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Where does Montreal finish in the Atlantic?

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Old
09-30-2013, 09:27 AM
  #151
HTTP 400
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Toronto is so overestimated!

They had the worst shot differential last year, giving 6 more shots to the opponent per game and were also dead last in the league for giveaways by a wide margin! You can't win long time with this kind of stats, unless you get some unreal goaltending for a whole season.

They sure can hit, but that's because they never have the puck in their possession. They'll come back to earth this season.

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09-30-2013, 09:38 AM
  #152
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Boston
Montreal
Ottawa
Detroit
Toronto
Tampa
Buffalo
Florida


...1st round of the playoffs is gonna be redemption!!

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09-30-2013, 09:45 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by HTTP 400 Bad Request View Post
Toronto is so overestimated!

They had the worst shot differential last year, giving 6 more shots to the opponent per game and were also dead last in the league for giveaways by a wide margin! You can't win long time with this kind of stats, unless you get some unreal goaltending for a whole season.

They sure can hit, but that's because they never have the puck in their possession. They'll come back to earth this season.
But despite their overachieving SH%, crappy fenwick and lousy D, they are Moar Big - the best way to make the playoffs and go far (despite evidence to the contrary as shown by the best team in the NHL over the last 2 decades).

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09-30-2013, 09:57 AM
  #154
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The Habs are heading into a tough season missing Emelin until Christmas, this could very well have them out of playoff contention by then. Price will have to be playing the best hockey of his career to hold them in the hunt for the playoffs IMO.

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09-30-2013, 10:00 AM
  #155
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Why would the habs have to leap above any of those teams? They finished ahead of them last year.
Two reasons:

1) short season effect. We were in freefall during the last 8-10 games after Emelin went down, Price started playing poorly, and the team looked like it barely gave a damn. If that had continued for another 8-10 games no way we finish first. I worry that other teams figured us out and that Therrien's system has a short shelf life. Emelin is still down to start the year too.

2) Boston went to the friggin final, Ottawa was ravaged by injuries all through the regular season and Detroit damn near took out the Blackhawks. Underestimate those teams at extreme peril. I think they're built to hold up over 82 games better than we are.

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09-30-2013, 10:19 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
But despite their overachieving SH%, crappy fenwick and lousy D, they are Moar Big - the best way to make the playoffs and go far (despite evidence to the contrary as shown by the best team in the NHL over the last 2 decades).
Don't underestimate them. Lupul was hurt for much of the year and Kadri (who didn't get as much ice as he should've) was very good. I think they'll be better this year even if they don't get the Godlike goaltending they did last season. They are an up and coming team.

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09-30-2013, 10:22 AM
  #157
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Even though I picked the Bruins to finish first, I would not be surprised to see them drop in the standings. If you look at the additions and subtractions compared to their roster last year, I think their balance has been compromised more than people realize. Chara is not as dominant and they don't have enough young elite forwards to compensate. However, since forwards tend to overachieve in their system, they should finish near the top. I expect a big year from Iginla.

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09-30-2013, 11:09 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Don't underestimate them. Lupul was hurt for much of the year and Kadri (who didn't get as much ice as he should've) was very good. I think they'll be better this year even if they don't get the Godlike goaltending they did last season. They are an up and coming team.
i dont understand how ppl are still underestimating the Leafs.
Carlyle is a better coach than Therien. He has the whole team playing more like a unit than Therien has the habs. Also, i dont understand ppl saying the leafs overachieved last year and believe the habs didnt.
They manhandled us last year both physically and on the scoreboard.
We have higher end talent on the team for sure, but the leafs, like detroit, ottawa and boston are better coached. We're in a coaches division. Therien will have to up his game here and keep his staff on a short leash.

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09-30-2013, 11:27 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Kingbobert View Post
i dont understand how ppl are still underestimating the Leafs.
Carlyle is a better coach than Therien. He has the whole team playing more like a unit than Therien has the habs. Also, i dont understand ppl saying the leafs overachieved last year and believe the habs didnt.
They manhandled us last year both physically and on the scoreboard.
We have higher end talent on the team for sure, but the leafs, like detroit, ottawa and boston are better coached. We're in a coaches division. Therien will have to up his game here and keep his staff on a short leash.
Carlyle is a very good coach, I was pissed off when I learned that he had being hired by the Leafs, but I don't see the Leafs hype. Not really a talented group, a very very average defense at best. They aren't a physical team even with was is said by the media (full of soft forwards, but they're getting better on this aspect like us), the only part of that team physical is a fourth line of goons that plays 4-5 minutes a game, which IMO is more a testament of their lack of depth than anything. Add to this some questions marks with the goaltending and I'm calling a team that will fight till the end of the season to make the playoffs.

