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Old
09-28-2013, 08:25 PM
  #26
ALI
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Hanowski and 3rd for Muzzin, Roach and Kozun ??????

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Old
09-28-2013, 08:34 PM
  #27
markisonfire
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Why are the Kings trying to trade Muzzin, again? Waive Schultz and Ellerby if there are issues, Muzzin and Martinez are NHL defensemen.

If the Flames have interest in Kozun, a third or fourth should do it.

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Old
09-29-2013, 12:45 AM
  #28
TheHudlinator
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
Why are the Kings trying to trade Muzzin, again? Waive Schultz and Ellerby if there are issues, Muzzin and Martinez are NHL defensemen.

If the Flames have interest in Kozun, a third or fourth should do it.
Doubt it. We could have had him for free days ago.

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Old
09-29-2013, 06:11 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Thee GM View Post
Completely agree with this. The Kings would have a gaping hole at the 3rd line centre spot without Stoll.
For some ridiculous reason there is a small but vocal minority of Kings fans who simply don't appreciate what Stoll brings on ice. They also have no idea how important he is off ice.

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Old
09-29-2013, 10:29 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dallas Flames Fan View Post
Not for the Flames....

There are plenty of people on waiver ..they dont need to throw away draft picks
Tell that to Joe Colborne.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Basilisk View Post
I believe the intent of the OP was to create cap space. That's something the Kings have very little of these days.
Still doesn't make sense. We don't need to make cap space. I'd rather waive Schultz than do this trade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ALI View Post
Hanowski and 3rd for Muzzin, Roach and Kozun ??????
That's not any better.

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Old
09-29-2013, 12:05 PM
  #31
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by MVW View Post
What would the Kings want for just Muzzin?
Like others have said, we're quite high on Muzzin. With that said, if we had to trade him, we'd like 2nd or a 3rd +.

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09-29-2013, 06:29 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rorschach View Post
Let's trade core players for junk!
Who do you think you are, Sam McMasters

As for the trade proposal by the OT, trading Stoll just to gets some cap space is just bad asset management. Stolls value to the team and the management is pretty high, so freeing up space will have to come from somewhere else. Anyway. I really don't see the Kings doing much to free up space this season, and will probably be right at the limit all year.


Last edited by kingsfan28: 09-29-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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Old
09-29-2013, 06:46 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
Sorry, but Vey or Shore can't replace Stoll right now. This is a bad trade for the Kings.
Exactly. And opening another hole on defense giving up Muzzin makes it worse.

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Old
09-30-2013, 02:14 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottkmlps View Post
Sorry, but Vey or Shore can't replace Stoll right now. This is a bad trade for the Kings.
I see it a bit different.
The reason why a good winger can't move to the 3rd line is Stoll.
He completely shuts down the offense of a whole line.

If Stoll is traded away, it opens up a lot of cap space and more options
to the lineup.
Suddenly it makes sense to play a youngster at the 3rd line center position because you can move down Williams.
That is why i am so sad that Loktionov was traded away.

Clifford/Pearson - Loktionov - Williams

is looking way better than

who ever - Stoll - whoever


our 4th line really rocks and is able to shut down opponents top lines
Clifford - Lewis - Nolan is a lot like the former Red Wings elite 4th line.
So why not create a scoring 3rd line and add some scoring touch
plus generating cap space by just trading Stoll away.

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Old
09-30-2013, 02:24 PM
  #35
kingsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurrilino View Post
I see it a bit different.
The reason why a good winger can't move to the 3rd line is Stoll.
He completely shuts down the offense of a whole line.

If Stoll is traded away, it opens up a lot of cap space and more options
to the lineup.
Suddenly it makes sense to play a youngster at the 3rd line center position because you can move down Williams.
That is why i am so sad that Loktionov was traded away.

Clifford/Pearson - Loktionov - Williams

is looking way better than

who ever - Stoll - whoever


our 4th line really rocks and is able to shut down opponents top lines
Clifford - Lewis - Nolan is a lot like the former Red Wings elite 4th line.
So why not create a scoring 3rd line and add some scoring touch
plus generating cap space by just trading Stoll away.
Glad to see somethings never change, like your Stoll hatred.

Loktionov would be destroyed on our 3rd line, not to mention Loktionov barely produced a better point per game pace last year than Stoll, despite playing with Kovalchuk. Stoll did it largely with guys like Dwight King and Jordan Nolan.

Oh yeah, and don't forget Stoll's gold in the faceoff circle. Did you not see how bad San Jose decimated us in the faceoff dot after we lost Stoll?

