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European Champions Hockey League - starting in 2014 (MOD WARNING POST 361)

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Old
09-24-2013, 10:02 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Players under 18 are not allowed to transfer to foreign countries.
How so? I know plenty of swedish players from ages 14 and up who have joined prominent club academies all across europe. If there is such a rule it's circumvented and not practically in effect.

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09-24-2013, 10:56 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Slimmy View Post
How so? I know plenty of swedish players from ages 14 and up who have joined prominent club academies all across europe. If there is such a rule it's circumvented and not practically in effect.
Like I said, the clubs use their youth academies to circumvent the rule.

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09-24-2013, 10:58 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Xokkeu View Post
Players under 18 are not allowed to transfer to foreign countries.
If that was in use in hockey, this Hungarian kid would still be playing in Hungary and possibly have quit hockey. It would not serve the players in such a small/different sport as hockey.

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09-24-2013, 11:09 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Like I said, the clubs use their youth academies to circumvent the rule.
Thanks for clarifying.

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09-24-2013, 11:32 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Slimmy View Post
How is the IIHF going to impose these rules on leagues if they refuse? NHL won't submit to IIHF so what do you suggest they do?

And what U18 are we talking about? International competition with national teams or simply youth hockey leagues? I am aware of the rules which stipulates what a club can expect in development compensation in the case of football and future transfers between clubs. But players who are not under contract can go wherever they please. Am I wrong?
Name me a singel player younger than 18 and signed by NHL club.

@Jussi
Your interpretation of rules is not correct. I recommend you to make a research. Thx

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09-24-2013, 12:10 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Name me a singel player younger than 18 and signed by NHL club.

@Jussi
Your interpretation of rules is not correct. I recommend you to make a research. Thx
Come again? How about you answer my previous questions instead of making nonsensical comments?

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09-24-2013, 12:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Slimmy View Post
Come again? How about you answer my previous questions instead of making nonsensical comments?
I'm thinking vorky is deliberately going for the Chewbacca defense tactic. Which means I'm going for it as well.

KHL hates babies.

IIHF is not going to stop U-18 players from moving to a different country because it doesn't benefit the players if they're development options are limited. Development routes are far more different and varied from football. Which once again has nothing to do with the thread topic by the way. So could some mod please post the complimentary "Stay on topic" post?

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09-24-2013, 01:04 PM
  #58
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Come again? How about you answer my previous questions instead of making nonsensical comments?
I explaind everything. Maybe you missed something

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Old
09-24-2013, 03:08 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Slimmy View Post
How so? I know plenty of swedish players from ages 14 and up who have joined prominent club academies all across europe. If there is such a rule it's circumvented and not practically in effect.
The EU effectively is one country due to its labor rules. There are some ways around it, usually involving parents moving to the new country and getting jobs.

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09-25-2013, 03:39 AM
  #60
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The EU effectively is one country due to its labor rules. There are some ways around it, usually involving parents moving to the new country and getting jobs.
That explains it. A simmilar rule applied to hockey would then, in reality, only be in effect in regards to Russia and North America. This would, no doubt, benefit euro hockey. Still, just a pipe dream..

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09-25-2013, 02:06 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Slimmy View Post
That explains it. A simmilar rule applied to hockey would then, in reality, only be in effect in regards to Russia and North America. This would, no doubt, benefit euro hockey. Still, just a pipe dream..
Perhaps the only country that would be left out might be Ukraine, although the majority of those players have some access to a Russian passport, and any other developing nations around the world like Japan or Australia.

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10-01-2013, 06:08 AM
  #62
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here what i wrote
http://sportfm.ru/mediainfo/audio/detail/319

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Old
10-04-2013, 11:33 AM
  #63
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I just wonder why any European countries bother showing up for the World Cup when there's no money in it for them unless you're NHLPA and the NHL gets to pick the teams? Do the defederations literally get nothing for the tourney to help with their development costs? It's the one hockey tourney I never watched nor took seriously. anyway so...

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10-04-2013, 12:22 PM
  #64
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I just wonder why any European countries bother showing up for the World Cup when there's no money in it for them unless you're NHLPA and the NHL gets to pick the teams? Do the defederations literally get nothing for the tourney to help with their development costs? It's the one hockey tourney I never watched nor took seriously. anyway so...
I find it hard to believe that the NHL and IIHF would sign an agreement for the tournament if the IIHF was going to zero dollars.

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10-04-2013, 12:38 PM
  #65
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Move it to the beginning of June, and that would solve all conflicts with the KHL.

I want it annually - just fun to watch!