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09-30-2013, 12:15 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
Carlyle is a very good coach, I was pissed off when I learned that he had being hired by the Leafs, but I don't see the Leafs hype. Not really a talented group, a very very average defense at best. They aren't a physical team even with was is said by the media (full of soft forwards, but they're getting better on this aspect like us), the only part of that team physical is a fourth line of goons that plays 4-5 minutes a game, which IMO is more a testament of their lack of depth than anything. Add to this some questions marks with the goaltending and I'm calling a team that will fight till the end of the season to make the playoffs.
The Leafs win by working hard. Lunch box type of mentality. They are hard on the puck and are forced to be defensivly responsible.

Physical Players:
Orr
Mclearen
Bolland
Clarkson
Ashton
JVR
Kadri
Broll
Dion
Fraser
Ranger

They addressed some needs in the defensive forward position and I expect them to be better because of it. Their backcheckers will address the horride possession time, and shots from the perimeter are pretty easy to save especially when you don't have anyone wlling to go to the tough areas of the ice..

Montreal will match up good against Detroit, Tampa, Florida and Buffalo, But, I just don't see the compete level against the more physical teams (those teams force you to play with your heart.. Who wants it more??)

So, with Montreal, I could see them finishing 5th and crossing over into the other pool, because our bottom teir teams are just easier points then the true atlantic division)

How I long for a Leafs Habs series, I just don't think this is the year.

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09-30-2013, 12:32 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorMapleJays View Post
The Leafs win by working hard. Lunch box type of mentality. They are hard on the puck and are forced to be defensivly responsible.

Physical Players:
Orr
Mclearen
Bolland
Clarkson
Ashton
JVR
Kadri
Broll
Dion
Fraser
Ranger

They addressed some needs in the defensive forward position and I expect them to be better because of it. Their backcheckers will address the horride possession time, and shots from the perimeter are pretty easy to save especially when you don't have anyone wlling to go to the tough areas of the ice..

Montreal will match up good against Detroit, Tampa, Florida and Buffalo, But, I just don't see the compete level against the more physical teams (those teams force you to play with your heart.. Who wants it more??)

So, with Montreal, I could see them finishing 5th and crossing over into the other pool, because our bottom teir teams are just easier points then the true atlantic division)

How I long for a Leafs Habs series, I just don't think this is the year.
Grabovski is a better possession player than any of the centers they chose to add/keep.

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09-30-2013, 12:38 PM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorMapleJays View Post
The Leafs win by working hard. Lunch box type of mentality. They are hard on the puck and are forced to be defensivly responsible.

Physical Players:
Orr
Mclearen
Bolland
Clarkson
Ashton
JVR
Kadri
Broll
Dion
Fraser
Ranger

They addressed some needs in the defensive forward position and I expect them to be better because of it. Their backcheckers will address the horride possession time, and shots from the perimeter are pretty easy to save especially when you don't have anyone wlling to go to the tough areas of the ice..

Montreal will match up good against Detroit, Tampa, Florida and Buffalo, But, I just don't see the compete level against the more physical teams (those teams force you to play with your heart.. Who wants it more??)

So, with Montreal, I could see them finishing 5th and crossing over into the other pool, because our bottom teir teams are just easier points then the true atlantic division)

How I long for a Leafs Habs series, I just don't think this is the year.
I don't how you can list JVR, Kadri, Bolland and Ranger as physical players (maybe when they had Komarov and Fraser, but now...). In that case the Habs have :

Murray
Tinordi
Eller
Pacioretty
Prust
Parros
Moen
White
Subban
Bouillon
Bourque
Emelin

And that still wouldn't make the Habs a physical team.


Last edited by Forsead: 09-30-2013 at 01:31 PM.
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Old
09-30-2013, 12:56 PM
  #163
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Maple Leafs fan comes to Habs board and posts in Habs thread about how Maple Leafs are more 'physical'. Haha, thanks Maple Leafs fan.

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09-30-2013, 01:24 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by HTTP 400 Bad Request View Post
Toronto is so overestimated!

They had the worst shot differential last year, giving 6 more shots to the opponent per game and were also dead last in the league for giveaways by a wide margin! You can't win long time with this kind of stats, unless you get some unreal goaltending for a whole season.

