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Hal Gill signed to a one-year contract worth $700,000 (Oct. 1)

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Old
10-01-2013, 08:56 PM
  #251
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
I love how you guys completely ignored the gist of my comment... that it has already been decided that Gill will fail and not help the team if there are injuries and the depth is needed... that somehow we can cut through the actual facts and just rely on opinion as if it has already occurred and hang the ********.
There is no reason to believe Gill is going to be successful on this team with Lavi coaching.

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Also, I do believe it is a it... quite a bit naïve to believe that we who follow the sport are as knowledgeable as those who not only grew up with the sport as a way of life but also played the game at the highest level and been in the front office/leadership of Organizations for decades, and in some cases longer than some of us have been alive... If you want to take the simplistic view and believe that it is easy and we on the outside can do it better, then please go ahead... but excuse some of us who won't buy it.
Find where I said I know as much about the sport as Holmgren. Now you're missing the gist of what I'm saying.

There are things in sports that don't take a great advanced knowledge to understand. Understanding that Gill is not well suited for Lavi's system is most definitely one of those things.

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Sure they make mistakes, but hindsight is always 20/20 and achievements are often ignored... One GM out of 30 each season wins the Cup while 29+ fail... some never win it over a career... so IMO the all or nothing bar of success is BS... and a GM can fail quite a bit and still be a success -- unlike us fans -- or are you saying that the owners who continue to hire GMs who make mistakes are less knowledgeable that we are also? Home screws up... all GMs screw up... all I'm saying here that Homer believes that Gill is good as a hire on his team... and as of now, a day before the season starts, there is nothing to say that he is incorrect... Just give him a chance to be proven wrong and stop making a mountain out of a minor signing with little downside with so much other things yet to be tested. And I go on record as saying that I cannot GM better than Homer or any other NHL GM; there I've said it. LOL
I'm not making a mountain out of a little signing. No, the little signing is just another pebble on the growing mountain of complaints that can be leveled against the organization.

If anything, everyone who's flipped out at the people who fail to lovingly embrace this signing or at those who look at it with a wider view of the organization and its past choices are making a mountain out of a mole hill. We at least have a laundry list of reasons to be concerned. The list of reasons to be pleased with this signing or expect Gill to do well is much shorter.

Like I've said, the signing on its own is nothing. As part of the big picture, not really. It's indicative of years of failure at developing defensive prospects, of Homer gutting the prospect pool, and of the organization making some puzzling personnel decisions/evaluations when giving Lavi players. At the end of the day, those are the conditions created by the organization that necessitate inking Gill.

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10-01-2013, 09:15 PM
  #252
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So, Gill got signed. Someone tell me how he fits onto the team? Last I checked, Gill can't skate enough to play in an uptempo offense. Hopefully, he doesn't see the ice that much if ever.

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10-01-2013, 09:16 PM
  #253
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Beef's got this.

As I already said once several pages ago and once about a page after that, nobody is freaking out that we signed Gill. A lot of people think it'd indicative of larger problems and aren't a fan of it and are voicing those thoughts. Then a few select people are, themselves, freaking out and over exaggerating things by claiming everyone is freaking out about this signing when really nobody is. Voicing criticism isn't the same thing as freaking out no matter how dramatic you want to be.

The people being the drama queens are the ones that are actually saying other people are freaking out about it. This topic would have pretty much ended several pages ago if people defending the signing could just admit that it's indicative of larger problems and that it's not an ideal signing just like people like me and Beef have and are fine with admitting it's a minor signing.

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10-01-2013, 09:19 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Beef's got this.

As I already said once several pages ago and once about a page after that, nobody is freaking out that we signed Gill. A lot of people think it'd indicative of larger problems and aren't a fan of it and are voicing those thoughts. Then a few select people are, themselves, freaking out and over exaggerating things by claiming everyone is freaking out about this signing when really nobody is. Voicing criticism isn't the same thing as freaking out no matter how dramatic you want to be.

The people being the drama queens are the ones that are actually saying other people are freaking out about it.
There are certainly people freaking out about this. Look at the first handful of posts directly following the news. I believe one of the first was something like "**** this." Another was along the lines of "there aren't enough facepalms in the world for this." So there surely are people overreacting to this.

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10-01-2013, 09:21 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Sawdalite View Post
I love how you guys completely ignored the gist of my comment... that it has already been decided that Gill will fail and not help the team if there are injuries and the depth is needed... that somehow we can cut through the actual facts and just rely on opinion as if it has already occurred and hang the ********.

Also, I do believe it is a it... quite a bit naïve to believe that we who follow the sport are as knowledgeable as those who not only grew up with the sport as a way of life but also played the game at the highest level and been in the front office/leadership of Organizations for decades, and in some cases longer than some of us have been alive... If you want to take the simplistic view and believe that it is easy and we on the outside can do it better, then please go ahead... but excuse some of us who won't buy it.