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10-11-2013, 02:05 PM
  #66
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There were some comments relating to ECC and TPS in today's Turun Sanomat (paper version). This snippet was posted at jatkoaika.com TPS section:

Quote:
"– Selvä on, että joukkueeseen pitää panostaa entistä enemmän, rungon pitää olla leveämpi. Muuten ei pysty pelaamaan suunnitellusti niin isoa ottelumäärää.

–Jos haluaa menestyä ECC:ssä, ykkös- ja kakkoskentän pitää olla vahvempia ja maalissa pitää seistä tekijämies. Ja totta kai meidän, niin kuin jokaisen organisaation, tavoite on menestyä.

– ECC pelataan liigan yhteydessä, eikä sen pelimäärä tule olemaan lähelläkään liigan pelimäärää. On silti selvää, että pelimäärä tulee kokonaisuudessaan nousemaan jonkin verran nykyisestä."
Translation for the last paragraph:

"ECC is played alongside the league but the number of games won't be anywhere near the the amount of our league. It's still clear the number of games is going to rise."

The other two paragraphs mentioned how much TPS are going to have to reinforce and widen their squad next summer in order to handle the more grueling schedule.

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Old
10-14-2013, 01:01 PM
  #67
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Timo Everi confirms Champion's league will start next year: http://yle.fi/urheilu/jaakiekon_mest...yksyna/6881684

Set to start September 2014, details will be revealed in December. Clubs from Finland, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Czech Republic. Negotiations on going with KHL(Harkimo confirms Jokerit are interested in playing in it). According to YLE, more details coming later this week.

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Old
10-15-2013, 06:12 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
Timo Everi confirms Champion's league will start next year: http://yle.fi/urheilu/jaakiekon_mest...yksyna/6881684

Set to start September 2014, details will be revealed in December. Clubs from Finland, Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, Austria and Czech Republic. Negotiations on going with KHL(Harkimo confirms Jokerit are interested in playing in it). According to YLE, more details coming later this week.
There's been a lot of coverage of the ECC in swedish news the last couple of days. All of the swedish SHL teams are share holders in the ECC. From what I could gather, all of the teams who are currently in the ET playoffs are automatically qualified for next years ECC, with one exception; Djurgården. Djurgården playing in the second tier swedish league. Not sure if Eisbären is included aswell, seeing as the are the hosting club of ET.

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10-15-2013, 07:28 AM
  #69
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There's been a lot of coverage of the ECC in swedish news the last couple of days. All of the swedish SHL teams are share holders in the ECC. From what I could gather, all of the teams who are currently in the ET playoffs are automatically qualified for next years ECC, with one exception; Djurgården. Djurgården playing in the second tier swedish league. Not sure if Eisbären is included aswell, seeing as the are the hosting club of ET.
Also the official name of the tournament is now European Champions Competition.

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10-15-2013, 08:19 AM
  #70
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Nyt on lähdetty niin päin liikkeelle, että raha on nyt ollut taustalla. Ennen se oli aina se merkittävä tekijä. Olemme lähteneet urheilulliset perusteet edellä. Palkinnoista voidaan kertoa joskus tammi-helmikuussa.
http://yle.fi/urheilu/kummola_vahvis..._alkaa/6883263

Anybody to translate this? Google sucks...

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Old
10-15-2013, 09:54 AM
  #71
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http://yle.fi/urheilu/kummola_vahvis..._alkaa/6883263

Kummola confirms the ECC will begin. 40-44 teams, about 6 from Finland. KHL involvement still open, two minor details still to be decided(Jokerit involvement will depend on this). Negotiated last Friday in St. Petersburg. He also clarified Austria means EBEL teams(could include Slovenian and Hungarian teams). European Trophy serves as foundation. Certain teams have guaranteed entry for the first 3 years, after that teams will be decided according to sporting achievements. National champions and regular season winners have guaranteed entry. Money prizes still open, they went with the goal that sporting achievements are at the forefront, financial in the background. Information on financial rewards will be announced in January-February.

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10-15-2013, 10:48 AM
  #72
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Just curious if this guy is right

Quote:
Europa-Liga wird scheitern

Der Fussball hat den Ausbruch aus den lokalen, nationalen Märkten geschafft und mit der Champions League eine der grössten Geldmaschinen der Sportgeschichte gebaut. Das Eishockey hat es hingegen bis heute nicht geschafft, eine gesamteuropäische Meisterschaft aufzuziehen. Und wird es mit den herkömmlichen Methoden nicht schaffen.

Auch der neuste Versuch einer Europa-Liga wird gerade mit rührender Naivität und erstaunlichem Dilettantismus aufgegleist und wird hochkant scheitern. Die einzige Möglichkeit, aus den engen Hosen der nationalen Märkte auszubrechen ist eine Zusammenarbeit mit der KHL. Nur über die KHL ist es möglich, eine erfolgreiche internationale Klubmeisterschaft aufzubauen.
by google
Quote:
Europa League will fail

Football has managed to escape from the local, national markets and built with the Champions League, one of the greatest money machine in sports history. The Hockey has not, however, made ​​it to today, raise a pan-European championship.And it will not make it with the conventional methods.

