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Old
10-02-2013, 11:42 AM
  #376
azaloum90
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Would swap Pyatt and Miller. Boyle is the 3rd best guy on the line offensively, which means he can keep things simple and just crash the net and create space for the other two.

Richards at wing. Another nail in the coffin.
And Staal+MDZ is a garbage line... McD should be playing with MDZ, Staal with Girardi

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10-02-2013, 11:43 AM
  #377
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Could go 3 ways: Swap Miller Boyle, Swap Miller Pyatt or Boyle on LW, Miller, Fast. One of these is better than what the reality is.

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10-02-2013, 11:46 AM
  #378
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You could also swap Fast and Dorsett and simply flip the lines.

While I like what Moore has done with Dorsett, I think Miller-Moore-Fast has some nice offensive potential.

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10-02-2013, 11:47 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Would swap Pyatt and Miller. Boyle is the 3rd best guy on the line offensively, which means he can keep things simple and just crash the net and create space for the other two.

Richards at wing. Another nail in the coffin.
if they use Miller , Moore, Dorsett as a 3rd line that's fine........Boyle, Pyatt, Fast as a 4th so less minutes

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10-02-2013, 11:48 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
You could also swap Fast and Dorsett and simply flip the lines.

While I like what Moore has done with Dorsett, I think Miller-Moore-Fast has some nice offensive potential.
AV has said he wants to keep pairings together.

Stepan-Nash
Brassard-MZA
Boyle-Pyatt (ew)
Moore-Dorsett

That leaves Richards, Pouliot, Miller and Fast.

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10-02-2013, 11:49 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
How many NHL coaches will it take to disagree with you before you start questioning your own opinion?
So far it's the offensively braindead Torts and we haven't seen AV coach a real game yet. What does Boyle bring offensively? Nothing. He just slows down any line and makes it into **** offensively. We need at least some scoring threat from the 3rd line to be a good offensive team.

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10-02-2013, 11:49 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Some of the third lines we've fielded over the years include Wolski-Christensen-Zuccarello, Avery-Stepan-Fedotenko, Nieminen-Betts-Ward, ect.

It's frequently a spare parts line. Any consistent assortments we can get this year would be a bonus.
Did we win with those spare parts third lines? What was our third line when we won 19 years ago? Nemchinov centering either Larmer/Matteau on the left side or Tikannen/Noonan on the right side. A little different than the combos you threw out.

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10-02-2013, 11:51 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
We'll see. Miller hasn't scored 33 goals over the course of 2 NHL seasons. Take away last season and Boyle's productivity is well in line with an above average 3rd liners.

I like Miller but too many on this board either don't do their homework of just view Boyle with an outstanding bias.
So you're taking away his most recent season but are keeping his fluke season from a couple of years ago?

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10-02-2013, 11:55 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
So you're taking away his most recent season but are keeping his fluke season from a couple of years ago?
They are both outlier seasons, in my estimation.

I think his 11-15-26 season is pretty standard Brian Boyle. I think 2-3-5 in 38 games is also a season that isn't representative of his abilities.

Now, is 26 points 3rd line production? Technically, yes it is. Especially for a good defensive player. He was 211th amongst forwards in scoring in 2011-2012. That's a #7 to #8 forward, statistically speaking.

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10-02-2013, 11:57 AM
  #385
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Isn't AV known for using his 3rd line as matchup/defensive specialist unit that gets most of the d zone starts? IE the Malholtra line.

Makes sense that Pyatt-Boyle is the foundation for that (right now) than Miller-Moore, IMO. Say what you want about the guy but Boyle right now is the Rangers best defensive center and the most consistent face off guy. Moore could take that role if he falters, but it seems clear that AV is giving Boyle the benefit of the doubt there. Miller also has potential in that role but he has not shown enough yet defensively.

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Old
10-02-2013, 11:57 AM
  #386
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Can someone please help me understand why Girardi is practincing on the second power play unit and McDonagh is not on any?

I gave AV the benefit of the doubt in pre-season, but unless Girardi magically changes, he better be off any pp unit within the first month...

He and Del Zotto on the points for the 2nd unit.