Sure they make mistakes, but hindsight is always 20/20 and achievements are often ignored... One GM out of 30 each season wins the Cup while 29+ fail... some never win it over a career... so IMO the all or nothing bar of success is BS... and a GM can fail quite a bit and still be a success -- unlike us fans -- or are you saying that the owners who continue to hire GMs who make mistakes are less knowledgeable that we are also? Home screws up... all GMs screw up... all I'm saying here that Homer believes that Gill is good as a hire on his team... and as of now, a day before the season starts, there is nothing to say that he is incorrect... Just give him a chance to be proven wrong and stop making a mountain out of a minor signing with little downside with so much other things yet to be tested. And I go on record as saying that I cannot GM better than Homer or any other NHL GM; there I've said it. LOL
Nobody has said they can do a better job then Homer so this is, again, someone claiming others are going crazy when that person himself is the one exaggerating things. I don't know how legitimate criticism of a signing equates to us saying we can do better then Homer at his job in your mind.

As far as Gill goes, the chances that he'll be useful in the system Laviolette runs are about as high as Colorado winning the Cup. Meaning it's technically possible but there's no reason to believe it will happen.

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10-01-2013, 09:23 PM
  #256
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I think its 49.
**** you are right.

Time to prepare myself for a 35+ defender being added for a 4th round pick.

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10-01-2013, 09:24 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
There are certainly people freaking out about this. Look at the first handful of posts directly following the news. I believe one of the first was something like "**** this." Another was along the lines of "there aren't enough facepalms in the world for this." So there surely are people overreacting to this.
You're being a little too literal and serious yourself if you're taking every comment at face value and are going to react to every idiot out there.

Let me amend what I said. Nobody actively involved in this discussion in this topic that is against the Gill signing or is criticizing it actively has thought the world is ending because of it.

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10-01-2013, 10:11 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
You're being a little too literal and serious yourself if you're taking every comment at face value and are going to react to every idiot out there.

Let me amend what I said. Nobody actively involved in this discussion in this topic that is against the Gill signing or is criticizing it actively has thought the world is ending because of it.
Yeah, I don't think he said anyone was saying that.

I think the point is that anything more critical than "meh" is a bit of an overreaction to the signing, and attempts to put it on par with Shelley (multi-year, bigger $$), Kubina (trade), or other such moves are a stretch. Some of the comments (though certainly not all) seem critical for the sake of being critical.

This is a one-year, league-minimum-level depth signing. He's the 8th defenseman at best, and it isn't clear that Gervais wouldn't be called up to play over him if certain players are injured. If necessary, he can be serviceable for 10-12 minutes a night in a limited role for a short period of time. That's about it. It is low-cost, low-risk, low-reward move.

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10-01-2013, 10:20 PM
  #259
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I just find it really sad that we don't have a single prospect who is superior to present-day Hal Gill (Edit: Or super-gimped Mez). It's also sad that Philly has pretty much been the retirement home for old D-men on their way out for the last few years.

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10-01-2013, 11:08 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I just find it really sad that we don't have a single prospect who is superior to present-day Hal Gill (Edit: Or super-gimped Mez). It's also sad that Philly has pretty much been the retirement home for old D-men on their way out for the last few years.
ill agree that its sad. you can pretty much thank Chris Pronger for that.

again, i blame buffalo. risto could be playing for us. damn winning streak last year.

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10-01-2013, 11:10 PM
  #261
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ill agree that its sad. you can pretty much thank Chris Pronger for that.

again, i blame buffalo. risto could be playing for us. damn winning streak last year.
Chris Pronger made us trade for him and set the asking price?

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10-01-2013, 11:31 PM
  #262
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again, i blame buffalo. risto could be playing for us. damn winning streak last year.
Didn't the Flyers have Morin higher than Ristolainen anyway? I'm trying to remember back to that grainy image of their big board.

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10-01-2013, 11:35 PM
  #263
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People will complain about anything

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10-01-2013, 11:36 PM
  #264
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Didn't the Flyers have Morin higher than Ristolainen anyway? I'm trying to remember back to that grainy image of their big board.
Yeah it was something like this
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1481193

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1. MacKinnon
2. Jones
3. Drouin
4. Lindholm
5. Barkov
6. Morin
7. Mueller
8. Zadorov
9. Nurse
10. Ristolainen
11. Monahan
12. Morrissey
13. Gauthier
14. Horvat
15. Lazar

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10-01-2013, 11:37 PM
  #265
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again, i blame buffalo. risto could be playing for us. damn winning streak last year.
What? If we'd tanked properly when we were 3rd last, we could've had JONES.

