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Old
09-30-2013, 10:29 AM
  #226
Pizza
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The biggest thing that has effected Kreider's development or lack there of....is him.

He's not adapting.

With all his tools and gifts, he just fails to make any consistent impact on the ice.

Who knows if it's a matter of will or a lack of ability or both. I suspect that if Kreider had given the Rangers a reason to keep him they would have. There is nothing more common than untapped potential. It's a huge disappointment if your a Rangers fan, but there you go.

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09-30-2013, 10:32 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the powers that be decided to not buy out Richards. I'd love to know they were/are expecting of him.
I still think Sather being able to delay, for a year, yet another massive financial blunder played a huge role in the decision.

At best its more short-term garbage thinking.

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09-30-2013, 10:33 AM
  #228
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I will give you a good reason. 22 in todays' s NHL is no longer all that young. Without looking, I would guess that there are more than 50 players in the NHL younger than Kreider.


How old were guys like Callahan/Dubinsky when they established themselves as NHL players?

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09-30-2013, 10:34 AM
  #229
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Thats fringe argument type stuff, but the Kreider situation is very disappointing. This team's top LW is out, theres a new coach at the helm, and Ranger management continues to keep a roster spot warm for him over an 18 month period -- one that he can't take.

Whats worse is that the problem night in and night out for him if that he simply doesn't move his feet. He has no motor.
I mean I think we can all agree given the circumstances it is very disappointing.

The issue with the motor as I see it is two fold:

1. A combination of overthinking at times and at times not thinking enough. I know that is contradictory but I think we have seen both. Kreider is a very cerebral, accountable kid. He's extremely book smart. I have no doubt he at times is trying to calculate every cut on the ice he makes. And at NHL speeds that hesitation kills. The reason he is doing this is the second point, the game is not coming naturally to him. When he does fly in on the forecheck with reckless abandon he often picks the wrong guy or the wrong angle of attack.

2. I think there is a good amount of misconception still about the type of player Kreider is. He has NEVER had an elite motor, not even in prep school. Think about that. He has always been a burst/opportunistic player. Which was why I thought Torts' "play like Hagelin" gameplan was unwise. They are nothing alike as players. Hagelin is an elite endurance athlete with a world class motor; it is a big reason why he has been successful.

How to fix it:

1. He needs to get big minutes with a focus on simplifying his game. Get in on the forecheck, with x role. Look for a stretch passin the neutral zone at x time. Do not roam. Do not play east west. That can come in time when he adapts to the pace of play. It took him a while to adapt mentally to the pace of play at BC as well. He is a student of the game and has a strong work ethic. If it is possible for him to adapt he will; we saw signs of him doing that in his second AHL stint last year.

2. Simplifying his game will minimize the faults of his "lack of motor". Though it will take something unpredented for that to improve. It's more about him learning to utilize what he has, rather than trying to be something he is not

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Old
09-30-2013, 10:39 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I mean I think we can all agree given the circumstances it is very disappointing.

The issue with the motor as I see it is two fold:

1. A combination of overthinking at times and at times not thinking enough. I know that is contradictory but I think we have seen both. Kreider is a very cerebral, accountable kid. He's extremely book smart. I have no doubt he at times is trying to calculate every cut on the ice he makes. And at NHL speeds that hesitation kills. The reason he is doing this is the second point, the game is not coming naturally to him. When he does fly in on the forecheck with reckless abandon he often picks the wrong guy or the wrong angle of attack.

2. I think there is a good amount of misconception still about the type of player Kreider is. He has NEVER had an elite motor, not even in prep school. Think about that. He has always been a burst/opportunistic player. Which was why I thought Torts' "play like Hagelin" gameplan was unwise. They are nothing alike as players. Hagelin is an elite endurance athlete with a world class motor; it is a big reason why he has been successful.

How to fix it:

1. He needs to get big minutes with a focus on simplifying his game. Get in on the forecheck, with x role. Look for a stretch passin the neutral zone at x time. Do not roam. Do not play east west. That can come in time when he adapts to the pace of play. It took him a while to adapt mentally to the pace of play at BC as well. He is a student of the game and has a strong work ethic. If it is possible for him to adapt he will; we saw signs of him doing that in his second AHL stint last year.

2. Simplifying his game will minimize the faults of his "lack of motor". Though it will take something unpredented for that to improve. It's more about him learning to utilize what he has, rather than trying to be something he is not
Utilizing what he has, in the top league in the world, will very likely need a much better motor and compete level.

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09-30-2013, 10:43 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Well, you gotta have been pretty darn blind to toss him around as a ROY candidate. Why don't you just listen to me, I told you this was what we were going to get and we got it.

Now I am saying that unless Kreider really lets the hype get to him, we will get a solid player in him. He needs to keep working hard.



You are lining up the posts today for sure lol.
Kreider was named by quite a few as a ROY candidate, but I should have listened to Ola.

