but I do remember that Tallon loved Skille and Beach amongst others that picks were wasted on

Breaking Tallons Hawks drafting down

2/5 on 1st rounders (Kane/Toews success ,, Skille bust , Olsen looking like bust and Beach absolute bust)
0/7 on 2nd round picks (Brandon Pirri only hopeful left)
0/6 on 3rd rounders
1/6 on 4th rounders (Hjalmarsson only success)
1/4 on 5th rounders (Kruger only pick that turned out successful)
0/8 on 6th rounders (Ben Smith only hopeful left)
0/6 on 7th rounders

4 NHL regulars with 42 picks over a 5 year span is pretty dismal
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I once made the statement that I'd rather have Scott Howson as a GM than Dale Tallon, so I'll add my two cents in here.

In my (never humble) opinion, the GM sets the parameters for what the team will be drafting and with what priority. In Columbus, the scouting staff was basically unchanged from Doug MacLean (pathetically bad at drafting) to Howson (much better, with a lot of late-round picks on the NHL roster). Simple deduction would indicate that the change from one to the next was what the focus would be on.

If Chicago's scouting staff was largely unchanged from Smith and Pulford to Tallon but the actual drafting itself took a huge hit, it would stand to reason that the GM failed in some major way. The GM is the one who has to stand up and say "this is what we're looking for" or "this is what we're going to avoid". Tallon's drafting looked like Chicago's version of what we had with MacLean: a big premium placed on size at the expense of vision and IQ.

Tallon came into a job that had a lot of good young talent on the roster and in the farm system; his only job was to pick up a couple of scorers (which he couldn't have missed on in 2006 and 2007 if he tried) and mail guys their qualifying offers on time and in the specified manner. If he was in charge of drafting before 2005, the Blackhawks would still be in the basement today.
Thanks for the replies, and yeah I can attest to that since I've seen a lot of Blunden in the last two years...

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Old
09-29-2013, 09:59 PM
  #33
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Thanks for the replies, and yeah I can attest to that since I've seen a lot of Blunden in the last two years...
You follow a team buried so deep that The Hockey News can't even find it?

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09-29-2013, 10:02 PM
  #34
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You follow a team buried so deep that The Hockey News can't even find it?
I'm a Canadiens fan and I watched a lot of Bulldogs games during the lockout.

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Old
09-29-2013, 10:05 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/blac...espnapi_public

Such a complete bust

Enjoy him Sweden
He is gonna goon it up in Sweden lol

He could fight though

I remember him in Jr. great fighter just not too bright

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Old
09-29-2013, 10:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by aleshemsky83 View Post
Didn't he take over in 04? So he drafted Bickell and Bolland no?
Yes, Tallon ran the 2004 draft. The poster hates Tallon so he pretends Pulford who was living full time in Palm Beach Florida at the time was GM.
In a previous discussion he was even provided proof (article where Wirtz notes who was in charge) but just ignores it.
Barker, Bolland, Bickell, Dowell and Brouwer were all part of the 2004 Tallon draft. Mind you that doesn't mean he had an excuse to just suck for the 4 years after that but to deny it happen has to raise credibility issues as to the poster.

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Old
09-30-2013, 12:42 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
I once made the statement that I'd rather have Scott Howson as a GM than Dale Tallon, so I'll add my two cents in here.

In my (never humble) opinion, the GM sets the parameters for what the team will be drafting and with what priority. In Columbus, the scouting staff was basically unchanged from Doug MacLean (pathetically bad at drafting) to Howson (much better, with a lot of late-round picks on the NHL roster). Simple deduction would indicate that the change from one to the next was what the focus would be on.

If Chicago's scouting staff was largely unchanged from Smith and Pulford to Tallon but the actual drafting itself took a huge hit, it would stand to reason that the GM failed in some major way. The GM is the one who has to stand up and say "this is what we're looking for" or "this is what we're going to avoid". Tallon's drafting looked like Chicago's version of what we had with MacLean: a big premium placed on size at the expense of vision and IQ.

Tallon came into a job that had a lot of good young talent on the roster and in the farm system; his only job was to pick up a couple of scorers (which he couldn't have missed on in 2006 and 2007 if he tried) and mail guys their qualifying offers on time and in the specified manner. If he was in charge of drafting before 2005, the Blackhawks would still be in the basement today.
He brought in Sharp, Versteeg, Ladd, and Hossa. There's a little more to what he did then you're giving him credit for.

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Old
09-30-2013, 12:58 AM
  #38
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Wow,sure glad we picked Hodgson over that clown.Way to play yourself right off the continent Beach.
So you could trade him for another goon right?

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Old
09-30-2013, 01:20 AM
  #39
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So you could trade him for another goon right?
Hey, if you're not caving in skulls you're not doing your job.

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Old
09-30-2013, 01:24 AM
  #40
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Well there is one bench clearing brawl we don't have to see in the AHL this year.

