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Old
10-01-2013, 01:22 AM
  #276
The Mouth
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Fast and Miller looked like they wanted to impress the new coach. Kreider frankly other than streaking down the other side of a 2 on 1 doesn't seem to have found his game. He doesn't shoot enough, he doesnt drive the net and doesn't put himself in good position to shoot What I did like is that he does use his body enough to have a maturing physical game. I was disappointed in him this pre-season.

Hrivik played well enough to make the team, I thought but he needs to keep his head up or he's gonna get concussed yet again. I think we have depth in the AHL forward wise. The defense is a whole other story. Justin Falk was terrible in the preseason. I frankly would rather have had Emminger. Also MDZ was not all that great either. They need a physical 7 guy.

The Rangers will have a big problem at first transitioning from a zone defensive coverage to a man on man one. It could be a rough beginning.

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10-01-2013, 06:34 AM
  #277
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Originally Posted by PuckyTheWhale View Post
PA Parenteau, Matt Moulson, Alex Burrows, Matt Read, any player that comes into the league after spending 4 years in the NCAA?

I am in amazement that I have to argue with your statement that "22 is not that young" in today's NHL.
Even when pushed, you have to research to come up with a list of average NHL forwards, and they are the exceptions that prove the rule.

The point about "22" is that for offensively gifted forwards, most have already cemented a position and are scoring.

Matt Read is 27 and a third line right wing on a bad team. If that is Kreider's upside, now would be a good time to trade him.

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10-01-2013, 06:38 AM
  #278
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How many of the 50 completed college? Different ballgame when it comes to college kids.
That opens up a different topic that demonstrates that the best offensive players don't usually come through the college ranks.

The point remains that if you had been told two years ago that Kreider would not start this season with the parent club, everyone here would have been disappointed. That is why I am disappointed.

He either nails it this season or I think he is gone.

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10-01-2013, 06:47 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
That opens up a different topic that demonstrates that the best offensive players don't usually come through the college ranks.

The point remains that if you had been told two years ago that Kreider would not start this season with the parent club, everyone here would have been disappointed. That is why I am disappointed.

He either nails it this season or I think he is gone.
I agree. That's not to say that if he doesn't have a breakthrough this year that he never will, but I don't think it's with us. I think if he's having a mediocre year that Slats actually flips him mid-season.

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10-01-2013, 07:13 AM
  #280
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If you had the chance to redo the last part of the Nash trade...keep the 1st round 2013 or keep Kreider... would you have still dealt the 1st in the Nash trade or keep the 1st and trade Kreider instead??

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10-01-2013, 07:30 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
If you had the chance to redo the last part of the Nash trade...keep the 1st round 2013 or keep Kreider... would you have still dealt the 1st in the Nash trade or keep the 1st and trade Kreider instead??
Kept Kreider.

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10-01-2013, 07:45 AM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
If you had the chance to redo the last part of the Nash trade...keep the 1st round 2013 or keep Kreider... would you have still dealt the 1st in the Nash trade or keep the 1st and trade Kreider instead??
Definitely kept Kreider. Whoever we would've picked won't be better than Kreider for the next few years, if ever. And we are in 'win now' mode.

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10-01-2013, 07:46 AM
  #283
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Kreider just looked lost year - saw him at a few AHL games and he looked just as lost there. Maybe AV's new system will help him. I wouldn't give up on the guy just yet.

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10-01-2013, 08:35 AM
  #284
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People are saying Kreider needs to stop thinking and just follow his instincts. While he probably would be better right now if he did that, I think he's better off trying to play smarter hockey long term.

I mean, the kid is a beast, he's strong as hell, can outskate pretty much anyone, has a sweet shot and not the worst hands. His problem is his lack of hockey sense and his physical dominance has allowed him to be a stud in college in spite of that. He didn't have to play smart in college, he would still dominate.

So in the playoffs in 2012 he did allright keeping things simple and he struggled more last season when he tried to do more. Is that an argument for him returning to doing things simple again?

I don't think so. Hockey sense can be taught, tactical choices can be taught. He can be a much better player over time if given time to develop and fill the holes of his game. I think starting him in Hartford on the first line is the right move. Let him learn and in time bring him up to play in the top nine. Not giving up on the kid anytime soon.

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10-01-2013, 08:52 AM
  #285
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Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
People are saying Kreider needs to stop thinking and just follow his instincts. While he probably would be better right now if he did that, I think he's better off trying to play smarter hockey long term.

I mean, the kid is a beast, he's strong as hell, can outskate pretty much anyone, has a sweet shot and not the worst hands. His problem is his lack of hockey sense and his physical dominance has allowed him to be a stud in college in spite of that. He didn't have to play smart in college, he would still dominate.

So in the playoffs in 2012 he did allright keeping things simple and he struggled more last season when he tried to do more. Is that an argument for him returning to doing things simple again?

I don't think so. Hockey sense can be taught, tactical choices can be taught. He can be a much better player over time if given time to develop and fill the holes of his game. I think starting him in Hartford on the first line is the right move. Let him learn and in time bring him up to play in the top nine. Not giving up on the kid anytime soon.
I generally do agree with your point. I think he would be best served to keep it simple to start to build confidence. Then hopefully grow into a more advanced role with time. The kid just needs to play, and play, and play in all situations to improve his reads. Hartford is the best spot for that.

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10-01-2013, 09:00 AM
  #286
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sounds like Cally could be back as early as next week. He has to be on the IR no? given bodies still around. Does have to miss a minimum amount of games? Fast likely goes down to make room

Richards, Stepan, Nash
Pouliott, Brassard, Callahan
Miller(Hagelin out), Boyle, Zuccarello
Pyatt, Moore, Dorsett,
Asham

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Old
10-01-2013, 09:04 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by SixGoalieSystem View Post
I mean, the kid is a beast, he's strong as hell, can outskate pretty much anyone, has a sweet shot and not the worst hands. His problem is his lack of hockey sense and his physical dominance has allowed him to be a stud in college in spite of that. He didn't have to play smart in college, he would still dominate.
I am starting to think his physical attributes have been overstated around here, especially when compared to the NHL level -- that goes specifically for his skating.