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09-30-2013, 10:45 AM
  #232
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keeping Richards this year didn't prevent them from doing anything they wanted to do, so it really had no effect. Richards is better than any other 3c/2c we have until Brass puts together a full year. they're going all in one more yearc with him

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09-30-2013, 10:50 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I am one of them and my notion is even more cemented after the first weeks under AV for sure.

We have a deep roster in terms of assets but we can't execute simple plays that like the Islanders execute on a regular basis. Guys like Fast and Allen come in and looks very poised with the puck in relation to guys like Girardi, McD and several others. That is -- not -- the result of lack of talent on this team but 100% the result of lack of preparation and due diligence by the coaching staff the last 3.5 years. The result of coaching a team, very much built from scratch, in the post-lockout NHL like a team was coached in say 2003.
I'm with you. This preseason, the Rangers were passing the puck and making plays more efficiently than most times they did under Torts. And these were kids/4th liners. People think Torts restricted this team. I think it was more of him not fostering good habits and practicing enough set plays. He was a great motivator and pushed a lot of players to be better, but he never came across as a great tactician at the NHL level. I loved him when he was first here, but got tired of his demeanor just like the players.

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09-30-2013, 10:53 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
keeping Richards this year didn't prevent them from doing anything they wanted to do, so it really had no effect. Richards is better than any other 3c/2c we have until Brass puts together a full year. they're going all in one more yearc with him
If it weren't for the rule that Richards can't be bought out if he's injured people would be claiming this was a great decision. Nothing is set. Not Brassard, not Stepan, not Miller, not Lindberg. It's just classic HFNYR overrating our youngsters and trashing the mercs.

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09-30-2013, 10:57 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by PuckyTheWhale View Post


How old were guys like Callahan/Dubinsky when they established themselves as NHL players?
I believe Callahan was 23 when he became a regular and Dubinsky was 22. I stated that if Kreider isnt a regular before 24, I expect him to not make it as a Ranger. You then express amazement at my statement while citing examples that support my stance.

Try again wirh some other examples that better suit your amazement.

Again, if at this point you are not disappointed by Kreider, it seems odd.

He still has this year to establish himself, but if he doesn't I would bet against him.

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09-30-2013, 10:57 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I still think Sather being able to delay, for a year, yet another massive financial blunder played a huge role in the decision.

At best its more short-term garbage thinking.
Always seem to be the case. And the cause of my biggest concern about this team this season but I'll wait and see before I get into that.

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09-30-2013, 11:03 AM
  #237
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Kreider, to me, looks like a kid who is overwhelmed by the fact that he's expected to take a spot, but simply isn't ready yet. We all lament other team's decisions to rush prospects before they're ready, but the Rangers have been doing the same thing with Kreider since he turned pro. They're in love with his upside, but the clear reality is that he's not there yet.

Give him big minutes in Hartford. Identify a role for him. Then when he's proven himself, bring him back up and put him in that role in the NHL. When the team can't even identify a role for him, how is he supposed to adjust his game to fit a role? I think this "You're big, so get to the front of the net" thing is a pretty lazy assessment. The kid has size, speed, and a laser of a shot that he can get off quickly. Honestly, I'd rather see him patrolling the high slot looking for long-distance deflections and setting up for one-timers, then crashing the net as the secondary option.

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09-30-2013, 11:05 AM
  #238
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Everyone cleared.

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Old
09-30-2013, 11:30 AM
  #239
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Kreider's problem is his personality. He's too reserved, and doesn't seem interested in really going 100%, balls to the wall every shift.

JT Miller on the other hand, you can see it in interviews, his cockyness, his ability to go hard and give 100%. These are all intangibles that you either have or you don't. Hopefully Kreider learns this soon.

I am not ready to give up on him, but its the right decision to send him down. He needs to know he isn't going to be here because of his name or his one decent run in the playoffs a couple years ago.

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09-30-2013, 11:36 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Kreider's problem is his personality. He's too reserved, and doesn't seem interested in really going 100%, balls to the wall every shift.

JT Miller on the other hand, you can see it in interviews, his cockyness, his ability to go hard and give 100%. These are all intangibles that you either have or you don't. Hopefully Kreider learns this soon.

I am not ready to give up on him, but its the right decision to send him down. He needs to know he isn't going to be here because of his name or his one decent run in the playoffs a couple years ago.
Some might laugh at this but I agree with you.

What ever "It" is, Miller has it coming at you in spades. Kreider on the other hand impresses me too often as as less than self assured. It's like he's over thinking everything. Including what and how he says things.

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09-30-2013, 11:37 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
I believe Callahan was 23 when he became a regular and Dubinsky was 22. I stated that if Kreider isnt a regular before 24, I expect him to not make it as a Ranger. You then express amazement at my statement while citing examples that support my stance.

