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Old
09-30-2013, 11:05 AM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I wish Lavi would pay attention to team defense like Tortorella does...
Torts is good for a few years but he's a pretty stubborn taskmaster too. I wouldn't want G to be under Torts...

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Old
09-30-2013, 11:24 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I wish Lavi would pay attention to team defense like Tortorella does...
That too!

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09-30-2013, 12:31 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Le Oranje View Post
I don't think the Flyers think they are the Backstreet Boys.

I think they do, they sure were as bad as them last year.

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09-30-2013, 12:36 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I'm well aware of that, but it's dumb to say those teams were more popular for their fighting than they were for their two Stanley Cups.

They were to my and my friends...the cups were a bonus, best Hockey I ever watched.

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09-30-2013, 01:22 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by FlyerTime View Post
They were to my and my friends...the cups were a bonus, best Hockey I ever watched.
agreed..

the BSB were the reason i started following the Flyers and have been a lifetime fan of OnB ever since..

there was just something about the way they played that made me fall in love with the team.

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09-30-2013, 07:54 PM
  #81
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Yeah, the fact that the only GMs we've ever had (except the 4 years of the Farwell era) in the last 30 years were members of the Bullies shows we've moved on.

Flyers hockey is losing hockey. They should get rid of everyone that has ever worn orange and black in the front office, and build from the outside.

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Old
09-30-2013, 08:12 PM
  #82
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in 2004 the flyers have fedoruk and brashear
1987 brown and berube
1978 holmgren and wilson was great player
1974 only schultz

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Old
09-30-2013, 09:09 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by flyersfan28 View Post
in 2004 the flyers have fedoruk and brashear
1987 brown and berube
1978 holmgren and wilson was great player
1974 only schultz
Can someone decipher what this means?

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Old
09-30-2013, 09:38 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
Can someone decipher what this means?
Rinaldo + Rosehill?

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Old
09-30-2013, 09:46 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Yeah, the fact that the only GMs we've ever had (except the 4 years of the Farwell era) in the last 30 years were members of the Bullies shows we've moved on.

Flyers hockey is losing hockey. They should get rid of everyone that has ever worn orange and black in the front office, and build from the outside.
Losing hockey doesn't get you to the playoffs 22 times and the finals 4 times out of the last 30 years.

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09-30-2013, 09:48 PM
  #86
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Flyers have been entertaining, for sure. And a great team. But if they want a Cup, Flyers hockey doesn't work.

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09-30-2013, 10:48 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
Losing hockey doesn't get you to the playoffs 22 times and the finals 4 times out of the last 30 years.
and in those 30 years, how many times did we win the cup?


if you don't win the cup, the season is a failure IMO

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Old
09-30-2013, 10:48 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan28 View Post
in 2004 the flyers have fedoruk and brashear
1987 brown and berube
1978 holmgren and wilson was great player
1974 only schultz
To point out a fallacy in your (apparent) point, the '74 Flyers had Schultz, Dupont, Kelly as the principals, and a host of others who were ready and willing to drop the gloves.

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Old
09-30-2013, 11:24 PM
  #89
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I am totally torn this year. They could have a great year, make the playoffs and win a series or two, or they could bomb and miss the playoffs again. I want to be more optimistic, but the fact that Lavy still hasn't instituted a good system makes me very wary. You have to move the puck up and down the ice as a unit, and he just doesn't seem to want to do that. In some ways, I'd welcome Terry Murray back as coach, at least they'd check.

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09-30-2013, 11:36 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
and in those 30 years, how many times did we win the cup?


if you don't win the cup, the season is a failure IMO
Well then every team is a losing team by that standard because you're going to fail to win it a whole hell of a lot more than you will win.

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Old
09-30-2013, 11:39 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyersfan018 View Post
Can someone decipher what this means?
I'm curious lol.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
Losing hockey doesn't get you to the playoffs 22 times and the finals 4 times out of the last 30 years.
Making the playoffs alone isn't a major accomplishment, especially in this league.

How long has it been since we've won a Cup? If anything, considering how long it's been and how many "competitive" teams we've had that have made the playoffs in that span, it's kind of embarrassing that we haven't gotten it done once.

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Old
09-30-2013, 11:41 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
Well then every team is a losing team by that standard because you're going to fail to win it a whole hell of a lot more than you will win.
It's been 37 seasons since winning a Cup. Only five teams have gone longer then that without a Cup.

Just going by pure random luck without taking into regard team strength or anything we should have won one by now.

