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Old
11-27-2006, 05:11 PM
  #176
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Ryder is perfect trade bait, he won't land us a first line centre, because WE HAVE a first line centre in Koivu. What we need is some good wingers that can play solid on both sides of the puck.

Along with Ryder, i'm a little annoyed with Kovalev. Inconsistent players don't rank high with me.
Ryder is the perfect trade bait for a second-line center. Samsonov too. And who in hell would want a guy like Kovalev at 4.5 milion $ ?

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11-27-2006, 05:27 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Jaded and Agrestic View Post
After a well thoughtout argument, this phrase caught me off guard, and now I've got food all over my keyboard.
I hope you saw it for more of the humour side of it than anything else!

Anyway, I had just read through his post where he was subtly trying to prop himself up as this experienced hockey-mind. I'm really not interested in the pissing competitions of any kind; particularly not the (unfortunately common) who's watched/worked/coached hockey the longest! variety.

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11-27-2006, 05:29 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
Ryder is the perfect trade bait for a second-line center. Samsonov too. And who in hell would want a guy like Kovalev at 4.5 milion $ ?
Good luck getting a quality second line center offering Ryder by himself. He hasnt yet established himself and thats why we wont get fair return for him.

This will be a deadline deal if it happens if at all and it wont be because we need a 2nd line center it will be because management has made a decision that they dont feel Ryder can play the style of game they want. Also will hinge on the chances of us making the playoffs.

Sammy has less value then Kovalev even if he makes 1 million less. Kovalev is a pp quarterback down low. Sammy is invisible all the time.

People who want players traded are overreacting our team is playing pretty well and we are just starting to get our regular lineup together for the first time this season. I would rather have us make the playoffs then have kovalev and ryder and whoever else you think is underachiving score 30 goals.

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11-27-2006, 06:42 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
Good luck getting a quality second line center offering Ryder by himself. He hasnt yet established himself and thats why we wont get fair return for him.
What will it take for Ryder to be considered established, in that case? And what would you say his value is?

Would you consider Horcoff more established, or as having more trade value? How about Stoll?

What about Morrison? Many would consider him a two-way, second line center. He's certainly established. Would you consider him more or less valuable than Ryder?

I'm curious who people that are advocating moving one of Montreal's best goal scorers would want as a center in return for him. If we look around the league, there is not an abundance of centers available. Heck, there aren't even an abundance of centers we'd consider quality second-line centers. What teams have good second line centers? Off-hand, I can think of: Buffalo, Carolina, Pitts (unique case), Boston, TB in the East. That's it. Am I forgetting anyone?

In the West, there are a few more teams. Vancouver (I consider Morrison a quality second-line center with a bloated salary being used in a bad situation), Edmonton, Detroit, Anaheim, and San Jose all have good 1-2 centers.

That's 10 teams out of 30. And some of those teams are borderline playoff clubs. Several elite clubs are not listed here.

So tell me, Evil Ted: what second line centers do you feel are out of Ryder's value-range? Of the teams I listed, I can see Ryder would not be sufficient for some of their 2nd line centers. But when I look across the league, I see Ryder as being better, younger and more productive than the vast majority of the 2nd line centers out there.

Which begs the question for those of you campaigning for a Ryder-for-second-line-center swap: who exactly do you want to swap for Ryder?

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11-27-2006, 07:48 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I hope you saw it for more of the humour side of it than anything else!

Anyway, I had just read through his post where he was subtly trying to prop himself up as this experienced hockey-mind. I'm really not interested in the pissing competitions of any kind; particularly not the (unfortunately common) who's watched/worked/coached hockey the longest! variety.
I wasn't trying to be subtle; I'll say it bluntly: despite your continued arrogance, I believe your hockey-mind is inferior to mine. There hehe, happy?

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11-27-2006, 08:04 PM
  #181
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I was happier before you giggled mid-sentence.

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11-27-2006, 08:07 PM
  #182
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Ryder is like any other goal scorer or shooter a streaky player. He will get his goals in bunches. The impotant thing for ryder is to play some good hockey well hes not scoring and so far this year he hasent cost the habs to many goals. Ryder will get his 30 goals, there going to be spread out over the entire season. The one thing I would like ryder to improuve on this year is his game in the playoffs. He hasent done a hole lot in the playoffs so far. Now that hes got some good playoffs experience I would like to see him raise his game during the spring.

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11-27-2006, 10:00 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike8 View Post
I'm curious who people that are advocating moving one of Montreal's best goal scorers would want as a center in return for him.

I like Ryder, he works hard and if he continues to develop I think he has potential to be a 30 goalscorer or better. I also have a feeling managment may not be sold on him yet, hence why he has not been signed long term. I hope he has another great season and we do lock him up.

