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Old
10-01-2013, 03:10 PM
  #326
Fanned On It
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I am a bit confused on the discussion on Kreider.

Like what is he supposed to do??? What is he too lazy to do? What is he overthinking? What doesn't he get?

-Kreider cannot forecheck

He is not good at it. I reported that a looong time ago. He is not Carl Hagelin. He is 220 lbs, he can go in straight lines and what not, but the forecheck is an art and Kreider is not good at it. I reported this after watching Kreider in the WCH's, he was first put in a typical young kid who is just told to go-role on the lw, but after 2 games his coached pulled him from that role and put him in a 3rd man back position, because Kreider ended up running into the boards 3 seconds after the D had played the puck in the WCH's. He has played a ton of game in the NHL so far, and has never been able to establish a presecense on the forecheck really. A shift here and there maybe, but thats it. He can't do it. Its laughable to think he is lazy and disinterested every time he hits the ice in the NHL. He probably have adrenaline up to his ears at times...

-Kreider cannot protect the puck

He is strong, but protecting the puck is an art. Strength is maybe 5% of it, and he just don't have that ability of a Adam Graves to fight of 10 bumps in the back while parrying 18 stick checks per second while being glued to the puck.

-Kreider shot is not much of an asset

He is shot is powerful, but come on, he is very far from a world class sniper. I've never seen him back away and bomb a puck on the net of a one-timer.

Ok, what can he do? Why did he score around a point per game in college?

-Once every other game, no matter level really, you get a step on a D. Not many D's will skate with Kreider in those situations. This means that he will get like a semi-breakaway once every other game.

-He is shot is heavy and a threat of plays of the rush.

-He is not a stiff when handling the puck.

-He will make the odd play with the puck

I mean, I guess I could be wrong, but the above is how I have described Kreider all along and its what I am seing right now. That is the player he is right now. Fairly ineffective on the forecheck. Not much of a factor on the circle. Not a sniper. Not a playmaker. Not because he is lazy and thinks he is a player he is not, but because you have the gifts you have and this is what he can do right now. But the kid is 21-22 y/o. If he keeps working hard for the coming 3-4 years, he will defintiely develop his game, find areas in which he can contribute offensively, improve greatly defensively and become an excellent PKer etc.

Hence, unless he collapse form the over-hype, I see no reason for why he won't become a solid 2-3rd line winger. A home-grown race horse version. Strong and durable. Its a bit of a pity that we have to put him in this sitaution by over-hyping him, but it is what it is... And some hailed members of the brass its certainly to blame too for that hype.
You provide decent hockey analysis but then botch it with statements like "protecting the puck is only 5% strength.." come on really? If you want to say 50% strength then okay, that's fair. Kreider doesn't have a sniper's touch because he doesn't utilize the one-timer? What about his powerful snap-shot (that he hasn't been able to use much at the NHL level yet) which IMO is a sniper's most deadly tool.

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Old
10-01-2013, 03:28 PM
  #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Rhea View Post
I think you have to judge every player differently. Do you think the Islanders fans are happy with the Todd Bertuzzi trade? Chris Kreider has such rare physical tools that you want to hold onto him rather then flip him for garbage like the Islanders did with Nino.
His "rare" physical tools have never shown up on the scoresheet. I judge by results, not by how something looks.

Sometimes teams trade players too soon. Sometimes, too late.

He may become a player. So far, he is absolutely not one.

I cut him slack because he has some tools. Sometimes I think he would be better off as a great defensive forward.

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10-01-2013, 03:32 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Fanned On It View Post
You provide decent hockey analysis but then botch it with statements like "protecting the puck is only 5% strength.." come on really? If you want to say 50% strength then okay, that's fair. Kreider doesn't have a sniper's touch because he doesn't utilize the one-timer? What about his powerful snap-shot (that he hasn't been able to use much at the NHL level yet) which IMO is a sniper's most deadly tool.
A sniper's most deadly tool is the ability to consistently create space for himself. So far, Kreider has not displayed that.


Last edited by chosen: 10-01-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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Old
10-01-2013, 04:04 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Since 2nd year pro is not enough data to you, what is enough data to judge a player? My patience ends after this season.

Are you disappointed in Kreider's current abilities?
I have more patience than 49 total NHL games that count, sandwiched around a lockout...technically per the CBA he is a 2nd year pro but the actual game numbers don't support that in his evolution or lack thereof.

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10-01-2013, 04:13 PM
  #330
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Fast is absolutely pumped about making the team. Hopefully, he keeps it up because sending him down a few games in would be a shot right in the confidence.

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10-01-2013, 04:22 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Fast is absolutely pumped about making the team. Hopefully, he keeps it up because sending him down a few games in would be a shot right in the confidence.
But at it stands, Fast is going to be fighting not to be the first cut. He may only have one game--since Calahan may very well be back next Tuesday vs LA--to "prove" he deserves to stay. And I'm sure he knows it. I don't think his confidence will be affected by getting sent down, if that's the coaching staff's decision.

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10-01-2013, 04:26 PM
  #332
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Maybe, if you want to be safe about it and keep veterans. But the obvious alternative is to simply bench Pyatt when Callahan returns.