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10-01-2013, 11:42 PM
  #266
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What? If we'd tanked properly when we were 3rd last, we could've had JONES.
I'm just imagining what would have happened around here had we been picking sixth, as it looked like we might at one point.

1. COL - Nathan MacKinnon
2. FLA - Alexander Barkov, Jr.
3. TBL - Jonathan Drouin
4. NSH - S. Jones
5. CAR - Elias Lindholm

"With the sixth overall selection in the 2013 NHL entry draft, the Philadelphia Flyers select not Darnell Nurse, not Nikita Zadorov, not Rasmus Ristolainen, but Samuel Morin..."

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10-01-2013, 11:47 PM
  #267
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What? If we'd tanked properly when we were 3rd last, we could've had JONES.
Ugh, we can't do ANYTHING right.

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10-01-2013, 11:54 PM
  #268
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I'm just imagining what would have happened around here had we been picking sixth, as it looked like we might at one point.

1. COL - Nathan MacKinnon
2. FLA - Alexander Barkov, Jr.
3. TBL - Jonathan Drouin
4. NSH - S. Jones
5. CAR - Elias Lindholm

"With the sixth overall selection in the 2013 NHL entry draft, the Philadelphia Flyers select not Darnell Nurse, not Nikita Zadorov, not Rasmus Ristolainen, but Samuel Morin..."
That would have beyond infuriated me. That's something that would have made me re-think my faith in...things.

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10-02-2013, 12:21 AM
  #269
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That would have beyond infuriated me. That's something that would have made me re-think my faith in...things.
After the camp/preseason he had I might not be as mad at this point. But at the time of the draft, yeah I wouldn't have been happy.

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10-02-2013, 09:13 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
There are certainly people freaking out about this. Look at the first handful of posts directly following the news. I believe one of the first was something like "**** this." Another was along the lines of "there aren't enough facepalms in the world for this." So there surely are people overreacting to this.
The facepalm comment was mine and I stand behind it. Overreaction? I disagree. It was an appropriate response to Holmgren once again signing an aging, slow, big defenseman who is not a good fit with the coach's vision. It's not a lot of money, but he might as well have thrown $700K in the toilet.

Perhaps you can share with the class how you feel Hal Gill on the blue line makes the Flyers a better team. I'd really like to know.

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10-02-2013, 09:23 AM
  #271
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Perhaps you can share with the class how you feel Hal Gill on the blue line makes the Flyers a better team. I'd really like to know.
In my mind, the very limited "pro-Gill" case basically comes down to this: If enough guys get hurt that the Flyers have to go 8/9 deep on the blueline, who would you rather have on the ice, Gill or Alt/Lauridsen/other Phantoms call-up?

In that situation, I think I'd rather have Gill dress--assuming that the team is still competing for a playoff spot, etc.

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10-02-2013, 09:28 AM
  #272
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In my mind, the very limited "pro-Gill" case basically comes down to this: If enough guys get hurt that the Flyers have to go 8/9 deep on the blueline, who would you rather have on the ice, Gill or Alt/Lauridsen/other Phantoms call-up?

In that situation, I think I'd rather have Gill dress--assuming that the team is still competing for a playoff spot, etc.
I'd rather have the young guy who might have improved their game some between now and that time. Gill is probably only going to get worse.

We have one immobile goalie...having an immobile defenseman isn't going to help much either. I do not look forward to watching guys skate around both of them.

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10-02-2013, 09:33 AM
  #273
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Why would anybody want a prospect/young player sitting out every night? Its not if the prospects are better than Gill, are they better than Mesz/Gus/Gross.

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10-02-2013, 09:34 AM
  #274
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Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
In my mind, the very limited "pro-Gill" case basically comes down to this: If enough guys get hurt that the Flyers have to go 8/9 deep on the blueline, who would you rather have on the ice, Gill or Alt/Lauridsen/other Phantoms call-up?

In that situation, I think I'd rather have Gill dress--assuming that the team is still competing for a playoff spot, etc.
See I don't know if that's true though. Gill struggled mightly the last season or 2 and preseason was the teams worse constant defender. Honestly, can't say with a straight face Gill would make me more comfortable. He has been extremely bad. Only so much 1100 games can give someone.

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10-02-2013, 09:36 AM
  #275
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The facepalm comment was mine and I stand behind it. Overreaction? I disagree. It was an appropriate response to Holmgren once again signing an aging, slow, big defenseman who is not a good fit with the coach's vision. It's not a lot of money, but he might as well have thrown $700K in the toilet.

Perhaps you can share with the class how you feel Hal Gill on the blue line makes the Flyers a better team. I'd really like to know.
Didn't you get all pissed off over the possiblity of the Flyers having to waive Gervais or trading him for nothing a few weeks ago & even went as far as calling him an asset?

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