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Old
10-01-2013, 09:55 AM
  #301
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
Kreider is a 2nd year pro. The Rangers have a lot invested in him and he is a favorite of management.
And besides a few games in the 2012 playoffs, he has done nothing to legitimize their faith in him. Someone needs to give him some smelling salts and get him to play harder, and I think he'll be fine. But theres nothing more frustrating than watching a player with the tools stroll through their opportunities.

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10-01-2013, 09:59 AM
  #302
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Kreider is a 2nd year pro. The Rangers have a lot invested in him and he is a favorite of management.
The bold is key. People around here act like this kid has been struggling to crack an NHL roster for 4 or 5 years now. He's barely played a full schedule of professional games, spent a significant portion of last year with a bone chip in his foot, and was sent back and forth between Hartford and NY while management battled with the coaching staff over whether or not he was ready.

He has the tools to be an effective player in a scoring role. Hopefully with some more time he can fill that spot. The bigger issue is the Rangers lack of depth on the left side, which is forcing players like Kreider to play a role they aren't ready for. Moving Richards to LW doesn't solve that problem either. He's done. Should have gone after someone else in the off season.

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10-01-2013, 10:06 AM
  #303
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Kreider has not been a consistent scorer at any level yet. Not NCAA, AHL or NHL.

Artyukhin had tools too. He didn't score at any level, either.

I'm not saying he won't be an NHLer, but I've been trying to calm people on the kid for almost four years. He didn't have a good coach in the NCAA, he didn't have a good coach in the AHL, and he has subsequently never been taught to play hockey.

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10-01-2013, 10:19 AM
  #304
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Imagine Kreider with Stepan's Hockey IQ & Hagelin's motor.

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10-01-2013, 10:22 AM
  #305
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I am a bit confused on the discussion on Kreider.

Like what is he supposed to do??? What is he too lazy to do? What is he overthinking? What doesn't he get?

-Kreider cannot forecheck

He is not good at it. I reported that a looong time ago. He is not Carl Hagelin. He is 220 lbs, he can go in straight lines and what not, but the forecheck is an art and Kreider is not good at it. I reported this after watching Kreider in the WCH's, he was first put in a typical young kid who is just told to go-role on the lw, but after 2 games his coached pulled him from that role and put him in a 3rd man back position, because Kreider ended up running into the boards 3 seconds after the D had played the puck in the WCH's. He has played a ton of game in the NHL so far, and has never been able to establish a presecense on the forecheck really. A shift here and there maybe, but thats it. He can't do it. Its laughable to think he is lazy and disinterested every time he hits the ice in the NHL. He probably have adrenaline up to his ears at times...

-Kreider cannot protect the puck

He is strong, but protecting the puck is an art. Strength is maybe 5% of it, and he just don't have that ability of a Adam Graves to fight of 10 bumps in the back while parrying 18 stick checks per second while being glued to the puck.

-Kreider shot is not much of an asset

He is shot is powerful, but come on, he is very far from a world class sniper. I've never seen him back away and bomb a puck on the net of a one-timer.

Ok, what can he do? Why did he score around a point per game in college?

-Once every other game, no matter level really, you get a step on a D. Not many D's will skate with Kreider in those situations. This means that he will get like a semi-breakaway once every other game.

-He is shot is heavy and a threat of plays of the rush.

-He is not a stiff when handling the puck.

-He will make the odd play with the puck

I mean, I guess I could be wrong, but the above is how I have described Kreider all along and its what I am seing right now. That is the player he is right now. Fairly ineffective on the forecheck. Not much of a factor on the circle. Not a sniper. Not a playmaker. Not because he is lazy and thinks he is a player he is not, but because you have the gifts you have and this is what he can do right now. But the kid is 21-22 y/o. If he keeps working hard for the coming 3-4 years, he will defintiely develop his game, find areas in which he can contribute offensively, improve greatly defensively and become an excellent PKer etc.

Hence, unless he collapse form the over-hype, I see no reason for why he won't become a solid 2-3rd line winger. A home-grown race horse version. Strong and durable. Its a bit of a pity that we have to put him in this sitaution by over-hyping him, but it is what it is... And some hailed members of the brass its certainly to blame too for that hype.


Last edited by Ola: 10-01-2013 at 10:30 AM.
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10-01-2013, 10:31 AM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Imagine Kreider with Stepan's Hockey IQ & Hagelin's motor.
He'd be Ryan Callahan?