They sure can hit, but that's because they never have the puck in their possession. They'll come back to earth this season.
Give aways is a funny thing, some of the better teams in the NHL were top 10 in giveaways last year(LA, Ottawa, Boston). The problem is how much of this can we believe? Leafs had a respectable give away rate on the road, but 'somehow' had 400+ give aways at home. I don't really buy that from the stats guy to be honest, we're talking about 230+ more giveaways at home than on the road, that doesn't even remotely make sense...

The Leafs were also top 10 in takeaways.

Just let the games be played, it's a new season for everyone, the shot differential will not be in the Leafs favour because of Carlyle's coaching system, however the Leafs won't be badly outchanced on QUALITY scoring chances.

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09-30-2013, 01:27 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Forsead View Post
I don't how you can list JVR, Kadri, Bolland and Ranger as physical players (maybe when they had Komarov and Fraser, but now...). In that case the Habs have :

Murray
Tinordi
Eller
Pacioretty
Prust
Parros
Moen
White
Subban
Bouillon
Bourque

And that still wouldn't make the Habs a physical team.
Like it or not, kadri can hit. He's got the troll level of subban. The leafs are much more physical as well. The only advantage i see the habs having over the leafs is the defense core

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09-30-2013, 01:33 PM
  #166
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Like it or not, kadri can hit. He's got the troll level of subban. The leafs are much more physical as well. The only advantage i see the habs having over the leafs is the defense core
Kadri can hit (but doesn't do it that much) and he's kind of a pest, but I fail to see how this discribe a physical player. If he's a physical center then Eller is one. For me physical players are guys like Prust.

When you take every one of their ''physical'' players well you can match them with a Habs player with the same kind of size and physicality, so I fail how they live up to the media hype of a physical team. Last year at least they had Fraser and Komarov.

Ranger isn't more physical than Gorges, JVR is less physical than Pacioretty and Bolland is a good two-way guy in the Plekanec mold (no fight, not overly gritty, last season was his first one with more than a hit per game since a long time), not the Mark Messier one. But no, they play with the Leafs so theses guys are powerforwards or mean defensemens. I'm not saying they are bad, just that their physicality is overrated.


Last edited by Forsead: 09-30-2013 at 01:42 PM.
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09-30-2013, 01:42 PM
  #167
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The person that led the Leafs in hits isn't on the team either this year(Komarov). I think the Leafs have a physical identity for the in your face brand of hockey they play.

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09-30-2013, 01:58 PM
  #168
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Leafs have a physical identity in that their gameplan is to deliver late hits and interfere with other players every shift. Oh and they have two scrubs named Mclaren and Orr on their 4th line.

so scurred.

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09-30-2013, 02:31 PM
  #169
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Leafs have a physical identity in that their gameplan is to deliver late hits and interfere with other players every shift. Oh and they have two scrubs named Mclaren and Orr on their 4th line.
Well that's just it right... cheap shots between the whistle. Right out of Boston's playbook. Whenever we play those teams I'm always worried that we're going to lose somebody like Pacman on some cheapshot.
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so scurred.
They don't play good D and their goalie is a questionable but they can score. I think they'll be better than folks here are giving them credit for. Kadri will be better and they are young with lots of room to improve.

That being said, I deeply hope that they just barely miss the playoffs. A season ending tie for 8th in the standings with them losing out because of goal differential or something like that would be deeply satisfying.

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09-30-2013, 03:27 PM
  #170
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Leafs have a physical identity in that their gameplan is to deliver late hits and interfere with other players every shift. Oh and they have two scrubs named Mclaren and Orr on their 4th line.

so scurred.
Its nice to see my leafs defend in their own zone with a purpose, so many times under rotten ronny I would cringe everytime the puck came into the leafs zone (much like game 7) but I don't get anxiety attacks anymore. Its kind of nice to see to be honest.

I love watching the energy that those two games have against each other, but lets be honest.. it always feels better to smack around those Sens!! poor guys havnt had a home game vs Toronto/montreal... ever!!

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09-30-2013, 04:49 PM
  #171
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I'll give you Claude, Babcock and Walrus, but who else is better than Therrien?
Carlyle?

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09-30-2013, 05:15 PM
  #172
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Two reasons:

1) short season effect. We were in freefall during the last 8-10 games after Emelin went down, Price started playing poorly, and the team looked like it barely gave a damn. If that had continued for another 8-10 games no way we finish first. I worry that other teams figured us out and that Therrien's system has a short shelf life. Emelin is still down to start the year too.

