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Old
10-01-2013, 01:11 PM
  #701
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Its a new and fun way of arguing here. Take others' seemingly solid opinions based on the most likely scenarios -- then attack that viewpoint as not 100% fact based -- despite the fact that nobody on this board knows exactly what happened.

Might as well shut down the board right now if this informed surmising is argued against.
Those aren't even vaguely "solid opinions based on the most likely scenarios". If you're going to claim that then you have to back it up with something better than "it seemed like"

They're "opinions based on being salty at the teams general manager and overly concerned about preseason games"

e: to be completely blunt I am outright amazed at the number of people who seem to be throwing in the towel on this season based off of some preseason games. Preseason!! When has the preseason ever mattered in the slightest?? John Tripp?? Almost the most you can say about preseason is "some dudes skated around and whacked at each other with sticks".

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10-01-2013, 01:15 PM
  #702
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More than anything else the Rangers decision to give Richards another shot makes me wonder the most. Even if his play was good enough to justify the yearly amount of $ and/or cap$ going his way--which it hasn't--the new CBA has turned that very same contract into a ticking time bomb. The only sensible thing was to get rid of it and this coming summer will be our last chance to amnesty him--that's if he's healthy--and if he isn't healthy we've already had our last chance. The intelligent thing was to not play with fire.

To me that was not a hard decision to make. It was perfectly justifiable just on the grounds of Brad's underwhelming performance in his first two seasons of that contract. Nothing from preseason suggests to me at this point that Richards actual play is going to have any kind of revival--apart from the numerous Rangers media team shilling for him and the new coaching staff going the extra mile to try to find a fit. Might as well try to square a circle.

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10-01-2013, 01:24 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Those aren't even vaguely "solid opinions based on the most likely scenarios". If you're going to claim that then you have to back it up with something better than "it seemed like"

They're "opinions based on being salty at the teams general manager and overly concerned about preseason games"

e: to be completely blunt I am outright amazed at the number of people who seem to be throwing in the towel on this season based off of some preseason games. Preseason!! When has the preseason ever mattered in the slightest?? John Tripp?? Almost the most you can say about preseason is "some dudes skated around and whacked at each other with sticks".
Pre-season mattered to Kreider and it matters to this team because of the roster construction.

I'd say that if we were to take anything out of it, pre-season has exposed gaping holes on the left side that won't be solved, even when we are healthy.

Otherwise you're right.

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10-01-2013, 01:24 PM
  #704
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You seriously think Columbus finishes behind Philly? And with only 56 points?? hahaha

I'd put Columbus ahead of us, even.
I don't think they only have 56 points but Columbus ahead of NYR is just not going to happen if you ask me.

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10-01-2013, 01:24 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by nrf83 View Post
I don't know what everyone expected to see, but it was pretty obvious to me that the majority of the players were going through the motions.
Classic.

Considering this same squad's lackluster and often disinterested play helped get their last coach fired, I'd have figured they'd come out like gangbusters in an attempt to grab that proverbial clean slate. Instead, they got outscored 22-8.

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10-01-2013, 01:27 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Funny, that how I feel about the Rangers. I get the feeling that there was a reason why Torts wanted them to be overly defensive and it was because this team is not very offensively gifted. And now AV is trying to put a square peg into a round hole.
There's two extremes. Overly defensive, and run and gun. There's no reason a team with offensive talent (not a lot, but enough.) should play block every shot dump and chase hockey. There's enough talent here to play a little looser. We shouldn't be either extreme, there should be some middle ground.

Edit: And if you really feel the Rangers need EVERYTHING right to make the playoffs, I guess you've never heard of Henrik Lundqvist, who can single handedly drag them kicking and screaming into the big dance. Or you're just incredibly pessimistic on what looks to be a solid roster.

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10-01-2013, 01:29 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Your phrasing in the final paragraph

Also it's just some outright ridiculous speculating
You're not concerned about the team losing four games by an aggregate score of 18-5? A trip where the Rangers held the lead for a grand total of about 5 minutes?

You're not concerned that the franchise player had a GAA of 4.13 with a .859 save percentage?

You're not concerned that this team's power play looks just as anemic as it did last season?

You're not concerned that the two big ticket forwards combined for 0 points?

This front office doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. And if you don't see that he has a propensity for making moves in a vacuum than I don't really know what to tell you. But, y'know, that's only my opinion.

And it's a cliche, but it's true, it's not that they're losing, it's the way they're losing. AV was brought in to improve the offense. But there are no Sedin twins here.