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09-30-2013, 11:46 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
To point out a fallacy in your (apparent) point, the '74 Flyers had Schultz, Dupont, Kelly as the principals, and a host of others who were ready and willing to drop the gloves.
I don't really know where he was going with his post but I wouldn't really say Homer, Dupont, Kelly, or Wilson were "goons" sure they liked to fight a lot but some of them had really productive seasons offensively, granted scoring was up during their days but point remains these guys had some talent. Hell Schultz even had a 20 goal season & a few 30+ point seasons in his career.

Brown, Fedoruk, Brashear, & Berube though definitely would fit under the term "goon", no arguments there.

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Old
09-30-2013, 11:50 PM
  #94
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By the looks of this thread it seems Snider isn't the only one "at another level" with their optimism this year........it's a bit baffling. Flyers should be a bit more competitive this year by virtue of the roster but how many times have people based their optimism solely on paper and not the actual product on the ice? I don't have much faith in Lavi coaching a consistent team....he really hasn't since his tenure here and I haven't seen anything new from him this preseason. Even last year with his new "wrinkle" in the defense it became an unmitigated disaster with Hartnell basically going on record after the season saying nobody knew what the hell they were doing..were they supposed to attack or play back?

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09-30-2013, 11:55 PM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
Yeah, the fact that the only GMs we've ever had (except the 4 years of the Farwell era) in the last 30 years were members of the Bullies shows we've moved on.

Flyers hockey is losing hockey. They should get rid of everyone that has ever worn orange and black in the front office, and build from the outside.
You might want to rethink that...

Playoff Appearance Percentage / Finals Appearance Percentage

01. Montreal Canadiens - 84% / 33%
02. Philadelphia Flyers - 80% / 18%
03. St Louis Blues - 80% / 7%
04. Boston Bruins - 77% / 21%
05. San Jose Sharks - 75% / 0%
06. Toronto Maple Leafs - 72% / 22%
07. Detroit Red Wings - 71% / 28%
08. New Jersey Devils - 70% / 17%
09. Colorado Avalanche - 70% / 12%
10. Ottawa Senators - 70% / 5%
11. Buffalo Sabres - 69% / 5%
12. Chicago Blackhawks - 66% / 14%
13. New York Rangers - 64% / 12%
14. Dallas Stars - 63% / 10%
15. Washington Capitals - 63% / 3%
16. Calgary Flames - 62% / 9%
17. Pittsburgh Penguins - 62% / 9%
18. Vancouver Canucks - 62% / 7%
19. Edmonton Oilers - 61% / 21%
20. Los Angeles Kings - 60% / 4%
21. New York Islanders - 55% / 12%
22. Nashville Predators - 50% / 0%
23. Phoenix Coyotes - 50% / 0%
24. Anaheim Ducks - 47% / 10%
25. Carolina Hurricanes - 33% / 13%
26. Minnesota Wild - 33% / 0%
27. Tampa Bay Lightning - 30% / 5%
28. Florida Panthers - 21% / 5%
29. Columbus Blue Jackets - 8% / 0%
30. Winnipeg Jets - 0% / 0%

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Old
10-01-2013, 12:10 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
You might want to rethink that...

Playoff Appearance Percentage / Finals Appearance Percentage

01. Montreal Canadiens - 84% / 33%
02. Philadelphia Flyers - 80% / 18%
03. St Louis Blues - 80% / 7%
04. Boston Bruins - 77% / 21%
05. San Jose Sharks - 75% / 0%
06. Toronto Maple Leafs - 72% / 22%
07. Detroit Red Wings - 71% / 28%
08. New Jersey Devils - 70% / 17%
09. Colorado Avalanche - 70% / 12%
10. Ottawa Senators - 70% / 5%
11. Buffalo Sabres - 69% / 5%
12. Chicago Blackhawks - 66% / 14%
13. New York Rangers - 64% / 12%
14. Dallas Stars - 63% / 10%
15. Washington Capitals - 63% / 3%
16. Calgary Flames - 62% / 9%
17. Pittsburgh Penguins - 62% / 9%
18. Vancouver Canucks - 62% / 7%
19. Edmonton Oilers - 61% / 21%
20. Los Angeles Kings - 60% / 4%
21. New York Islanders - 55% / 12%
22. Nashville Predators - 50% / 0%
23. Phoenix Coyotes - 50% / 0%
24. Anaheim Ducks - 47% / 10%
25. Carolina Hurricanes - 33% / 13%
26. Minnesota Wild - 33% / 0%
27. Tampa Bay Lightning - 30% / 5%
28. Florida Panthers - 21% / 5%
29. Columbus Blue Jackets - 8% / 0%
30. Winnipeg Jets - 0% / 0%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
It's been 37 seasons since winning a Cup. Only five teams have gone longer then that without a Cup.