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09-30-2013, 01:30 AM
  #41
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Is it wrong to think the Blackhawks let him go to Sweden because they don't want him around their prospects in Rockford? How many other players get assigned to teams outside of North America excluding cap reasons or the player at least being from that country?
I can't really imagine any other reason for this except that they don't want him around. Unless I'm wrong, they can't recall him from Sweden, so they're basically saying that he's not going to play with the NHL team this year. Considering he's on a one-year deal for this season, there has to be a reason that they'd do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HavlatMach9 View Post
Isn't playing in Europe more lucrative than playing in the AHL? If Beach figures his NHL career over, than maybe it was a join decision with the Hawks.
I don't think he gets paid anything other than his 110k on the minor league side of his two-way deal.

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09-30-2013, 01:31 AM
  #42
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So you could trade him for another goon right?
Well at least it's one the team isn't sending off to play in Sweden.

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Old
09-30-2013, 02:15 AM
  #43
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Is it wrong to think the Blackhawks let him go to Sweden because they don't want him around their prospects in Rockford? How many other players get assigned to teams outside of North America excluding cap reasons or the player at least being from that country?
Pretty much what happened. The Jets did the same thing a few years ago with Akim Aliu.

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Old
09-30-2013, 03:39 AM
  #44
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Guy had bust written all over him before he was drafted.

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Old
09-30-2013, 04:17 AM
  #45
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Tallon has drafted 2 calder winners last 6years A selke winner And 2 Conn Smythe trophy's winners would like to see any gm that has this track record last 6 years.

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09-30-2013, 04:52 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Tallon has drafted 2 calder winners last 6years A selke winner And 2 Conn Smythe trophy's winners would like to see any gm that has this track record last 6 years.
yep cause those top3 picks are sooooo hard to make.

craig patrick's picks have done nicely in the last 6 years also.

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09-30-2013, 07:49 AM
  #47
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yep cause those top3 picks are sooooo hard to make.

craig patrick's picks have done nicely in the last 6 years also.
I would imagine those top 3 picks are a bit more difficult to make than you make it seem, especially when there are other players available with a high level skill-set as well. It's wayyyy too easy for fans to arm-chair GM and say this player or that player should have been picked.

As for Tallon's drafting history as having a liking towards big players with a lack of skill, some of his picks in CHI resemble that -- but a fair few of his picks in FLA simply don't. Jonathan Huberdeau, Rocco Grimaldi, Nick Bjugstad (Big, but very skilled offensively), Vincent Trocheck, Kyle Rau, Steven Hodges, Mike Matheson, Alexander Delnov, McFarland (Skill but no brains unfortunately). Quinton Howden is skilled on offense to some extent, but I don't think that's the focal point of his game. Alexander Barkov is also a very skill guy -- none of these players fit the mold of some big lumbering player with stone hands. He drafted Erik Gudbranson 3rd overall and on this board EG gets a ton of hate for whatever reason, but his skill is there too, and it's evident in the way pre-season went that he is developing his game. So I am not sure what changed between his drafting days in CHI compared to FLA, but he isn't making stone-hand picks at all these days.

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Old
09-30-2013, 08:56 AM
  #48
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Wow, I can remember a lot of hype surrounding this guy when he was drafted.

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Old
09-30-2013, 11:14 AM
  #49
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I would imagine those top 3 picks are a bit more difficult to make than you make it seem, especially when there are other players available with a high level skill-set as well. It's wayyyy too easy for fans to arm-chair GM and say this player or that player should have been picked.

As for Tallon's drafting history as having a liking towards big players with a lack of skill, some of his picks in CHI resemble that -- but a fair few of his picks in FLA simply don't. Jonathan Huberdeau, Rocco Grimaldi, Nick Bjugstad (Big, but very skilled offensively), Vincent Trocheck, Kyle Rau, Steven Hodges, Mike Matheson, Alexander Delnov, McFarland (Skill but no brains unfortunately). Quinton Howden is skilled on offense to some extent, but I don't think that's the focal point of his game. Alexander Barkov is also a very skill guy -- none of these players fit the mold of some big lumbering player with stone hands. He drafted Erik Gudbranson 3rd overall and on this board EG gets a ton of hate for whatever reason, but his skill is there too, and it's evident in the way pre-season went that he is developing his game. So I am not sure what changed between his drafting days in CHI compared to FLA, but he isn't making stone-hand picks at all these days.
Many people had Turris at #1 over Kane and Jordan Staal ahead of Toews in their draft years. It's not always an easy decision. Prior to the lockout tiny skilled players like Kane, think MSL, were more likely to go undrafted than #1 overall.

I give Tallon 90% of the credit for building the 2010 team and about 50% of the credit for the players that remain on the roster today. He re-introduced a culture of winning and made it a team guys wanted to play for.

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Old
09-30-2013, 11:29 AM
  #50
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Huge fan of Dale Talon as a GM and color analysis with Pat Foley. He stole Sharp, Versteeg, Ladd and Havlat. Toews and Staal was a coin toss but they seen something in Toews. As for Kane, that was a very difficult decision, Kane is small and their aren't too many undersized high picks in the NHL. I remember reading the Tribune and it was either JVR or Kane and I thought JVR would have been the better choice because of his size. As for the RFA contact mixup, Stan was as guilty as Talon.

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