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10-01-2013, 01:34 PM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
e: to be completely blunt I am outright amazed at the number of people who seem to be throwing in the towel on this season based off of some preseason games. Preseason!! When has the preseason ever mattered in the slightest?? John Tripp?? Almost the most you can say about preseason is "some dudes skated around and whacked at each other with sticks".
I can only speak for myself. For me it is less reacting to what did happen, and more seeing nothing to dissuade issues I expected to have with the team before camp even opened.

There is obviously still time, and IMO if the change in philosophy works it is gonna take some time to get there. I certainly did not expect them to look flawless and said from the first GDT it is gonna take 40, 80, even 160 games to fairly evaluate the switch to AV.

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Old
10-01-2013, 01:36 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You're not concerned about the team losing four games by an aggregate score of 18-5? A trip where the Rangers held the lead for a grand total of about 5 minutes?

You're not concerned that the franchise player had a GAA of 4.13 with a .859 save percentage?

You're not concerned that this team's power play looks just as anemic as it did last season?

You're not concerned that the two big ticket forwards combined for 0 points?

This front office doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. And if you don't see that he has a propensity for making moves in a vacuum than I don't really know what to tell you.

And it's a cliche, but it's true, it's not that they're losing, it's the way they're losing. AV was brought in to improve the offense. But there are no Sedin twins here.
My biggest concern.

If our big guns aren't producing against ahl'ers and preseason fodder, what are they going to do against shutdown lines.

It's not just their lack of production though. It's their inability to create scoring opportunities. That's what's terrifying. It's not a matter of goals not going in. The biggest concern, for me, is sustaining offensive pressure.

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10-01-2013, 01:38 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I can only speak for myself. For me it is less reacting to what did happen, and more seeing nothing to dissuade issues I expected to have with the team before camp even opened..
That's well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
There is obviously still time, and IMO if the change in philosophy works it is gonna take some time to get there. I certainly did not expect them to look flawless and said from the first GDT it is gonna take 40, 80, even 160 games to fairly evaluate the switch to AV.
I agree that I can cut them some flack as they are learning a new system, but that they played with such little intensity that it made me scratch my head.

I don't think anyone is throwing in the towel. But I can't ignore some red flags.

But, y'know, that's only my opinion.

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Old
10-01-2013, 01:41 PM
  #711
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You can't place too much stock in the preseason, but then again, the preseason is a time when rosters are constructed. Vets and rookies are fighting for spots on the squads; other players are vying for spots throughout the lineup. You'd like to see a sense of immediacy and urgency out of some players. I didn't see enough it from our squad.

I couldn't tell if Richards was going through the motions or if it's just the way he normally plays now. Nash looked disinterested, especially when compared to the opposing team's top players such as the Sedins, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards, etc. who were all more engaged then him. Kreider didn't seem to realize he was fighting for a spot on the team until his last game. I hope the team plays with more intensity once the regular season starts, but it remains a concern for me until I see them do so.

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10-01-2013, 01:41 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by Riche16 View Post
I'd say that if we were to take anything out of it, pre-season has exposed gaping holes on the left side that won't be solved, even when we are healthy.
Psssh, Brad Richards at left wing will solve that problem!

Nah I'm not worried about the Rangers preseason results, sorry. I'm not even terribly worried if they're slow out of the gate this year for the first month or so until they get their full roster back and have a chance to acclimate to a new system.

I also don't really particularly think management is as bad as people think it is, but that's a long discussion I'm not going to make right now.

I am prepared to argue that in general the Rangers are a more offensively talented team than I think many give them credit for, but I think Tortorella started with a team that wasn't particularly deep or talented and even as it got better, he stuck with the idea of "they're not talented, we can't afford to open things up at all". At some point I think he became the "square peg into a round hole" that people are fond of using.

The Rangers aren't a high powered offense team but they should be able to play a good balanced game that allows them to be more creatively offensively while being responsible defensively. They have the personnel for that, and they have the personnel to have a decent power play as well, but it's going to take a coach to figure out how to get that to work.

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Old
10-01-2013, 01:47 PM
  #713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
You're not concerned about the team losing four games by an aggregate score of 18-5? A trip where the Rangers held the lead for a grand total of about 5 minutes?

You're not concerned that the franchise player had a GAA of 4.13 with a .859 save percentage?

You're not concerned that this team's power play looks just as anemic as it did last season?

You're not concerned that the two big ticket forwards combined for 0 points?

This front office doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. And if you don't see that he has a propensity for making moves in a vacuum than I don't really know what to tell you. But, y'know, that's only my opinion.

And it's a cliche, but it's true, it's not that they're losing, it's the way they're losing. AV was brought in to improve the offense. But there are no Sedin twins here.
First, they shake up a team that made the ECF, a perfect team for Torts; Then, they make moves during the following season to get back to a more "Torts team"; Lastly, they fire Torts after said season.