I can see it now. Shot wide, around the boards and out. Rinse and repeat from either side.

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10-02-2013, 12:00 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Did we win with those spare parts third lines? What was our third line when we won 19 years ago? Nemchinov centering either Larmer/Matteau on the left side or Tikannen/Noonan on the right side. A little different than the combos you threw out.
And you havent let the fact we dont have anywhere near that type of depth now effect your thinking in the least. A 3rd line centered by Miller and having Fast on the RW is just as likely to create some offense as it is to fall on its face completely. I dont think you'll find many coaches at all, especially ones that want to keep their jobs, willing to take that risk night in and night out.

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10-02-2013, 12:02 PM
  #388
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Can someone please help me understand why Girardi is practincing on the second power play unit and McDonagh is not on any?

I gave AV the benefit of the doubt in pre-season, but unless Girardi magically changes, he better be off any pp unit within the first month...

He and Del Zotto on the points for the 2nd unit.

I can see it now. Shot wide, around the boards and out. Rinse and repeat from either side.
I have no idea. It's like putting Tim Gleason or Brooks Orpik on the power play. It makes no sense, and he has no offensive game at all. He isn't mobile enough to be a threat, and his only PP offense has come from being on the end of some amazing final passes.

We have two dmen that should be used purely for defense and on the PK. Staal and Girardi. We have dmen in Stralman and MDZ that should be used mostly on the power play, less on the PK. And we have two guys in Moore and McDonagh that are very solid in either role. Make it work.

Girardi on the power play is wasting minutes he could be spending avoiding goals against at even strength.

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10-02-2013, 12:02 PM
  #389
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Can someone please help me understand why Girardi is practincing on the second power play unit and McDonagh is not on any?

I gave AV the benefit of the doubt in pre-season, but unless Girardi magically changes, he better be off any pp unit within the first month...

He and Del Zotto on the points for the 2nd unit.

I can see it now. Shot wide, around the boards and out. Rinse and repeat from either side.
He probably wants a RHD. I think Stralman makes more sense. For obvious reason's.

I don't care how things look at the start of the year. AV's going to go through his trial/error and figure out what's what.

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10-02-2013, 12:04 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
We'll see. Miller hasn't scored 33 goals over the course of 2 NHL seasons. Take away last season and Boyle's productivity is well in line with an above average 3rd liners.

I like Miller but too many on this board either don't do their homework of just view Boyle with an outstanding bias.
What are you talking about? In Boyle's career he had two months where he produced offensively. That's it. And during those two months everything he threw at the net went in. He cannot see the ice; he cannot pass the puck; and he cannot finish his chances. Stop the madness.

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10-02-2013, 12:04 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
They are both outlier seasons, in my estimation.

I think his 11-15-26 season is pretty standard Brian Boyle. I think 2-3-5 in 38 games is also a season that isn't representative of his abilities.

Now, is 26 points 3rd line production? Technically, yes it is. Especially for a good defensive player. He was 211th amongst forwards in scoring in 2011-2012. That's a #7 to #8 forward, statistically speaking.
Boyle has periods where he is very productive offensively, but they come in huge bunches. He's been trending down the last two years. His stats look a lot better by him getting hot late in the season 2 seasons ago. I also don't think that Boyle is the type of player that fits into an AV team, a Torts team yeah. I therefore don't understand AV's decision, I think he just doesn't trust Miller yet.

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10-02-2013, 12:06 PM
  #392
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Originally Posted by 3rdlineglory View Post
AV is working with what he's got. Cally and Hags are injured and the kids didn't really impress in camp. Not to mention the Rangers have limited cap space.
ok, all I'm advocating is Miller on the 3rd line and Boyle on the 4th. The cap is not an issues with this allocation of resources.

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10-02-2013, 12:08 PM
  #393
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Like I've said, I never saw Pyatt as the kind of guy to fit in AV's system either, but he did when he was in Vancouver.

And I've also said, I like Moore better than Boyle at 3C. I'm already not a fan of the fact that AV would rather play Richards on the wing, a position he isn't at all suited for, over playing him at pivot on the third line. But I do understand his thinking.