Just going by pure random luck without taking into regard team strength or anything we should have won one by now.
Also, going by Finals appearance rates as well as Cup wins (Cup wins since the last time the Flyers won any) these teams are all ahead of the Flyers by virtue of at least one of those two:

Canadians
Bruins
Leafs
Red Wings
Devils
Avalanche
Chicago
Dallas
Rangers
Kings
Penguins
Oilers
Islanders
Ducks
Hurricanes
Lightning

So 16 teams, if I counted that right, have had better success winning the Cup then the Flyers in a league where winning the Cup is the ultimate goal (including the entirety of our former Atlantic division funnily enough) and, historically, making the playoffs alone isn't all that impressive of a feat in this league

Once you factor in that 16 teams have either had better luck getting to the Finals and/or won the Cup more then the Flyers (since the Flyers last win), most of the other 13 teams haven't been around that long (Phoenix, Florida, Columbus, current Winnipeg incarnation, Minnesota for example are all relatively new teams), and the fact that they have the 6th longest Cup drought of 30 teams at 37 seasons and counting it's rather sad all-in-all.

To say Flyers hockey isn't winning hockey is something we can argue and nitpick about, but it most certainly isn't Cup winning hockey apparently.

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Old
10-01-2013, 12:31 AM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
To say Flyers hockey isn't winning hockey is something we can argue and nitpick about, but it most certainly isn't Cup winning hockey apparently.
The odds of winning the Stanley Cup in the modern era of hockey is just over 3%.

Which means...winning 3 Cups in every hundred years. We're at 2 in 45 years putting us nearly halfway beyond 4%.

Since you're expected to win 3 Cups every hundred years, you're expected to go to 6 Finals in that same time frame, so just under 7%. We've gone to 8 in that time frame putting us just under 18%.

We're pretty much kicking the odds in that section honestly, and even if we haven't been lucky in the Finals, we're still above the nod on odds of winning it all. That's proof enough we're a "Cup Winning Hockey" team. We've won it all 4% of the time, we've been runner-up 18% of the time (6th), and we've made the playoffs 80% of the time (2nd).

People ***** around here just to ***** for some reason. Stop complaining. It could be far worse, and even though I want to see us win a Cup as much as anyone, I'm not going to pretend like our legacy isn't impressive as **** despite the lack of a trophy in the last three decades.

Luck plays a large factor in winning it all. The most you can ask for is a team that gives you a shot every year. The rest is up to the roll of the dice.

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10-01-2013, 12:49 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by CS View Post
The odds of winning the Stanley Cup in the modern era of hockey is just over 3%.

Which means...winning 3 Cups in every hundred years. We're at 2 in 45 years putting us nearly halfway beyond 4%.

Since you're expected to win 3 Cups every hundred years, you're expected to go to 6 Finals in that same time frame, so just under 7%. We've gone to 8 in that time frame putting us just under 18%.
You're assuming every team has the same chance of pulling out a Cup win which just isn't true. It completely ignores the reality of things. The reality being that teams aren't created equal.

Don't know why you're including the two wins in your analysis either aside from it making your argument look better. This is about winning a Cup since that time (which they haven't done).

Fact of the matter is that the Flyers never have financial difficulties which already puts them on top of some teams. They've been around longer then 66 percent of the NHL and of the 33 percent or so that have been around as long or longer then the Flyers only St. Louis and Toronto have done as poor a job of actually winning Cups as the Flyers.

EDIT: Also, even if those odds were accurate, which they aren't to be honest, you're stretching that across a time period of 37 seasons. The vast majority of the current teams in the league haven't even been around that long unlike the Flyers. This is the most extreme example, but the Blue Jackets have been around for about a third of that time period.

Quote:
We're pretty much kicking the odds in that section honestly, and even if we haven't been lucky in the Finals, we're still above the nod on odds of winning it all. That's proof enough we're a "Cup Winning Hockey" team.
Our team isn't promising right now and they haven't won a Cup in 37 seasons which is the 6th longest drought in the NHL. I fail to see how any of that indicates Cup winning hockey because Cup winning hockey, by definition, demands Cup wins.