NYR have been pretty consistently competitive since the '05 LO, but will these habits build a Cup winner? Mehhhhhhhhh.

Also, regarding the lack of intensity shown in the preseason, I'd just like to throw out there the obvious lack of Hagelin and Callahan, indubitably our two biggest spark-plugs. Seemed to me that some people let their expectations of AV flourish during the stagnant latter half of the offseason. NYR have average/above-average offense with Hagelin, Stepan, and Callahan.


Last edited by Aufheben: 10-01-2013 at 01:58 PM.
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Old
10-01-2013, 01:48 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Nash looked disinterested
Nash looked like the concussed Eric Lindros—a big strong player who plays on the perimeter.

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Old
10-01-2013, 01:51 PM
  #715
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New York Rangers ‏@NYRangers 1h

#NYR working extensively on PP today...1st unit: Miller-Stepan-Nash-Richards-Staal
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New York Rangers ‏@NYRangers 1h

Derick Brassard who was working on second PP unit (with Zuccarello, Pouliot,Del Zotto, Girardi) now switches with Miller on first unit
I like the PP units, EXCEPT that Girardi is on the 2nd one over Strålman/Moore/McD.

I get that AV wants a RH shot. But even then there is literally nothing on a PP that Girardi does better than Strålman.

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10-01-2013, 01:53 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
I like the PP units, EXCEPT that Girardi is on the 2nd one over Strålman/Moore/McD.

I get that AV wants a RH shot. But even then there is literally nothing on a PP that Girardi does better than Strålman.
Girardi actually has a pretty good, hard, low shot. The problem has continually been that there is NEVER anyone in front of the goalie. It's an incredibly "tippable" shot.

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10-01-2013, 01:55 PM
  #717
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Richards on the point, sigh. Can't imagine it would all of a sudden work now after it hasn't so many times before.

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10-01-2013, 01:58 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Girardi actually has a pretty good, hard, low shot. The problem has continually been that there is NEVER anyone in front of the goalie. It's an incredibly "tippable" shot.
Eh, he doesn't have the greatest decision making on the power play though.

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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Richards on the point, sigh. Can't imagine it would all of a sudden work now after it hasn't so many times before.
Richards has been good on the PP point in the past and he probably has the best point shot of the team...a new coach with a new PP system might be able to get him back to being productive

I'm kinda miffed at how the Rangers beatwriters seem to be ignoring practices and we're getting all the info from the Rangers twitter feed

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10-01-2013, 01:58 PM
  #719
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Girardi on the powerplay oh my god make it stop. What do all these coaches see in Girardi at the point other than he's a RHD? He's got no ability to run a PP. At all.

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Old
10-01-2013, 01:59 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Girardi actually has a pretty good, hard, low shot. The problem has continually been that there is NEVER anyone in front of the goalie. It's an incredibly "tippable" shot.
I'd say the problem is that he doesn't get it through the forwards. But yeah, that was probably a bit of hyperbole on my part. Girardi has a better shot when it gets through.

But even so, he doesn't work the blue line well at all and gets very stationary.

Strålman is a lot better at keeping the puck in and pressure on, as well as moving laterally along the line to create openings for passes/shots.

A big problem with our PP has been the lack of mobility, and Girardi has probably been the most stationary player of them all.

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10-01-2013, 02:02 PM
  #721
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A big problem with our PP has been the lack of mobility, and Girardi has probably been the most stationary player of them all.
Yeah this I was just about to say probably the biggest thing AV and Arniel can do to make the Rangers PP better is to get the guys moving the puck around effectively and staying mobile themselves. The Rangers never stretched out the opposing teams penalty kill very much in recent years because they just didn't make the other team have to move much to keep things covered

Brassard and Zucarello should be good on the power play since they can make those moves and stretch things out, hopefully the rest of the team will follow suit

e: if the Rangers actually had a good power play these past couple of years they'd probably have been a contender, it's just unbelievable how bad it has been and how much it has dragged this team down. A good power play can absolutely be the difference between a top 10 offense and a pedestrian offense

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10-01-2013, 02:12 PM
  #722
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Rather have Stralman up there than Girardi.

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Old
10-01-2013, 02:17 PM
  #723
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We do have a 1st round pick this year right? Draisatl please

jk guys, calm down, geee

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Old
10-01-2013, 02:23 PM
  #724
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Considering the excessive pinching in that AV likes to do on the PP, I much prefer Girardi being able to get back to stop the occasional 2 on 1 SH rush than Moore or Stralman

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10-01-2013, 02:34 PM
  #725
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Girardi's shot is fine. It's just always getting blocked. You'd think he'd be good at avoiding that since he is a master shot blocker himself.

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