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10-02-2013, 12:09 PM
  #394
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I have no idea. It's like putting Tim Gleason or Brooks Orpik on the power play. It makes no sense, and he has no offensive game at all. He isn't mobile enough to be a threat, and his only PP offense has come from being on the end of some amazing final passes.

We have two dmen that should be used purely for defense and on the PK. Staal and Girardi. We have dmen in Stralman and MDZ that should be used mostly on the power play, less on the PK. And we have two guys in Moore and McDonagh that are very solid in either role. Make it work.

Girardi on the power play is wasting minutes he could be spending avoiding goals against at even strength.
John Moore has a bomb. I just don't get it. You literally have 3 more viable options sitting in front of you.

If you want to go conservative, give McD the chance. If you want finesse, go with Stralman, if you want speed and a booming shot, go with Moore.

Girardi has a bomb of a shot with no accuracy, isn't very fast and really has little finesse when it comes to creativity and passing.

I love the guy, he's a complete warrior and a very steady #3/#2, but he is not Powerplay material.

John Moore should be firmly entrenched on the power play imo. Above Girardi and Del Zotto.

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10-02-2013, 12:11 PM
  #395
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
ok, all I'm advocating is Miller on the 3rd line and Boyle on the 4th. The cap is not an issues with this allocation of resources.
Yes, Miller, with his 4 points in 26 games last year, is clearly ready to take on the offensive load that you demand.

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10-02-2013, 12:13 PM
  #396
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Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord 5m
#NYR lines same today: Richards-Stepan-Nash Pouilot-Brassard-Zuccarello Pyatt-Boyle-Fast Miller-D. Moore-Dorsett.


Ugh this annoys me so much....swap Miller and Pyatt. I have no idea what Pyatt has done in the preseason to earn a spot on this team let alone be on the 3rd line.

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10-02-2013, 12:16 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by azaloum90 View Post
And Staal+MDZ is a garbage line... McD should be playing with MDZ, Staal with Girardi
why would you want this? Neither Staal or Girardi are especially mobile and both McD and MDZ are mobile. Split them up. McD and Girardi have been one of the best top pairs in hockey, why would you change that? Staal and MDZ compliment each other well. I don't get how this is even an argument by anyone...

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10-02-2013, 12:33 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Giglio NYR15 View Post
Andrew Gross ‏@AGrossRecord 5m
#NYR lines same today: Richards-Stepan-Nash Pouilot-Brassard-Zuccarello Pyatt-Boyle-Fast Miller-D. Moore-Dorsett.


Ugh this annoys me so much....swap Miller and Pyatt. I have no idea what Pyatt has done in the preseason to earn a spot on this team let alone be on the 3rd line.
better yet, swap Dorsett and Fast and make Moore's line #3. They can be a checking line with plenty of skill, and the 4th line can hopefully replicate how well they played in the PO's last year.

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10-02-2013, 12:35 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
John Moore has a bomb. I just don't get it. You literally have 3 more viable options sitting in front of you.

If you want to go conservative, give McD the chance. If you want finesse, go with Stralman, if you want speed and a booming shot, go with Moore.

Girardi has a bomb of a shot with no accuracy, isn't very fast and really has little finesse when it comes to creativity and passing.

I love the guy, he's a complete warrior and a very steady #3/#2, but he is not Powerplay material.

John Moore should be firmly entrenched on the power play imo. Above Girardi and Del Zotto.
ehhhhhhh. They should both get lots of PP time. DZ is a better passer but Moore has a much better shot. I do not agree with Girardi on the PP at all, his shot is good and low but it's SO easy to deflect that it's not even effective. Stralman should be getting all of Girardi's PP time.

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10-02-2013, 12:39 PM
  #400
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What are you talking about? In Boyle's career he had two months where he produced offensively. That's it. And during those two months everything he threw at the net went in. He cannot see the ice; he cannot pass the puck; and he cannot finish his chances. Stop the madness.
Madness? What madness?

AV wants to utilize his third-line as a defensive, checking line. That's where Boyle belongs. The third and fourth line aren't going to see a dramatic difference with TOI. If it helps you sleep at night, just consider one line to be 3A, and 3B.

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