Try again wirh some other examples that better suit your amazement.

Again, if at this point you are not disappointed by Kreider, it seems odd.

He still has this year to establish himself, but if he doesn't I would bet against him.
That's fair.

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09-30-2013, 11:38 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Kreider's problem is his personality. He's too reserved, and doesn't seem interested in really going 100%, balls to the wall every shift.
I don't know that he's "not interested", but he seems to think too much on the ice and that results in him standing around a lot. It's like "the coach says I should be here, so here I am...gonna wait for the puck now". Again, when he was just told " go out and play and have fun" he looked good. Then he gets coached up and he looks tentative and unsure of himself.

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09-30-2013, 11:46 AM
  #243
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#NYR Darroll Powe, Stu Bickel, Brandon Mashinter clear waivers, assigned to AHL

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09-30-2013, 11:51 AM
  #244
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Steve Zipay ‏@stevezipay 2m
#NYR Darroll Powe, Stu Bickel, Brandon Mashinter clear waivers, assigned to AHL
Every time Bickel hits waivers, I feel like he's going to get claimed. Not like he even really warrants a claim, but the NHL still loves guys like him.

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09-30-2013, 11:54 AM
  #245
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Kreider is slow out of the gate. Every year since he's been drafted he starts slow.

His game picks up as the season goes along. Every year that has happened as well.

He is still learning where to go and when is the best time. I agree that the Rangers need to simplify some things for him.

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09-30-2013, 11:56 AM
  #246
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I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the powers that be decided to not buy out Richards. I'd love to know they were/are expecting of him.
There is an interview with Torts on TSN where he addresses that he, Torts, damaged his relationship with Richards. There was something behind the scenes that had to be very serious, you could see it in Torts reaction. My guess is, Torts took his lack of people skills to a whole new level and hurled it out on Richards... and made a story out of it.

Torts did not step back from his statements, very telling ones, regarding how he can be on players, and people. So perhaps all that lead to Richards' mulligan.

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09-30-2013, 11:58 AM
  #247
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Personality has nothing to do with a guy's motor. A guy can be the quietest most reserved guy in the world but yet go balls to the wall every time they're out there. Competition brings out different things in people that you don't normally get from their personality. It really varies by person.

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09-30-2013, 12:07 PM
  #248
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I mean I don't have a problem with the cuts, I just question AV's line constructions as much as I questioned Torts.

Lindberg looked good and then his line mates got the opportunity to play with veterans while he didn't at all.

Kreider was stuck with Richards. Following his clear chemistry with Miller he was put with Boyle and Fast the following game.

Why does Pyatt continue to get the nod? He's just not very good. Give the spot to one of the younger guys - even Hrvik was more effective than him (and I don't mean that in a way where i'm implying that he's not a good player, simply saying that he's another young player that could have gotten a nod).

Asham deserved to get a spot. Many, including myself, had wrote him off. He came in and seized his opportunity.

Fast impressed. Congrats to him. He deserves it.

Miller impressed more. He's gonna be a fixture on this line up in a few years.
This ^ says it all.
Kreider and Miller are unique speed skaters for this team, only JT the only C in the group w/Hagelin + Callahan.

Eventually Kreider will adjust to play well w/most everyone, but atm it is best to pair him with someone playing to his strength --- Miller.

Playing him w/Boyle and Pyatt is stupid.
That Pyatt is even on the team is the height of stupidity.

Boyle is still useful, and if memory serves has a good track record on faceoffs. But once the draw is taken and won, he should be flipping to LW.

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09-30-2013, 12:21 PM
  #249
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I would love to have been a fly on the wall when the powers that be decided to not buy out Richards. I'd love to know they were/are expecting of him.
The organization was split on buying out Richards, so I can imagine it was a lot of bluster on Sather's part about how it was a lockout year, Richards was negotiating the CBA, he was out of shape, etc. I assume those opposed to bringing Richards back tried to show Sather evidence of Richards decline in performance and points since 2010, but it fell on deaf ears.

With our weak LW depth, which is even more apparent now that Kreider is in Hartford again, I'm starting to wonder if some of Richards' money would have been better spent on another stop-gap LW in addition to Pouliot. Let Kreider take as long he needs in the AHL - no rushing him because of injuries/lack of depth or because the organization wants him to be ready even he isn't. At the very least, we'd have more flexibility to add a 7th defenseman who is an improvement over Falk or Bickel.

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Old
09-30-2013, 12:26 PM
  #250
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I don't know that he's "not interested", but he seems to think too much on the ice and that results in him standing around a lot. It's like "the coach says I should be here, so here I am...gonna wait for the puck now". Again, when he was just told " go out and play and have fun" he looked good. Then he gets coached up and he looks tentative and unsure of himself.
The same thing happened at BC. It is like he is trying SO HARD to do exactly what the coach says to get more playing time that he is taking it too literally.

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