I think Stoll's overpaid by at least $500,000 for what he gets, but Stoll's much better for the Kings than Loki ever was or would have been. I was and still do cheer for Loki, but no way I'd swap him in for Stoll.

At least make it sound like you are trying not to hate on Stoll.

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Old
09-30-2013, 04:28 PM
  #36
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Trading Stoll makes no sense. The cap going up will give all the room the kings need next year. If one of the kids forces there way onto a roster spot next off season than I would be ok with trading Stoll. I just don't see it yet. He is too important on the PK for us.

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Old
09-30-2013, 04:47 PM
  #37
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Kings and Flames are bad trading partners ATM, unless its a horizontal move (ie Niemez for something) i dont see the point.

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Old
09-30-2013, 04:54 PM
  #38
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Kings and Flames are bad trading partners ATM, unless its a horizontal move (ie Niemez for something) i dont see the point.
As a fan of both teams I agree.

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Old
09-30-2013, 05:06 PM
  #39
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Let's make cap space by trading vets...so that we can try to get another vet?

Can't trade Stoll. I'd rather get rid of Fraser if the doesn't play up to his salary and move Stoll down a line.

And I don't want to trade Muzzin because we won't get value for him. Let him be the 7th defenseman on the roster who relieves some minutes from Regher and Mitchell each night and play on powerplays.

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Old
09-30-2013, 05:11 PM
  #40
Guido Sarducci
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I dunno. I think the Flames would take this and run.

- a CENTER, and pretty good one too
- a young up and coming Dman who is already better than most of the Flames D
- a Calgary Hitmen legend who would at the very least give the Heat some much needed offence

All for a 2nd and a C level prospect. Actually I can't believe it was a Kings fan who put this out there. Hows about throwing in Martin Jones while you are at it it!

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Old
09-30-2013, 05:42 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Guido Sarducci View Post
I dunno. I think the Flames would take this and run.

- a CENTER, and pretty good one too
- a young up and coming Dman who is already better than most of the Flames D
- a Calgary Hitmen legend who would at the very least give the Heat some much needed offence

All for a 2nd and a C level prospect. Actually I can't believe it was a Kings fan who put this out there. Hows about throwing in Martin Jones while you are at it it!
Last year we traded Iginla, the face of our team for the 28th pick, and 2 meh prospects.

Now you think its a good idea to trade a pick that is likely to be 30-32 for some meh prospects????

No thanks, we will hold onto that pick. (i understand the 2014 draft is weak to 2013)

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Old
09-30-2013, 05:53 PM
  #42
Guido Sarducci
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If the Flames used the 31ish pick to draft a Dman as good as Muzzin I would be very happy with that. Stoll and Kozun would be a bonus, and a pretty good bonus too. Stoll > any center the Flames have

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Old
09-30-2013, 07:03 PM
  #43
etherialone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido Sarducci View Post
I dunno. I think the Flames would take this and run.

- a CENTER, and pretty good one too
- a young up and coming Dman who is already better than most of the Flames D
- a Calgary Hitmen legend who would at the very least give the Heat some much needed offence

All for a 2nd and a C level prospect. Actually I can't believe it was a Kings fan who put this out there. Hows about throwing in Martin Jones while you are at it it!
Niether can most Kings fans.

We would never make this deal. Stoll is one of the top 3 face off players in the league and a very good shut down C. If we asked him to play a more O style game he is good for 40 to 50 points a season or he was prior to our moving him to 3rd line C to play shut down.

Muzzin was right or two away from the best in every category as a rookie D last season including having the best +/- and the Kings struggled allot defencively last season. Muzzin is an exceptional two way young D who can hit too.

We just wouldn't make this proposal under any circumstances.

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Old
09-30-2013, 07:12 PM
  #44
etherialone
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Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
Last year we traded Iginla, the face of our team for the 28th pick, and 2 meh prospects.

Now you think its a good idea to trade a pick that is likely to be 30-32 for some meh prospects????

No thanks, we will hold onto that pick. (i understand the 2014 draft is weak to 2013)
The fact that you see Muzzin as a meh prospect says it all. You have no idea who he is.

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Old
10-01-2013, 12:03 PM
  #45
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Any Kings fan who is a proponent of trading Stoll away (short of massive overpayment which of course wont happen) simply does not understand Sutter style hockey.

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Old
10-01-2013, 12:12 PM
  #46
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CGY should have to add power skating lessons for Hanowksi

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Old
10-01-2013, 12:50 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
The fact that you see Muzzin as a meh prospect says it all. You have no idea who he is.
He isnt an A level prospect.