2) Boston went to the friggin final, Ottawa was ravaged by injuries all through the regular season and Detroit damn near took out the Blackhawks. Underestimate those teams at extreme peril. I think they're built to hold up over 82 games better than we are.
This is exactly why your point isn't valid. Boston struggled worse than the Habs near the end of the season. They looked absolutely awful and could have taken the division from the Habs, but they struggled as well. Yet this team went to the Stanley Cup finals.

And Ottawa had injuries all season, sure, but it's not like they were outstanding during the season. They squeaked out tight wins almost every game and just barely made it into the playoffs. They turned out to be more healthy than the Habs in the playoffs, too.

You're basically using the two main reasons the Habs faltered (late-season struggles and serious injuries) as advantages for Boston and Ottawa, but as disadvantages for the Habs. How does that make sense?

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09-30-2013, 06:26 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorMapleJays View Post
The Leafs win by working hard. Lunch box type of mentality. They are hard on the puck and are forced to be defensivly responsible.

Physical Players:
Orr
Mclearen
Bolland
Clarkson
Ashton
JVR
Kadri
Broll
Dion
Fraser
Ranger

They addressed some needs in the defensive forward position and I expect them to be better because of it. Their backcheckers will address the horride possession time, and shots from the perimeter are pretty easy to save especially when you don't have anyone wlling to go to the tough areas of the ice..

Montreal will match up good against Detroit, Tampa, Florida and Buffalo, But, I just don't see the compete level against the more physical teams (those teams force you to play with your heart.. Who wants it more??)
There are a few problems with your assessment: Kadri a physical player? Ha! He's good at being a cheapshot artist, running people into the boards from behind when they're looking the other way and then turtling behind Fraser or Orr/McLaren. Then you include Broll (who was sent down), Ranger (4 years absent from the NHL) and even JVR (more of a skilled player).

The Habs have players willing to go to the tough areas like Gionta, Gallagher and Galchenyuk. Sure, Gionta and Gallagher aren't the biggest, but it's false to assume the Habs are purely a perimeter team.

And you don't see the compete level against more physical teams? The Habs won the series against the Bruins 3-1, and despite a couple of gong shows against the Leafs (mostly because of Carlyle's goon tactics with Orr/McLaren when the score was out of reach), the series was pretty even. As for the matter of having more heart, the Habs when faced with goons don't back down even if they're outmatched and unfairly initiated: how is that not having heart? Kessel's response is to start hacking away with his stick, which you never see the Habs do, and then you have Kadri proclaiming that Lupul had to hold him back.

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09-30-2013, 06:39 PM
  #174
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As someone posted earlier, Montreal's defense is an area of particular concern. My trust in Diaz is quite low at this point and I don't think Markov can carry him at this point in his career. The habs need to hold the ship until emelin is back, so Diaz can slip into the 3rd Pair.

I am excited about the PP though. I feel this group can do a lot of damage as long as Markov and subban are running the show. Briere theoretically should add to the PP threat. You can use him him down low near the side of the net, or right along the half boards. Lots of weapons are available on the pp. The 2nd unit pp takes a drop though, because it usually means one of gorges or bouillon at the point.

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09-30-2013, 06:41 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by jedimyrmidon View Post
There are a few problems with your assessment: Kadri a physical player? Ha! He's good at being a cheapshot artist, running people into the boards from behind when they're looking the other way and then turtling behind Fraser or Orr/McLaren. Then you include Broll (who was sent down), Ranger (4 years absent from the NHL) and even JVR (more of a skilled player).

The Habs have players willing to go to the tough areas like Gionta, Gallagher and Galchenyuk. Sure, Gionta and Gallagher aren't the biggest, but it's false to assume the Habs are purely a perimeter team.

And you don't see the compete level against more physical teams? The Habs won the series against the Bruins 3-1, and despite a couple of gong shows against the Leafs (mostly because of Carlyle's goon tactics with Orr/McLaren when the score was out of reach), the series was pretty even. As for the matter of having more heart, the Habs when faced with goons don't back down even if they're outmatched and unfairly initiated: how is that not having heart? Kessel's response is to start hacking away with his stick, which you never see the Habs do, and then you have Kadri proclaiming that Lupul had to hold him back.
Kadri is a physical player, denying that would simply be asinine.

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