HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers Final Roster

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-02-2013, 11:05 AM
  #351
Antithesis
Member Ryan Hollweg?
 
Antithesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,606
vCash: 500
NYR should have Miller on the 3rd PK pair, get him that experience in a less pressured role.

Moore-Dorsett

Stepan-Nash

Boyle-Miller

Antithesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:06 AM
  #352
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
Here were today’s lines and defense pairs:

Brad Richards-Derek Stepan-Rick Nash
Benoit Pouilot-Derick Brassard-Mats Zuccarello
Taylor Pyatt-Brian Boyle-Jesper Fast (who is now wearing No. 12)
J.T. Miller-Dominic Moore-Derek Dorsett/Arron Asham

Ryan McDonagh-Dan Girardi
Marc Staal-Michael Del Zotto
John Moore-Anton Stralman
Swap Miller and Boyle and put Cally in Pyatt's spot when he comes back and I am good with this lineup.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:09 AM
  #353
Calad
Section 422
 
Calad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 1,500
vCash: 500
Everyone assumed Boyle would be playing 4th line wing minutes. I said all along that Boyle will be our #3C, it fits perfectly into AVs system, and you guys said i was nuts

Calad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:09 AM
  #354
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Swap Miller and Boyle and put Cally in Pyatt's spot when he comes back and I am good with this lineup.
Even though Callahan is a RW? And Boyle is a better/more responsible center than Miller at this point? Yea, makes sense.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:10 AM
  #355
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Switching Miller and Pyatt would be more prudent.

As long as you ignore Boyle making you feel
Disagree Pyatt has more third line skills than Boyle. Heck you probably have more 3rd line skills than Boyle. Miller is not a 4th line player; makes too many defensive mistakes. But definitely plays with jam and can score. So, as I said switch Miller and Boyle and plug Cally in on that third line to either replace Fast or Pyatt depending on who AV likes more.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:11 AM
  #356
Crazed Beaver
Registered User
 
Crazed Beaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Swamp
Country: United States
Posts: 921
vCash: 500
Boyle & Pyatt on our third line........

Crazed Beaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:14 AM
  #357
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thugice View Post
Boyle & Pyatt on our third line........
Callahan and Hagelin being hurt, and Kreider being ****, have a lot to do with that.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:15 AM
  #358
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Disagree Pyatt has more third line skills than Boyle. Heck you probably have more 3rd line skills than Boyle. Miller is not a 4th line player; makes too many defensive mistakes. But definitely plays with jam and can score. So, as I said switch Miller and Boyle and plug Cally in on that third line to either replace Fast or Pyatt depending on who AV likes more.
What you fail to understand, time and time again, is that "3rd line skills" mean different things to different people/coaches.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:21 AM
  #359
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calad View Post
Everyone assumed Boyle would be playing 4th line wing minutes. I said all along that Boyle will be our #3C, it fits perfectly into AVs system, and you guys said i was nuts
I don't know if you're nuts or not. I hoped AV would understand that if you put Boyle on the third line you are counting on only two lines to produce goals which means you will not be able to exploit a team's 3rd defensive pairing.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:22 AM
  #360
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 23,587
vCash: 500
And once again I'll throw up if Boyle is on the top 3 lines. The 3rd line needs to have some semblance of offense. I hate how coaches don't trust young players at all and would rather put in the KNOWN mediocre player rather than a young player with potential at 3C. Sickening. I thought this garbage was over with Torts. This is the main reason I want Boyle gone, he is useful on the 4th line and PK but coaches use him incorrectly anyway.

SnowblindNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:23 AM
  #361
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Even though Callahan is a RW? And Boyle is a better/more responsible center than Miller at this point? Yea, makes sense.
If Cally is unable to play the left side then you sit Fast and play him on the right. I see no reason to ever play Boyle on any line but the 4th. You cannot win with two 4th lines and any line Boyle is on effectively becomes a 4th line even if they get 3rd line minutes.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:24 AM
  #362
Crazed Beaver
Registered User
 
Crazed Beaver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Swamp
Country: United States
Posts: 921
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Callahan and Hagelin being hurt, and Kreider being ****, have a lot to do with that.
I understand the injuries, I'm just tired of these jags. Spot duty for pyatt and a fourth line roll for Boyle is all I want to see of these guys. I'd rather watch our kids, So much more enjoyable to watch.