I am not by any means advocating moving anyone Montreal is playing well we are a playoff team right now things are running smoothly even though some of the key injuries things have worked well. As long as they continue this way we wont be seeing any trades I highly doubt, unless we are not going to make the playoffs then there is a chance a guy like Ryder could go, or Souray.

I was just pointing out that people are overreacting over Ryder having a slump, He is a great hockey player and I want him on the habs if he keeps contributing like hes done in the past.

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11-28-2006, 01:18 AM
  #184
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Ryder is what he is. I wouldn't cry if he got traded, but I don't think there's much point to trading him right now. Sure, there's the magical Center or Defenceman, but realistically these types of deals are rare, and I can't think of any team looking to deal a good C or D that would fit the Habs.

Also, who would replace him and his 30 or so goals? Flawed as he might be, right now he's much, much better than the Kostitsyn alternative, at least for a team looking to make some noise in the playoffs this year.

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11-28-2006, 01:21 AM
  #185
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First it was Souray, then Samsonov, then Latendresse, then Kovalev, now it's Ryder...Hmmm who's next?

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11-28-2006, 02:18 AM
  #186
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Originally Posted by habitué View Post
Ryder is the perfect trade bait for a second-line center. Samsonov too. And who in hell would want a guy like Kovalev at 4.5 milion $ ?
People would rather have Kovalev than Samsonov.

So who do you think we'd be stuck with if we offered both of them?

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11-28-2006, 02:21 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by waffledave View Post
First it was Souray, then Samsonov, then Latendresse, then Kovalev, now it's Ryder...Hmmm who's next?
It's been Ryder for a while. Lats was just some people with no patience, and Samsonov is just a bad contract. Souray is a UFA that will be too pricey to keep because he knows he can get a lot on the open market (4.5+, thats the open market, not what he is really worth so relax).

Kovalev is lazy, he could be one of the top 5 guys in points every year if he wanted to be. But he floats a lot and disappears for huge chunks of the game, i was never a fan and i'm not going to jump a bandwagon for him when he catches fire for a few games and then goes cold.

Ryder will get us a good return because of age, salary and the fact that he can be a decent 2nd liner and a team that is stuck with a lot of centres (ahem, Philly?) would want a winger for one of their centres.



I'd love to do a deal like Umberger and a very low pick for Ryder.

What do you think about that trade idea?

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Old
11-28-2006, 06:28 AM
  #188
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The problem with Ryder's game this year, is he's trying to do more than he can actually do. He keeps trying to carry the puck, but he's terrible at it. The puck is always way too far ahead of him. He needs to get back to dumping the puck in, or giving the puck to Koivu to carry it in.

He's getting away from what makes him an effective hockey player and trying to play over his head. Which has resulted in some mistakes.

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11-28-2006, 06:41 AM
  #189
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The one thing I would like ryder to improuve on this year is his game in the playoffs. He hasent done a hole lot in the playoffs so far. Now that hes got some good playoffs experience I would like to see him raise his game during the spring.
Yet again, someone spouts off some mis-information they've gathered from this site - because it certainly isn't from the stats page at nhl.com

Ryder was tied for second on the team last year in the playoffs with 5 points in 6 games. Kovalev, the leading scorer, had 7 points. Ryder did this with an average of 3 mins less ice time per game than Kovalev. If you guys don't think that is upping his game come playoff time, there is something wrong.

Bottom line, he is a hard worker with a deadly shot that can score 30 goals and he is still developing. Why anyone would want to trade him away like John LeClair or countless other players that developed here and went on to do great things on another team is beyond me.

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11-28-2006, 08:46 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by BadHabit View Post
Yet again, someone spouts off some mis-information they've gathered from this site - because it certainly isn't from the stats page at nhl.com

Ryder was tied for second on the team last year in the playoffs with 5 points in 6 games. Kovalev, the leading scorer, had 7 points. Ryder did this with an average of 3 mins less ice time per game than Kovalev. If you guys don't think that is upping his game come playoff time, there is something wrong.

Bottom line, he is a hard worker with a deadly shot that can score 30 goals and he is still developing. Why anyone would want to trade him away like John LeClair or countless other players that developed here and went on to do great things on another team is beyond me.
Im talking about key games in the playoffs, I dont know if you notice my avatar but ryder is one of my favorites, I allways protected him, even last year when everyone was on him for what ever reason. A guy like him could of put the huricanes away in the playoffs last year. Hes a shooter and you want him to shoot the puck as much as posible because hes got one of the best and most acurates shot on the habs. After game two he hardly shot the puck. When ryder strugles to put up points he strugles because he dosent shoot the puck enough. Thats his game and the players urond him have to find a way to give him the puck.

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