Quote:
People ***** around here just to ***** for some reason. Stop complaining. It could be far worse, and even though I want to see us win a Cup as much as anyone, I'm not going to pretend like our legacy isn't impressive as **** despite the lack of a trophy in the last three decades.
Not really. People legitimately criticize because there's stuff to not be happy about. If you don't like legitimate criticism then don't respond or use your block list.

It really couldn't be that much worse if we're talking about winning the Cup. Only way it could be worse, realistically, is if the Flyers didn't win the Cup twice in a row 40 years ago almost. Which, since it was 40 years ago, doesn't have a whole hell lot of an impact on the discussion of today.

Could the team be worse and our history be worse? Certainly. Last I checked though the goal wasn't to make the playoffs every year (in a league where literally more then half the teams make it) or to not be the worst looking team in the league. It's to win the Cup and that's something the Flyers haven't done a good job of since '75.

Most of the teams that have been around as long as the Flyers and a lot that haven't even been around as long have won the Cup since then and most of the rest that haven't haven't been around anywhere near as long. Like I said, there's very few teams that have done as poorly as the Flyers as far as winning the Cup goes since their last win.

For the record, it's a lot closer to four decades then three which is a big difference. Also, like I've said before, purely making the playoffs isn't a big accomplishment in a league like the NHL where historically the league has been relatively small and/or allow for a majority of the teams to make the playoffs. Especially for a team that has financial and fan support like the Flyers.

Putting out a winning team year-in and year-out is nice and fun to watch and impressive from the standpoint of competitiveness but that's not the goal. A Cup win is.

Quote:
Luck plays a large factor in winning it all. The most you can ask for is a team that gives you a shot every year. The rest is up to the roll of the die.
Assuming luck plays a large role then couldn't someone, hypothetically, write off any given season as pure luck? Or the Flyers two Cup wins as pure luck?

Aside from that, you don't see how much it belittles the accomplishment of winning it all by writing it all off as "luck"?

In addition, 37 seasons is a whole hell of a lot of bad luck.


Last edited by Garbage Goal: 10-01-2013 at 01:00 AM.
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Old
10-01-2013, 01:01 AM
  #99
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You do realize that you posted this nonsense right?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Also, going by Finals appearance rates as well as Cup wins (Cup wins since the last time the Flyers won any) these teams are all ahead of the Flyers by virtue of at least one of those two:

Canadians (most of their history and lore is pre-modern era but at least they've won a few)
Bruins (not much modern era success but they have 1 recent Cup)
Leafs (hasn't even really won a Cup in the modern era so why are they here?)
Red Wings (a number of Cups with regular playoff appearances)
Devils (a number of Cups with regular playoff appearances)
Avalanche (a couple Cups with regular playoff appearances)
Chicago (just won for the 1st time in forever and hasn't done much in the modern era)
Dallas (1 Cup - not much else of anything)
Rangers (won in the early 90's but really hasn't done much at all in the modern era)
Kings (1 Cup - not much else of anything)
Penguins (3 Cups but they suck outside of that really)
Oilers (had a dynasty but have pretty much sucked since)
Islanders (had a dynasty but have pretty much sucked since)
Ducks (1 Cup - not much else of anything)
Hurricanes (1 Cup - not much else of anything)
Lightning (1 Cup - not much else of anything)
I don't see the appeal of being in the shoes of most of the organizations mentioned.

Would you like to move to Carolina and become a Hurricanes fan? They're ahead of us by your list as well, though I'm not really sure why you included Toronto, since they fit none of the criteria mentioned.

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10-01-2013, 01:12 AM
  #100
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You do realize that you posted this nonsense right?



I don't see the appeal of being in the shoes of most of the organizations mentioned.

Would you like to move to Carolina and become a Hurricanes fan? They're ahead of us by your list as well, though I'm not really sure why you included Toronto, since they fit none of the criteria mentioned.
I like how you ignored my entire post then instead went straight to being combative.

Apparently you don't read well. You posted a list of teams and their playoff appearance rates to somehow assert that the Flyers play winning hockey. I took that list you posted and posted a list of teams that have either higher SCF appearance rates or Cup wins since the Flyers last one. According to the list I quoted Toronto has a higher SCF appearance rate.

I never said it would be better to be in the shoes of all those teams. You simply assumed that and put the words in my mouth.

So to summarize, you don't read well apparently, you started being combative, and I'm done with you until you actually start replying to my direct replies to you.

EDIT: huh apparently you posted the list. Makes it even more confusing then how you could put words in my mouth in that case.

Double edit: also confusing how you waited till I replied again to reply to my first reply.


Last edited by Garbage Goal: 10-01-2013 at 01:27 AM.
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