Crazed Beaver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:25 AM
  #363
Antithesis
Member Ryan Hollweg?
 
Antithesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,606
vCash: 500
Some of the third lines we've fielded over the years include Wolski-Christensen-Zuccarello, Avery-Stepan-Fedotenko, Nieminen-Betts-Ward, ect.

It's frequently a spare parts line. Any consistent assortments we can get this year would be a bonus.

Antithesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:26 AM
  #364
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
And once again I'll throw up if Boyle is on the top 3 lines. The 3rd line needs to have some semblance of offense. I hate how coaches don't trust young players at all and would rather put in the KNOWN mediocre player rather than a young player with potential at 3C. Sickening. I thought this garbage was over with Torts. This is the main reason I want Boyle gone, he is useful on the 4th line and PK but coaches use him incorrectly anyway.
How many NHL coaches will it take to disagree with you before you start questioning your own opinion?

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:28 AM
  #365
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,307
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by chosen View Post
His "rare" physical tools have never shown up on the scoresheet. I judge by results, not by how something looks.

Sometimes teams trade players too soon. Sometimes, too late.

He may become a player. So far, he is absolutely not one.

I cut him slack because he has some tools. Sometimes I think he would be better off as a great defensive forward.
That's not really true.

He led the Eagles in scoring when they won the NCAA title. He was one of the leading goal scorers on both USA WJC teams. He was one of the top scorers for the Rangers in the '11 playoffs.

Really the only disappointing "year" he's had was last year.

What Kreider has had in abundance is disappointing "shifts" and occasionally even "games". At BC there were long stretches where he would be completely invisible, gliding around the ice aimlessly in the offensive zone. He didn't do it regularly until last year.

Which is a huge concern.

I wrote this in February and I think it still applies:

Quote:
I guess I just don't buy the "it's in his head" argument. This isn't about a guy nervously shooting the puck into the goalies chest or making a tentative play in the defensive zone because he is afraid to make a mistake. This is about him not playing at the intensity level the coach wants to see. Forget finishing a check, just keep your damn feet moving. And even if that does not END UP being "Kreiders game" he needs to do that NOW.

The bottom line for me? The fact that a smart, hard working, extraordinarily fast and extremely strong young man can't seem to summon 5 minutes of noticeable skating is a little frightening.
I've never seen a motivated, skating Kreider not succeed. I've never seen a motivated and skating Kreider not produce.

I am not concerned about his gifts. I am very concerned about his motivation.

McRanger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:28 AM
  #366
SnowblindNYR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 23,587
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Even though Callahan is a RW? And Boyle is a better/more responsible center than Miller at this point? Yea, makes sense.
Miller at least isn't a slug who has no potential for scoring. Boyle shouldn't be a 3C on a good team EVER. So disappointing. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.

SnowblindNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:30 AM
  #367
Antithesis
Member Ryan Hollweg?
 
Antithesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Miller at least isn't a slug who has no potential for scoring. Boyle shouldn't be a 3C on a good team EVER. So disappointing. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
We'll see. Miller hasn't scored 33 goals over the course of 2 NHL seasons. Take away last season and Boyle's productivity is well in line with an above average 3rd liners.

I like Miller but too many on this board either don't do their homework of just view Boyle with an outstanding bias.

Antithesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:32 AM
  #368
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
Miller at least isn't a slug who has no potential for scoring. Boyle shouldn't be a 3C on a good team EVER. So disappointing. Meet the new boss same as the old boss.
Yet another coach who would rather take the known defensive asset over stuffing the top 9 with unknown kids in hopes of offensive riches. Go figure.

Thats how NHL coaches keep their jobs, and why the peanut gallery is just that.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:32 AM
  #369
Bardof425*
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,028
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
What you fail to understand, time and time again, is that "3rd line skills" mean different things to different people/coaches.
Listen. I fail to understand nothing. I have different opinions about how a third line should operate. I am a firm believer that your third line needs to be somewhat of an offensive threat and therefore the center cannot be a slug who has made 5 or 10 good passes in the offensive zone in his entire career (and that may be generous). As I'm sure you've done many times on this blog, I disagree with the coach. And I disagree specifically if he sees his third line as defense only "checking unit". The best checking lines can stymie the other team's top players and threaten the opponent when in the O zone. Winning teams often have three lines that "can" score.

