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Old
10-02-2013, 09:45 AM
  #1
Jersey Girl
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Question about playoff seedings

OK I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but in today's Post Larry Brooks predicted the Senators and Bruins to finish first and second in their division, and then play in the Eastern Conference finals.

But that's not possible, correct? They would have to play each other in the Atlantic division finals, then play the winner of the Metropolitan division playoffs in the Eastern Conference finals...right?

I may be confused here...

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10-02-2013, 09:53 AM
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Tawnos
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Yeah, that isn't possible. One of the two teams would have to finish at best 4th in the Atlantic then crossover for the playoffs.

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10-02-2013, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
OK I don't have it in front of me at the moment, but in today's Post Larry Brooks predicted the Senators and Bruins to finish first and second in their division, and then play in the Eastern Conference finals.

But that's not possible, correct? They would have to play each other in the Atlantic division finals, then play the winner of the Metropolitan division playoffs in the Eastern Conference finals...right?

I may be confused here...
Not sure if that's how it works, my understanding is this:

Brooks picked the teams to finish:

1. Senators; 2. Penguins; 3. Bruins; 4. Red Wings; 5. Rangers; 6. Capitals; 7. Maple Leafs; 8. Blue Jackets

Senators over Blue Jackets
Penguins over Maple Leafs
Rangers over Capitals (division #2 and #3 play each other)
Bruins over Wings

At this point, my understanding is that things do not need to stay in division, and the final four teams are reseeded. As such it would be:

Senators vs. Rangers
Penguins vs. Bruins

Making a Sens-Bruins ECF possible.

If my understanding is wrong, someone let me know. IMO the NHL messed this up, should have tried harder to keep things in division if possible. I understand that there are scenarios (3 Atlantic teams and 1 Metro team in the second round, per se) where this wouldn't work. But in the case where it's 2 from one division and 2 from another, they should have to play each other.

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10-02-2013, 01:30 PM
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That's completely wrong.

The top 3 seeds in each division stay within their division. Only the next two teams in either division can crossover. The 2nd round is divisional and is not reseeded. If the Senators played the Blue Jackets in the first round, in your scenario, then they would play the Bruins in the 2nd round. The Penguins and the Rangers would play each other.

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10-02-2013, 01:57 PM
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Jersey Girl
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That's completely wrong.

The top 3 seeds in each division stay within their division. Only the next two teams in either division can crossover. The 2nd round is divisional and is not reseeded. If the Senators played the Blue Jackets in the first round, in your scenario, then they would play the Bruins in the 2nd round. The Penguins and the Rangers would play each other.
This is how I understand it as well. I suppose Brooksie didn't get the new playoff system through his thick head!

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10-02-2013, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
That's completely wrong.

The top 3 seeds in each division stay within their division. Only the next two teams in either division can crossover. The 2nd round is divisional and is not reseeded. If the Senators played the Blue Jackets in the first round, in your scenario, then they would play the Bruins in the 2nd round. The Penguins and the Rangers would play each other.
Your interpretaion is different than what I have read.

Top seeded division winner plays lowest wild card (COuld be outside division)
Second seeded division winner plays other wild card (also could be outside division)
2 vs 3 in each division play the other two series.

When that is done, they re-seed 1-4 and you can definately have a divisional conference final.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=685005


Last edited by Cliffy1814: 10-02-2013 at 02:03 PM. Reason: add link
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10-02-2013, 02:15 PM
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Both wild cards could come from the same division which means you could wind up with three teams from the same division in the 2nd round which obviously means you could have two from same division in the COnference Finals.

Met
1. Flyers
2. Pitt
3. Wash

NE
1. Det
2> Mon
3. Bos

WC
COlumbus (vs Pha)
NYR (vs Det)

NYR, Pha, Pitt, and Bos advance......COuld be a NYR vs Pitt ECF

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10-02-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Both wild cards could come from the same division which means you could wind up with three teams from the same division in the 2nd round which obviously means you could have two from same division in the COnference Finals.

Met
1. Flyers
2. Pitt
3. Wash

NE
1. Det
2> Mon
3. Bos

WC
COlumbus (vs Pha)
NYR (vs Det)

NYR, Pha, Pitt, and Bos advance......COuld be a NYR vs Pitt ECF
True, but for the first three teams in each division, they can only play each other in the DIVISIONAL final, not the conference final...only a wild card can play a divisional team in the conference final.

At least that's how I understood it.

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10-02-2013, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Your interpretaion is different than what I have read.

Top seeded division winner plays lowest wild card (COuld be outside division)
Second seeded division winner plays other wild card (also could be outside division)
2 vs 3 in each division play the other two series.

When that is done, they re-seed 1-4 and you can definately have a divisional conference final.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=685005
I think the bolded part is the point of contention here. I did not read anywhere in your link where they re-seed 1-4 in the conference after the first round.

In the second round they keep with the divisional format...though of course one of the wild cards could have already crossed divisions.

And you CAN have two divisional teams in the conference final, but not the two teams that finish 1-2 in the division...which is why Brooks is wrong.

Only a wild card can play in the divisional final against a team in their own division.