Calgary has a bunch of B and C level guys, i would rather keep a high second (borderline 1st) and try our luck drafting someone at 30th. No sense in trading away picks and prospects at this stage of the rebuild. Never know who is on the board.

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10-01-2013, 02:13 PM
  #48
etherialone
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Originally Posted by TylerSVT View Post
He isnt an A level prospect.

Calgary has a bunch of B and C level guys, i would rather keep a high second (borderline 1st) and try our luck drafting someone at 30th. No sense in trading away picks and prospects at this stage of the rebuild. Never know who is on the board.
Jake Muzzin last season (rookie year) posted 7g 9a for 16pts with a +/- of +16 good enough for 3rd overall in rookie scoring among D and 1st overall in +/- (he was tied for 8th among ALL dmen in +/- and tied for 49th in scoring). He was second in goals and 5th in assists. He is 6'3" 218lbs and plays a hard hitting two way game. He was used in a PK and PP role last season for the Kings as well as being asked to carry another rookie Dman on our run to the WCF.

His TOI was over 18mins per game until we got one of our veterans back from injury where it dropped to 17:53 with was 4rth among rookie D who played more than 40 games. Compare him to any of the rookie D and his overall numbers are better and he wasn't paired with one of the best Dmen in the game like some of his peers.

He was on pace to reach 14 goals and 18 assists for a total of 32 pts and a +/- in the high 20's to low 30's. Now I know +/- isn't a perfect stat but he was best on the Kings and best among rookies and that is well above allot of "A" list prospects. The only player close to him is Proust and he played in 17 fewer games and in a more protected role.

Muzzin was quite often paired with Keaton Ellerby and still posted his league leading among rookies +/- and his 3 best in scoring.

So I don't know what more a kid can do to establish himself as a top young Dman in the NHL (among his peers). If he isn't an "A" list young developing D prospect then neither are several more highly touted kids who started their careers last season.

My point is that he isn't anywhere near being a "meh" prospect (B or C level). He may not be a sure fire lock at becoming a #1dman in the NHL but he has all the skills to become a very good two way second pairing guy who can play in all 3 zones and on the PK as well as the PP.

Kozun is a B level prospect who has yet to breakthrough with the Kings but then Tyler Toffoli is about as A list as they come and we couldn't find room for him to start this season with the team either.

The proposal doesn't work at all for the Kings because it is a complete undervaluing of what we would be giving up. It would be an overpayment at this point for the Flames 1st round pick in the coming draft but that is a different argument.


Last edited by etherialone: 10-01-2013 at 02:29 PM.
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Old
10-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #49
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Yeah... Also not seeing this for the Kings at all.

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Old
10-01-2013, 03:49 PM
  #50
Rorschach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Jake Muzzin last season (rookie year) posted 7g 9a for 16pts with a +/- of +16 good enough for 3rd overall in rookie scoring among D and 1st overall in +/- (he was tied for 8th among ALL dmen in +/- and tied for 49th in scoring). He was second in goals and 5th in assists. He is 6'3" 218lbs and plays a hard hitting two way game. He was used in a PK and PP role last season for the Kings as well as being asked to carry another rookie Dman on our run to the WCF.

His TOI was over 18mins per game until we got one of our veterans back from injury where it dropped to 17:53 with was 4rth among rookie D who played more than 40 games. Compare him to any of the rookie D and his overall numbers are better and he wasn't paired with one of the best Dmen in the game like some of his peers.

He was on pace to reach 14 goals and 18 assists for a total of 32 pts and a +/- in the high 20's to low 30's. Now I know +/- isn't a perfect stat but he was best on the Kings and best among rookies and that is well above allot of "A" list prospects. The only player close to him is Proust and he played in 17 fewer games and in a more protected role.

Muzzin was quite often paired with Keaton Ellerby and still posted his league leading among rookies +/- and his 3 best in scoring.

So I don't know what more a kid can do to establish himself as a top young Dman in the NHL (among his peers). If he isn't an "A" list young developing D prospect then neither are several more highly touted kids who started their careers last season.

My point is that he isn't anywhere near being a "meh" prospect (B or C level). He may not be a sure fire lock at becoming a #1dman in the NHL but he has all the skills to become a very good two way second pairing guy who can play in all 3 zones and on the PK as well as the PP.

Kozun is a B level prospect who has yet to breakthrough with the Kings but then Tyler Toffoli is about as A list as they come and we couldn't find room for him to start this season with the team either.

The proposal doesn't work at all for the Kings because it is a complete undervaluing of what we would be giving up. It would be an overpayment at this point for the Flames 1st round pick in the coming draft but that is a different argument.
Muzzin needs time to be all he can be for LA. No need to sell low on him.

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