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10-01-2013, 10:36 AM
  #307
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He'd be Ryan Callahan?
Better...........imo

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10-01-2013, 10:54 AM
  #308
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Kreider needs to keep his feet moving.

Whether it was the NCAA, WJC, AHL or NHL Kreider always struggled when he stops skating.

I have zero doubt about him becoming a very effective NHLer. I have serious doubts about whether he will become one for the Rangers.

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10-01-2013, 10:57 AM
  #309
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Some guys don't need any time while some need time. This Derek Stepan made the jump to the NHL after 2 years of college hockey. No games in the AHL. He hasn't missed a single NHL game due to injury or a healthy scratch. His skating is average but everything else is excellent. The Rangers need him to take that next step and prove he is a 75 point center in this league. Ryan McDonagh needed 3 years of college hockey and 3 months in the AHL. Carl Hagelin needed 4 years of college hockey and 2 months in the AHL. AV discussing Connor Allen as someone who opened up everyones eyes in pre-season but according to the Rangers scouts he was blah in the Traverse City. AV didn't go to TC. Oscar Lindberg was great in Traverse City and dropped off in camp. Kreider needs to continue where he left off in the AHL. The Rangers aren't playing the season with the same forwards on the roster now. Just play.

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10-01-2013, 10:59 AM
  #310
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The good news is, we actually have a decent crop of kids to develop in Hartford this year. A much more promising group than I can recall in recent history.

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10-01-2013, 11:00 AM
  #311
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I've been focusing on more important stuff, but let me get this straight:

Brad Richards is being moved to wing? Is that right?

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10-01-2013, 11:01 AM
  #312
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I've been focusing on more important stuff, but let me get this straight:

Brad Richards is being moved to wing? Is that right?
Correct

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10-01-2013, 11:02 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
The good news is, we actually have a decent crop of kids to develop in Hartford this year. A much more promising group than I can recall in recent history.
Agreed. However I have to say I am a bit concerned about 2 years from now when players like Kreider, Miller, Lindberg, Fast, Yogan, Kristo are too 'old' to be considered prospects. Who is left? Nieves?

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Old
10-01-2013, 11:03 AM
  #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I am a bit confused on the discussion on Kreider.

Like what is he supposed to do??? What is he too lazy to do? What is he overthinking? What doesn't he get?

-Kreider cannot forecheck

He is not good at it. I reported that a looong time ago. He is not Carl Hagelin. He is 220 lbs, he can go in straight lines and what not, but the forecheck is an art and Kreider is not good at it. I reported this after watching Kreider in the WCH's, he was first put in a typical young kid who is just told to go-role on the lw, but after 2 games his coached pulled him from that role and put him in a 3rd man back position, because Kreider ended up running into the boards 3 seconds after the D had played the puck in the WCH's. He has played a ton of game in the NHL so far, and has never been able to establish a presecense on the forecheck really. A shift here and there maybe, but thats it. He can't do it. Its laughable to think he is lazy and disinterested every time he hits the ice in the NHL. He probably have adrenaline up to his ears at times...

-Kreider cannot protect the puck

He is strong, but protecting the puck is an art. Strength is maybe 5% of it, and he just don't have that ability of a Adam Graves to fight of 10 bumps in the back while parrying 18 stick checks per second while being glued to the puck.

-Kreider shot is not much of an asset

He is shot is powerful, but come on, he is very far from a world class sniper. I've never seen him back away and bomb a puck on the net of a one-timer.

Ok, what can he do? Why did he score around a point per game in college?

-Once every other game, no matter level really, you get a step on a D. Not many D's will skate with Kreider in those situations. This means that he will get like a semi-breakaway once every other game.

-He is shot is heavy and a threat of plays of the rush.

-He is not a stiff when handling the puck.

-He will make the odd play with the puck

I mean, I guess I could be wrong, but the above is how I have described Kreider all along and its what I am seing right now. That is the player he is right now. Fairly ineffective on the forecheck. Not much of a factor on the circle. Not a sniper. Not a playmaker. Not because he is lazy and thinks he is a player he is not, but because you have the gifts you have and this is what he can do right now. But the kid is 21-22 y/o. If he keeps working hard for the coming 3-4 years, he will defintiely develop his game, find areas in which he can contribute offensively, improve greatly defensively and become an excellent PKer etc.