Last edited by Jersey Girl: 10-02-2013 at 02:50 PM.
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10-02-2013, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Jersey Girl View Post
I think the bolded part is the point of contention here. I did not read anywhere in your link where they re-seed 1-4 in the conference after the first round.

In the second round they keep with the divisional format...though of course one of the wild cards would have already crossed divisions.

And you CAN have two divisional teams in the conference final, but not the two teams that finish 1-2 in the division...which is why Brooks is wrong.

Only a wild card can play in the divisional final against a team in their own division.
That makes sense. A wildCard team can throw a wrench into things and force a divisional Conference Final, but short of that you'll basically have each division send one team to the Conference final.

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10-02-2013, 05:25 PM
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Either way it sounds like a stupid system.

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10-02-2013, 05:39 PM
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Why would they make this so complicated...

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10-02-2013, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Why would they make this so complicated...
It's more complicated to explain than it actually is.

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10-02-2013, 06:06 PM
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This thread is hilarious. Not because of all the different interpretations of the rules, but because the NHL made such a convoluted system.

Here's how I understand it:

Met:

1. Rangers (top team in conference)
2. Penguins
3. Caps
4. CBJ
5. Isles

Atlantic:

1. Boston
2. Habs
3. Wings

Round 1:

Rangers over Isles
CBJ over Boston
Penguins over Caps
Habs over Wings

Round two would then become:

Rangers v. CBJ
Habs v. Pens

Leading of course to the solution that two teams from the same division could square off in the Eastern Conference Finals.

The question then becomes though, if the Penguins beat the Habs in this scenario, are they crowned Atlantic division champions?

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10-02-2013, 06:18 PM
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Tawnos
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Once teams crossover, they stay in their "new division" for the 2nd round. In your scenario, the Blue Jackets would play the Habs in the 2nd round.

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10-02-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
This thread is hilarious. Not because of all the different interpretations of the rules, but because the NHL made such a convoluted system.

Here's how I understand it:

Met:

1. Rangers (top team in conference)
2. Penguins
3. Caps
4. CBJ
5. Isles

Atlantic:

1. Boston
2. Habs
3. Wings

Round 1:

Rangers over Isles
CBJ over Boston
Penguins over Caps
Habs over Wings

Round two would then become:

Rangers v. CBJ
Habs v. Pens

Leading of course to the solution that two teams from the same division could square off in the Eastern Conference Finals.

The question then becomes though, if the Penguins beat the Habs in this scenario, are they crowned Atlantic division champions?
Well according to my (new) understanding, they group the #1 seeds from each division with the #2 vs #3 from the same division and keep them in that 4-some without reseeding, so your scenario would go like this:

Rangers over Isles
Penguins over Caps

CBJ over Boston
Habs over Wings

There is no reseeding (although originally I thought I had read somewhere that there was), so those groups will stick together.

Rangers vs. Pens
CBJ vs. Habs

However your question still remains - if CBJ wins, are they the Atlantic champions even though they are in the Metro division?

I'm not a fan of these rules at all, too complicated. I dread having to explain them to some of my friends who only watch hockey in the playoffs

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10-02-2013, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Once teams crossover, they stay in their "new division" for the 2nd round. In your scenario, the Blue Jackets would play the Habs in the 2nd round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alien Valuating View Post
Well according to my (new) understanding, they group the #1 seeds from each division with the #2 vs #3 from the same division and keep them in that 4-some without reseeding, so your scenario would go like this:

Rangers over Isles
Penguins over Caps

CBJ over Boston
Habs over Wings

There is no reseeding (although originally I thought I had read somewhere that there was), so those groups will stick together.

Rangers vs. Pens
CBJ vs. Habs

However your question still remains - if CBJ wins, are they the Atlantic champions even though they are in the Metro division?

I'm not a fan of these rules at all, too complicated. I dread having to explain them to some of my friends who only watch hockey in the playoffs
Ah, thank you! I had a feeling I didn't understand them fully either. So once you cross over, you cross over.

Weird.

Can't wait until a team from Ohio is the Atlantic Division champion, or a team from Sunrise, FL is the Metropolitan division champion

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10-02-2013, 06:31 PM
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There was too much appeasing going on. Once they went with the divisional format, it should've just been top 4. Especially since there's no way to prove that a team with a better record in one division is actually better than a team with a lesser record in another. It could be that they're better or it could be that there's just a larger disparity in quality in that particular division.

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10-02-2013, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
There was too much appeasing going on. Once they went with the divisional format, it should've just been top 4. Especially since there's no way to prove that a team with a better record in one division is actually better than a team with a lesser record in another. It could be that they're better or it could be that there's just a larger disparity in quality in that particular division.
I hope that once two more teams are added in the west and we have 4 divisions of 8 teams, that they'll reconsider and move to this format.

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10-03-2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
I hope that once two more teams are added in the west and we have 4 divisions of 8 teams, that they'll reconsider and move to this format.
Except IF two teams are added, they could be from the Eastern time zone.

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10-03-2013, 09:44 AM
  #21
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Why would they make this so complicated...
Actually, it's not that complicated...no more complicated than the old system where the winner of the Southeast division could have the 6th or 7th best record in the conference, but still be seeded third.

This is just a new system that people (including Brooksie) will have to see in action one time before they totally understand it.

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