Also, the latest attempt at a Europa League is just amazing rerailed with touching naivety and amateurishness and will fail on edge. The only way to break out of the tight pants of national markets is a collaboration with the KHL. Only the KHL, it is possible to build a successful international club championship.
The point - you can not copy UEFA Champions League in euro hockey. It does not work.

Quote:
Und wird es mit den herkömmlichen Methoden nicht schaffen.

And it will not make it with the conventional methods.

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10-15-2013, 02:29 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Just curious if this guy is right



by google


The point - you can not copy UEFA Champions League in euro hockey. It does not work.
Safe to say anything hockey comes up with is going to look small when comared to Soccer's CL but plenty of other sports with a healthy following in multiple European countries, such as basketball, rugby & handball, have managed to create their own (much smaller) version of such a tournament. I fail to see how hockey is uniquely different.

Trying to grow something slowly, 'organically' and from the ground up might not be all that exciting but the KHL model isn't going to work for every (most) club(s). To be honest apart from a club being provided with tens of millions of $$$ from Russian tied individuals, companies and governments to cover the massive gap between revenue and expenses what exactly is the KHL model?

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10-15-2013, 03:32 PM
  #74
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Safe to say anything hockey comes up with is going to look small when comared to Soccer's CL but plenty of other sports with a healthy following in multiple European countries, such as basketball, rugby & handball, have managed to create their own (much smaller) version of such a tournament. I fail to see how hockey is uniquely different.

Trying to grow something slowly, 'organically' and from the ground up might not be all that exciting but the KHL model isn't going to work for every (most) club(s). To be honest apart from a club being provided with tens of millions of $$$ from Russian tied individuals, companies and governments to cover the massive gap between revenue and expenses what exactly is the KHL model?
If you want, I can give you a link for Zauggs´s interview on the topic ECC/KHL and Switzerland (in slovak).

The point is market. Handball and Basketball are very popular in Germany, Spain, France - the biggest western european markets. Hockey is not. You need to get relativelly big tv contract/sponsorship deal for ECC, but you dont get it in Spain or France or Germany. Finland/Sweden/Czech rep are not big/important enough to generate big tv deals, especially if you dont have russian teams (big market and top hockey country + great teams). That is a different from handball/basket.

We can talk about people behind scenes of ECC. The same ppl who created ET, uninterested tournament for fans/media/tv.

Will be interesting to follow this statement "ECC will fail and is only a waste of time" said by author.

Btw, I agree with you that KHL is not for everyone.

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10-15-2013, 04:09 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by vorky View Post
The point is market. Handball and Basketball are very popular in Germany, Spain, France - the biggest western european markets. Hockey is not. You need to get relativelly big tv contract/sponsorship deal for ECC, but you dont get it in Spain or France or Germany. Finland/Sweden/Czech rep are not big/important enough to generate big tv deals, especially if you dont have russian teams (big market and top hockey country + great teams).
The DEL comfortably out draws both handball and basketball in average and total attendance in Germany. Per Wikipedia generally each year there is only one German club playing in basketball's Euroleague. I can only find Internet hearsay regarding TV money, so you can choose to disregard it if you wish, but TV rights appear to be worth very little. I think you are overestimating the interest in club basketball and handball in Germany. On the surface it wouldn't appear that neither sport, at least on the club level, has a significantly higher (if any at all) level of interest than hockey.

According to any numbers I can find online France's basketball league averages about the same as hockey's EBEL or the Swedish 2nd tier. France's handball league averages even less. As with Germany, and once again just hearsay, TV rights for both sports appear to be minimal.

Club basketball in Spain does seem to be a pretty big deal. The league seems to average in and around about 7,000/per game, so a few hundred more than the top drawing hockey leagues. Handball on the other hand... Not so much. Spain also has a siginificantly smaller economy than either France or Germany. To be fair, outside of Germany, it is also far larger than any of the economies of the countries involved in the ET (or whatever they are going to be calling it).

Italy is another large country that is generally considered a European basketball hotbed but interest in club basketball seems to be closer to the levels seen in Germany and France. Handball seems to have a very low profile in the country.

Also... If hockey is so insignificant in Germany and the markets of Sweden, Switzerland, Finland, Czech Rep, are too small to gererate any meaningful revenue why is the KHL as interested in those markets as you insist they are?

With all that said, hopefully the top teams from the KHL are involved/invited. But even if they aren't hopefully the tournament will be a long term success. Not sure why anyone would root against it.


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