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Hal Gill signed to a one-year contract worth $700,000 (Oct. 1)

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10-01-2013, 03:01 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by dilbert719 View Post
Gill's deal isn't multi-year. There may be another criterion under which it counts, but that provision has nothing to do with Gill.
Oops. Good catch.

Edit: Thought I had it cleared up, but looks like I confused myself.

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10-01-2013, 03:05 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
But Gill and Gervais only take up cap space if they are on the roster, right?

Either one can be sent down to the AHL and their cap hit disappears, no?

That's why I don't have an issue with this signing. Yes, it takes up a contract spot, but given Grossmann's status, Gill seems a reasonable insurance policy.

Exactly.

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10-01-2013, 03:09 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
It's not disastrous and it can be pushed under the rug but how many times have we had similar arguments with marginal players that really provide little to no added value? This lockerroom presence argument is too overblown...what have these locker room guys like Cote, Shelley etc done to actually affect the win column and the inconsistency of the teams we've seen?
Shelley was well above the league minimum on a multi-year deal. His presence actually was restrictive. Gill can simply be sent to the AHL, his cap hit removed, if needed.

I guess I just don't see the two as comparable.

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10-01-2013, 03:09 PM
  #179
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How is Gill even considered reasonable insurance? This is almost like Holmgren calling Boosh insurance with Bryz and Leighton. Gill showed absolutely nothing in the preseason. He is basically a political signing if you ask me....not an actual good hockey signing. They are doing him a favor b/c of his past reputation. Jeesh if I had known we would sign this dude I would have not been so against signing Gagne....

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10-01-2013, 03:10 PM
  #180
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This signing is really not much at all and shouldn't include this much drama.

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10-01-2013, 03:10 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
And guys like Gervais, Gustafsson, etc. didn't already provide that?
They cannot in any sense replace the role Grossmann plays... they plug in more for Kimmo and Steit I'd think. They are depth D-men, but have limitations... as does Gill... together I suspect there is better insurance, and Gervais/Gill can be easily be stashed in The A if Cap need be, shed.

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10-01-2013, 03:11 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
Shelley was well above the league minimum on a multi-year deal. His presence actually was restrictive. Gill can simply be sent to the AHL, his cap hit removed, if needed.

I guess I just don't see the two as comparable.
It's comparable b/c they both provide no added value to the club..heck the Phantoms probably don't want him either..

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10-01-2013, 03:12 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
They cannot in any sense replace the role Grossmann plays... they plug in more for Kimmo and Steit I'd think. They are depth D-men, but have limitations... as does Gill... together I suspect there is better insurance, and Gervais/Gill can be easily be stashed in The A if Cap need be, shed.
I already responded to pretty much this exact post a while ago.

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10-01-2013, 03:14 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
How is Gill even considered reasonable insurance? This is almost like Holmgren calling Boosh insurance with Bryz and Leighton. Gill showed absolutely nothing in the preseason. He is basically a political signing if you ask me....not an actual good hockey signing. They are doing him a favor b/c of his past reputation. Jeesh if I had known we would sign this dude I would have not been so against signing Gagne....
We have a defensive corp that is both old and has major potential injury concerns--and I don't see a better defenseman available who could have been had at $700k (if Gagne could be had for that, we should have signed him).

I hope Gill never sees the ice, but if he does, he's a better option this year than Oliver Lauridsen. That's my $.02.

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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
It's comparable b/c they both provide no added value to the club..heck the Phantoms probably don't want him either..
I disagree, though only mildly. I can foresee a scenario in which I'd rather have Gill than not--namely, two or more of our top-six defenseman go down. I really couldn't say the same thing about Shelley.

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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I already responded to pretty much this exact post a while ago.
Some of us weren't persuaded.

No one thinks Gill is being brought in to spark the transition game. Literally, no one. He's being brought in as a potential injury replacement who can kill some penalties and clear the crease--in the unlikely event he sees major ice time. If he was a well-rounded defenseman still capable of playing every night, he likely wouldn't be available, and certainly not for $700k.