Hence, unless he collapse form the over-hype, I see no reason for why he won't become a solid 2-3rd line winger. A home-grown race horse version. Strong and durable. Its a bit of a pity that we have to put him in this sitaution by over-hyping him, but it is what it is... And some hailed members of the brass its certainly to blame too for that hype.
How did our scouts miss all this?

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Old
10-01-2013, 11:05 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Agreed. However I have to say I am a bit concerned about 2 years from now when players like Kreider, Miller, Lindberg, Fast, Yogan, Kristo are too 'old' to be considered prospects. Who is left? Nieves?
Tambellini

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10-01-2013, 11:19 AM
  #316
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Agreed. However I have to say I am a bit concerned about 2 years from now when players like Kreider, Miller, Lindberg, Fast, Yogan, Kristo are too 'old' to be considered prospects. Who is left? Nieves?
We don't know what we have yet in the players we drafted this year, but our 3rd round picks all have potential. And I imagine we'll draft some guys between now and then.

No team has an unlimited supply of good prospects.

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10-01-2013, 12:22 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well said. Luckily, the Kreider excuses going back to last season - which were mostly all bogus anyway - have stopped, and enough people realize its on Kreider now. He needs to play like he wants to take a spot. Hes been a pedestrian out there.
The kid didn't perform last year or during this preseason but that does not exonerate the Clown for his selfish, short sighted treatment of the kid. Torts did a terrible job with Kreider last year and that is not going to change.

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10-01-2013, 12:23 PM
  #318
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Fast decided to drop 31 for 12. Good choice

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10-01-2013, 12:26 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Agreed. However I have to say I am a bit concerned about 2 years from now when players like Kreider, Miller, Lindberg, Fast, Yogan, Kristo are too 'old' to be considered prospects. Who is left? Nieves?
Buchnevich, Tambellini, Duclair, Fogerty and whoever we draft this year.


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Old
10-01-2013, 12:29 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
The kid didn't perform last year or during this preseason but that does not exonerate the Clown for his selfish, short sighted treatment of the kid. Torts did a terrible job with Kreider last year and that is not going to change.
Tortorella wanted little to do with Kreider because he was the first and only one in the organization to recognize he simply wasn't NHL ready.

Kreider should've stayed in the AHL after the first time he was sent down. If you think it was Tortorella that brought him back up, then you simply don't know how things work.

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Old
10-01-2013, 12:54 PM
  #321
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Buchnevich, Tambellini, Duclair, Fogerty and whoever we draft this year.
I know there are players, but there is a HUGE drop-off in talent after this next crop of players.

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10-01-2013, 01:56 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The bold is key. People around here act like this kid has been struggling to crack an NHL roster for 4 or 5 years now. He's barely played a full schedule of professional games, spent a significant portion of last year with a bone chip in his foot, and was sent back and forth between Hartford and NY while management battled with the coaching staff over whether or not he was ready.

He has the tools to be an effective player in a scoring role. Hopefully with some more time he can fill that spot. The bigger issue is the Rangers lack of depth on the left side, which is forcing players like Kreider to play a role they aren't ready for. Moving Richards to LW doesn't solve that problem either. He's done. Should have gone after someone else in the off season.
Since 2nd year pro is not enough data to you, what is enough data to judge a player? My patience ends after this season.

Are you disappointed in Kreider's current abilities?

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10-01-2013, 02:02 PM
  #323
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Fast decided to drop 31 for 12. Good choice
And J.T. Miller with the 10; I dig it.

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10-01-2013, 02:06 PM
  #324
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The kid didn't perform last year or during this preseason but that does not exonerate the Clown for his selfish, short sighted treatment of the kid. Torts did a terrible job with Kreider last year and that is not going to change.
Torts has nothing to do with Kreider missing the boat [to start] this season. Look at what J.T Miller has done thus far; He's grabbed every opportunity. Maybe he's immune to the 'curse of Torts'. ::wind blows::

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10-01-2013, 02:28 PM
  #325
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Since 2nd year pro is not enough data to you, what is enough data to judge a player? My patience ends after this season.

Are you disappointed in Kreider's current abilities?
I think you have to judge every player differently. Do you think the Islanders fans are happy with the Todd Bertuzzi trade? Chris Kreider has such rare physical tools that you want to hold onto him rather then flip him for garbage like the Islanders did with Nino.

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