Who knows though. If he has this blazing speed everyone is talking about, he sure as hell hasnt been using it. Whether its just not having it, or just not using it, the bad results are the same.

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10-01-2013, 09:08 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I am starting to think his physical attributes have been overstated around here, especially when compared to the NHL level -- that goes specifically for his skating.

Who knows though. If he has this blazing speed everyone is talking about, he sure as hell hasnt been using it. Whether its just not having it, or just not using it, the bad results are the same.
I dont think they are overstated. With that said, with any amount of speed you still need to know when and how to use it at this level. Rico Fata was barely an NHLer and he was one of the fastest guys I have seen.

I think also that people are forgetting that prospects in the power-forward mold usually take much longer to develop for whatever reason. I am hoping at least that this is true for Kreider.

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10-01-2013, 09:09 AM
  #289
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Vitto 79 - I like your lines. Only change would be to have Fast replace Pyatt on 4th line.

Can Fast PK at all? I always think its useful to have good PKers on your 4th line so you don't overburden your go-to guys - Stepan, Callahan.

Also, Zuccarello has meshed well with Pouliot and Brassard. I wonder if AV would consider:

Zuccarello - Brassard - Callahan
Pouliot - Miller/Boyle - Miller/Boyle

If Richards on Nash-Stepan line fails, I would go with:

Hagelin - Stepan - Callahan
Richards - Brassard - Nash
Pouliot - Miller/Boyle - Zuccarello
Fast - Miller/Boyle - Dorsett

Ideally, Pouliot and Zuccarello provide some 3rd line scoring and Asham can be inserted for Fast as necessary.

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10-01-2013, 09:10 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by h0ckeyman View Post
I dont think they are overstated. With that said, with any amount of speed you still need to know when and how to use it at this level. Rico Fata was barely an NHLer and he was one of the fastest guys I have seen.

I think also that people are forgetting that prospects in the power-forward mold usually take much longer to develop for whatever reason. I am hoping at least that this is true for Kreider.
Power forward? You sure?

Truth is, I dont think Kreider knows what kind of player he is. And thats the problem.

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10-01-2013, 09:15 AM
  #291
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Power forward? You sure?

Truth is, I dont think Kreider knows what kind of player he is. And thats the problem.
I think he knows what type of player he is. I think he is overthinking everything because he is nervous and wants to impress.

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10-01-2013, 09:15 AM
  #292
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Power forward? You sure?

Truth is, I dont think Kreider knows what kind of player he is. And thats the problem.
Yes if he is going to succeed in the NHL that is probably what he will be classified as IMO.

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10-01-2013, 09:21 AM
  #293
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I know Kreider isnt the big bruiser Lucic is, but how long did it take him to develop into the player he is now?

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10-01-2013, 09:28 AM
  #294
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I think he knows what type of player he is. I think he is overthinking everything because he is nervous and wants to impress.
I think hes overthinking too -- but its because this level of play is moving a bit too fast for him.

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10-01-2013, 09:31 AM
  #295
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Originally Posted by Hodgy OFWG View Post
I know Kreider isnt the big bruiser Lucic is, but how long did it take him to develop into the player he is now?
Lucic was a 40 point guy at 20 and firmly established himself as a 60 point guy by 23.

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10-01-2013, 09:43 AM
  #296
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Lucic was a 40 point guy at 20 and firmly established himself as a 60 point guy by 23.
Lucic is a one of a kind beast, and a difference maker. Guys like Max Pacioretty, and Bobby Ryan are two guys that seduced coaches and management with their skill set to get some early ice time. But both didn't really become the players they are until playing a season's worth of AHL hockey at a point per game pace.

I liked JT Miller's quote of playing with a sense of urgency, because Chris didn't do that until he took two bad first period penalties. No complaints about having both in the organization, but as it stands today, one just wanted it more.

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10-01-2013, 09:46 AM
  #297
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I liked JT Miller's quote of playing with a sense of urgency, because Chris didn't do that until he took two bad first period penalties. No complaints about having both in the organization, but as it stands today, one just wanted it more.
Well said. Luckily, the Kreider excuses going back to last season - which were mostly all bogus anyway - have stopped, and enough people realize its on Kreider now. He needs to play like he wants to take a spot. Hes been a pedestrian out there.

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10-01-2013, 09:46 AM
  #298
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The Rangers have 22 healthy players on the roster with Callahan(will they put him on 7 day IR and make it retroactive to the beginning of camp)and Hagelin on long term IR. Callahan would make 23 players. The Rangers need to exceed the upper limit to benefit from long term IR. They exceed it with the 23 players and Hagelin on long term IR.

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10-01-2013, 09:48 AM
  #299
SixGoalieSystem
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I am starting to think his physical attributes have been overstated around here, especially when compared to the NHL level -- that goes specifically for his skating.

Who knows though. If he has this blazing speed everyone is talking about, he sure as hell hasnt been using it. Whether its just not having it, or just not using it, the bad results are the same.
You could be right. Still, I watched a few of his college games and his speed really stood out, as it did in the playoffs a little more than a year ago. He's a big body so he does take some time to get top speed, but I do believe he has all the physical tools needed to make it.

It remains to be seen if he has the head and heart as well.

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10-01-2013, 09:51 AM
  #300
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Kreider is a 2nd year pro. The Rangers have a lot invested in him and he is a favorite of management.

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