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10-01-2013, 04:29 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Maybe, if you want to be safe about it and keep veterans. But the obvious alternative is to simply bench Pyatt when Callahan returns.
The only obvious thing here is we have no idea what we have in Fast. Pyatt, despite being far from spectacular is an NHL forward. We don't know if Fast is.

I think worrying about Fast's confidence is ridiculous. Just by making the squad, the team has shown a tremendous amount of confidence in him.

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10-01-2013, 04:35 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Maybe, if you want to be safe about it and keep veterans. But the obvious alternative is to simply bench Pyatt when Callahan returns.
I don't think Fast--or any prospect--has an ego that fragile. And if they do, then chances are they won't be in high level professional hockey for very long.

Coaches have players they are comfortable with. I really don't think Pyatt is a) that bad and b) his role is so pivotal on the team that keeping him on the roster will be a defining moment in this season.

Fast will find his place in the NHL. It may take a couple of months in the minors to find it. I don't think he will be ruined by the experience or that the team will sink without him.

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10-01-2013, 04:50 PM
  #335
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AV was on with Michael Kay. He was asked about Kreider. AV said the Rangers want Kreider to play in all situations. PK. PP. Major minutes. Kreider understood there are areas of his game which need work. He knows he can be better.

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/newyork/play?id=9756020

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10-01-2013, 04:51 PM
  #336
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kreiders a bust

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10-01-2013, 04:51 PM
  #337
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I wish I knew what number Fast was going to be wearing. He was 31 in the pre season yet the Rangers twitter mentioned that he had a 12 on his helmet in practice today. The official website still says 31. I'm so confused.

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Old
10-01-2013, 05:00 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dactyl View Post
kreiders a bust
I do think it's a possibility. Not yet, but I am starting to get worried.

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Old
10-01-2013, 05:08 PM
  #339
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I haven't seen it on the pages I've scanned - do we have a sense yet of the line combos for Thursday?

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10-01-2013, 05:16 PM
  #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
I do think it's a possibility. Not yet, but I am starting to get worried.
hes still really young. also coming out of college is a major adjustment for those players compared to those who step out of the ohl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Kreider is still very raw. I think he needs a full season in the AHL. I remember when Canadiens fan were ready to give up on Pacioretty at 22. He sure made them eat his words, and I have a feeling Kreider can definitely do that as well.
this is a very good point

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10-01-2013, 05:27 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by mti79 View Post
I wish I knew what number Fast was going to be wearing. He was 31 in the pre season yet the Rangers twitter mentioned that he had a 12 on his helmet in practice today. The official website still says 31. I'm so confused.
it's 12. it's on Blueshirts United

i'm just wondering why Brian Boyle is 3C again...

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10-01-2013, 05:30 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by FultonReed View Post
it's 12. it's on Blueshirts United

i'm just wondering why Brian Boyle is 3C again...
dont worry beavs will play himself off the top line soon enough

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10-01-2013, 06:06 PM
  #343
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Originally Posted by FultonReed View Post
it's 12. it's on Blueshirts United

i'm just wondering why Brian Boyle is 3C again...
Thanks. I saw that but then there is a line that says it "was assigned" to him so I don't know if he'll change it if given the chance. Sigh... Maybe I'll have to wait on ordering the jersey and just rock my Girardi jersey.

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10-02-2013, 09:48 AM
  #344
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Here were today’s lines and defense pairs:

Brad Richards-Derek Stepan-Rick Nash
Benoit Pouilot-Derick Brassard-Mats Zuccarello
Taylor Pyatt-Brian Boyle-Jesper Fast (who is now wearing No. 12)
J.T. Miller-Dominic Moore-Derek Dorsett/Arron Asham

Ryan McDonagh-Dan Girardi
Marc Staal-Michael Del Zotto
John Moore-Anton Stralman

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Old
10-02-2013, 09:50 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
Here were today’s lines and defense pairs:

Brad Richards-Derek Stepan-Rick Nash
Benoit Pouilot-Derick Brassard-Mats Zuccarello
Taylor Pyatt-Brian Boyle-Jesper Fast (who is now wearing No. 12)
J.T. Miller-Dominic Moore-Derek Dorsett/Arron Asham

Ryan McDonagh-Dan Girardi
Marc Staal-Michael Del Zotto
John Moore-Anton Stralman
If that's true, it most likely means Fast has 1 game or so to play. Callahan is a RW.

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10-02-2013, 09:53 AM
  #346
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The two power play units:

Staal-Richards
Miller-Stepan-Nash (presumably Callahan will go in Miller’s spot when healthy)

and

Del Zotto-Girardi
Pouilot-Brassard-Zuccarello

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10-02-2013, 09:53 AM
  #347
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
If that's true, it most likely means Fast has 1 game or so to play. Callahan is a RW.
As per Andrew Gross

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Old
10-02-2013, 09:55 AM
  #348
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Switch Boyle & Miller please.

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10-02-2013, 09:56 AM
  #349
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Switch Boyle & Miller please.
Or Miller and Pyatt

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Old
10-02-2013, 09:59 AM
  #350
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Switch Boyle & Miller please.
Switching Miller and Pyatt would be more prudent.

As long as you ignore Boyle making you feel

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