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10-01-2013, 03:17 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by OccupySouthBroadSt View Post
It's comparable b/c they both provide no added value to the club..heck the Phantoms probably don't want him either..
If he's on the Phantoms that playing time potentially taken from younger players.

Not that I think we have any legit prospects down there, but it is what it is.

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10-01-2013, 03:22 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If he's on the Phantoms that playing time potentially taken from younger players.

Not that I think we have any legit prospects down there, but it is what it is.
Yeah that was kind of what I was alluding to...

Murray actually likes to develop his D men and is pretty good at it especially european types....now if it was Hitchcock running the Phantoms it would be stocked with Gill, Walker, Kubina etc

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10-01-2013, 03:23 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
You guys don't get it and frankly you seem to be the guys overreacting. If you look through the topic pretty much everyone recognizes it's a minor signing. In fact, you two are the only ones to use words like "disastrous downside", "upset", etc.

Most of us are just recognizing it's a bad, redundant signing. The fact that Homer has at least one of these annually is also annoying as well.
Idk. I think even labeling this as a bad signing is overreacting. It is a depth signing. It is hard to argue that any depth signing is good or bad. This is a guy who, in all likelihood, will only play if there are two or more injuries to the defense at the same time and no trade can or will be made to rectify the situation. His paying instead of Manning, Alt, LaMarche, or whomever else would be called up instead is of very little consequence. It is unclear whether or not those three (or anyone else on ADK unless I am forgetting someone) can even play at the same level as Gil in an NHL setting. Yet this is a bad signing because now someone who maybe one day will be a borderline NHL defenseman won't get the callup if there are two injuries at the same time to the defense and no other moves are made. I just don't see it.

And it is only for one year. A one year signing under $1 million to a depth defenseman who in all likelihood won't play too many games is a bad signing? Why? How is this bad? Explain it other than "GIL SUCKS!" Because all #8 defensemen suck so that isn't good enough of an explanation. By definition a #8 defenseman is not very good, hence he is a #8 defenseman.

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10-01-2013, 03:24 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
I already responded to pretty much this exact post a while ago.
Yes I saw... I responded prior to reading the replies which stated to me/us what was obvious.
























BTW: ... And I didn't buy your response.

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10-01-2013, 03:25 PM
  #189
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Too much drama for a 7th/8th defenseman signing.

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10-01-2013, 03:25 PM
  #190
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Edit:

I got it backwards.

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10-01-2013, 03:27 PM
  #191
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EDIT: I saw that you took this bit out, so I'll do likewise, but I'll leave the example from the CBA here, since that does clarify the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHL CBA
Illustration #1: If a Player with a One-Way SPC with Paragraph 1 NHL Salary of $600,000 is Loaned to a Club's AHL affiliate, such Club shall not receive a charge to its Averaged Club Salary for as long as such Player is on Loan.
While Gill is with the Phantoms, the Flyers accrue no cap hit whatsoever.

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10-01-2013, 03:28 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by dilbert719 View Post
That's not how it works, according to the example provided in the CBA.



While Gill is with the Phantoms, the Flyers accrue no cap hit whatsoever.
Yeah, I messed up. I calculated it backwards.

I still think the 35+ contract comes into play, somehow. I've confused myself enough for one day, though.

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10-01-2013, 03:28 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If he's on the Phantoms that playing time potentially taken from younger players.

Not that I think we have any legit prospects down there, but it is what it is.

If not needed in the NHL Roster and sent down not really needing to stay sharp he could be a scratch... If he needs top stay sharp for possible recall, he could play limited minutes. In any event I believe we are now reaching to downsides that are meaningful.

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10-01-2013, 03:31 PM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
If he's on the Phantoms that playing time potentially taken from younger players.

Not that I think we have any legit prospects down there, but it is what it is.
Meh, you gotta have vets playing in the AHL as well. While it may take time away from younger players who are scratched or sent to the ECHL, I would imagine playing on a pairing with a guy with 1000+ NHL games would be good for that player. I know, I know, Gil sucks. But those 1000 NHL games probably have some value in a mentoring state, no?