Bardof425* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:35 AM
  #370
Antithesis
Member Ryan Hollweg?
 
Antithesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,606
vCash: 500
It's a differing philosophy, but to call Miller an unknown kid whose sole point is to be an offensive player is false, just like claiming Boyle is offensively inept is also false.

NYR drafted Miller to become a two way player. Boyle is already a two way player. I like Miller better on the wing and by the look of it, so far Vignealt does as well.

Moore is a better overall checking center than Boyle, in many ways, but AV sees he has played well with Dorsett and wants to keep that going.

Antithesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:35 AM
  #371
3rdlineglory
Korsi Kevin
 
3rdlineglory's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Mahopac, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 450
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Listen. I fail to understand nothing. I have different opinions about how a third line should operate. I am a firm believer that your third line needs to be somewhat of an offensive threat and therefore the center cannot be a slug who has made 5 or 10 good passes in the offensive zone in his entire career (and that may be generous). As I'm sure you've done many times on this blog, I disagree with the coach. And I disagree specifically if he sees his third line as defense only "checking unit". The best checking lines can stymie the other team's top players and threaten the opponent when in the O zone. Winning teams often have three lines that "can" score.
AV is working with what he's got. Cally and Hags are injured and the kids didn't really impress in camp. Not to mention the Rangers have limited cap space.

3rdlineglory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:36 AM
  #372
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 20,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
Here were today’s lines and defense pairs:

Brad Richards-Derek Stepan-Rick Nash
Benoit Pouilot-Derick Brassard-Mats Zuccarello
Taylor Pyatt-Brian Boyle-Jesper Fast (who is now wearing No. 12)
J.T. Miller-Dominic Moore-Derek Dorsett/Arron Asham

Ryan McDonagh-Dan Girardi
Marc Staal-Michael Del Zotto
John Moore-Anton Stralman
Would swap Pyatt and Miller. Boyle is the 3rd best guy on the line offensively, which means he can keep things simple and just crash the net and create space for the other two.

Richards at wing. Another nail in the coffin.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:36 AM
  #373
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 18,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Listen. I fail to understand nothing. I have different opinions about how a third line should operate. I am a firm believer that your third line needs to be somewhat of an offensive threat and therefore the center cannot be a slug who has made 5 or 10 good passes in the offensive zone in his entire career (and that may be generous). As I'm sure you've done many times on this blog, I disagree with the coach. And I disagree specifically if he sees his third line as defense only "checking unit". The best checking lines can stymie the other team's top players and threaten the opponent when in the O zone. Winning teams often have three lines that "can" score.
Im sure every coach in the world wants 3 lines that can score. The problem is that most teams don't have the soldiers to carry that out. This Rangers squad, especially with the injuries (and even without them), certainly do not.

So, what Tortorella and now Vigneault realize is that plugging Boyle in the 3C spot is the safest choice possible. Unlike you, they don't live in some sort of alternate reality where putting anyone but Boyle in that spot will instantly lead to offense.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:37 AM
  #374
RGY
Kreid or Die
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,710
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
NYR should have Miller on the 3rd PK pair, get him that experience in a less pressured role.

Moore-Dorsett

Stepan-Nash

Boyle-Miller
Nash on the PK? That has to be a typo. He is one of our worst defensive forwards, if not, the worst.

RGY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 11:40 AM
  #375
Antithesis
Member Ryan Hollweg?
 
Antithesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 20,606
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Nash on the PK? That has to be a typo. He is one of our worst defensive forwards, if not, the worst.
I like having one big offeensive threat on the PK lines at all times. It's one of the reasons I like it when Torts had Gaborik play some PK.

Heres why; it's not just about how good they are defensively, it's about the opposing team's mentality. If it's guys like Betts and Ortmeyer out there all the time, opposing dmen are not afraid. They have to move the puck around a lot, but they will take every inch towards the net you give them.

With a big offensive threat out there, opposing dmen will think twice about pinching. They might fumble the puck and give an opportunity the other way. Even better, an opposing coach might think twice about going with 4 forwards.

We used to have TJ Trevelyan on the PK and his #1 job was the puck hawk and look for breakaways.

Antithesis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:02 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2016 All Rights Reserved.