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10-01-2013, 03:32 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Alchemy View Post
Too much drama for a 7th/8th defenseman signing.
The move is a continuation of a trend. Homer can't help but piss away contract and cap space on completely pointless signings every year.

This team isn't close to contending. They have more building to do. I'd rather keep Gill's contract space available in case some other move comes up that does make the team better and brings them closer to contention; it would give a little more flexibility in that sense. Burning that spot on a redundant guy who will have zero impact provides no benefits I can think of.

Is it a disaster? Hell no. But it's also completely unnecessary and probably counter-productive.

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10-01-2013, 03:34 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The move is a continuation of a trend. Homer can't help but piss away contract and cap space on completely pointless signings every year.

This team isn't close to contending. They have more building to do. I'd rather keep Gill's contract space available in case some other move comes up that does make the team better and brings them closer to contention. Burning that spot on a redundant guy who will have zero impact provides no benefits I can think of.

Is it a disaster? Hell no. But it's also completely unnecessary and probably counter-productive.
I bet Flyers management disagrees (not saying I do).

Gill's contract is cheap and only for one year. Not a lot than can go wrong with it.

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10-01-2013, 03:35 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The move is a continuation of a trend. Homer can't help but piss away contract and cap space on completely pointless signings every year.
At least its a low-cap, one-year deal.

Maybe he's learning?

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10-01-2013, 03:38 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I bet Flyers management disagrees (not saying I do).

Gill's contract is cheap and only for one year. Not a lot than can go wrong with it.
If Flyers management thinks they're serious contenders at this current point that would make me concerned.

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At least its a low-cap, one-year deal.

Maybe he's learning?
It certainly is progress.

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10-01-2013, 03:49 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The move is a continuation of a trend. Homer can't help but piss away contract and cap space on completely pointless signings every year.

This team isn't close to contending. They have more building to do. I'd rather keep Gill's contract space available in case some other move comes up that does make the team better and brings them closer to contention; it would give a little more flexibility in that sense. Burning that spot on a redundant guy who will have zero impact provides no benefits I can think of.

Is it a disaster? Hell no. But it's also completely unnecessary and probably counter-productive.
This is just insurance and depth. Where he made mistakes about this in the past was signing guys like Lilja, Shelley, and Walker to multi-year deals. Under no circumstance should he have made those moves. It had to be one year deals like Gill and Hall. You need as many bodies as you can in the NHL. The grind in an NHL season is underrated around these boards. Granted these extra low end depth bodies won't be of great quality in skill but you need guys with the experience to step in when unforeseen things happen.


Whether we contend or not is still to be decided as every team this year will be going through a moment of truth. All I know is I'm excited about the season. New blood, rivalries, and up and coming teams around the league. This year will not be easy for the flyers but I know that the top end talent of this team can compete with the best of them. The team just needs to stay healthy. Hard to do without luck but they have to absorb the blows.

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10-01-2013, 03:50 PM
  #200
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This is just insurance and depth. Where he made mistakes about this in the past was signing guys like Lilja, Shelley, and Walker to multi-year deals. Under no circumstance should he have made those moves. It had to be one year deals like Gill and Hall. You need as many bodies as you can in the NHL. The grind in an NHL season is underrated around these boards. Granted these extra low end depth bodies won't be of great quality in skill but you need guys with the experience to step in when unforeseen things happen.


Whether we contend or not is still to be decided as every team this year will be going through a moment of truth. All I know is I'm excited about the season. New blood, rivalries, and up and coming teams around the league. This year will not be easy for the flyers but I know that the top end talent of this team can compete with the best of them. The team just needs to stay healthy. Hard to do without luck but they have to absorb the blows.
Point of order: Lilja and Shelley were his fault, but Tampa Bay signed Matt Walker to that deal. We were just stuck with him as part of the Gagne deal that we never should have had to make in the first place.

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