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Old
11-21-2006, 04:09 PM
  #1
DarkShark*
 
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Proposal: ATL & SJ

You guys have lost 4 in a row, not sure what all your needs are but you seem to be having goaltending and defense issues. With that in mind...

To Thrashers:
Vesa Toskala
Mark Bell
Scott Hannan
1st round pick

To Sharks:
Kari Lehtonen
Slava Kozlov
Greg de Vries

For all his talent Lehtonen is still a work in progress. Toskala can win NOW, is in his prime, and his contract is about the same as Lehtonen's (very affordable).

You want a shutdown defenseman, Hannan's your guy. He's been playing big minutes for a few years now and is probably best known for making Forsberg invisible in the 2004 playoffs against Colorado. I don't know too much about your defensemen, but I saw that de Vries has the lowest +/- and he's older than Hannan too. Hannan is a UFA after this season, so you can get a good look at him and decide whether to keep him or replace him with someone else (Coburn?)

Bell for Kozlov is admittedly a downgrade at the moment, but Bell CAN play center, and his physical style of play might be better suited for the Eastern Conference, and he has a very manageable contract (6.5M over 3 years). I'm not sure what the contract status of Kozlov and de Vries are, but their salaries for this year (based on NHLPA) are similar to those of Bell and Hannan, so I expect that their cap hits are too.

And on top of that I'm throwing in a first round draft pick (either ours, or New Jersey's, whichever is a higher pick).

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11-21-2006, 04:14 PM
  #2
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IIRC, both Kozlov and deVries are in the last year of their contracts. However, I don't think the franchise is ready to give up on Lehtonen yet.

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Old
11-21-2006, 04:32 PM
  #3
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No thanks.

I'm not ready to give up on Kari Lehtonen.

Slava is an important part of our offence.

From a Sharks POV: Why do you want to give up Toskala? He has been great for you guys. Hannan is also pretty solid, too.

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11-21-2006, 04:37 PM
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I don't like the Bell + 1st round pick (well, I wouldn't mind the first round pick) for Kozlov part. He's arguably the best player on the team at the moment and Bell wouldn't replace him.

If it were

Vesa Toskala
Scott Hannan
1st round pick

for

Kari Lehtonen
Greg de Vries

I'd consider it - though probably heavily biased. Not ready to give up on Lehtonen just yet. :|

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Old
11-21-2006, 05:42 PM
  #5
ExplosiveLEAFman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShark View Post
You guys have lost 4 in a row, not sure what all your needs are but you seem to be having goaltending and defense issues. With that in mind...

To Thrashers:
Vesa Toskala
Mark Bell
Scott Hannan
1st round pick

To Sharks:
Kari Lehtonen
Slava Kozlov
Greg de Vries

For all his talent Lehtonen is still a work in progress. Toskala can win NOW, is in his prime, and his contract is about the same as Lehtonen's (very affordable).

You want a shutdown defenseman, Hannan's your guy. He's been playing big minutes for a few years now and is probably best known for making Forsberg invisible in the 2004 playoffs against Colorado. I don't know too much about your defensemen, but I saw that de Vries has the lowest +/- and he's older than Hannan too. Hannan is a UFA after this season, so you can get a good look at him and decide whether to keep him or replace him with someone else (Coburn?)

Bell for Kozlov is admittedly a downgrade at the moment, but Bell CAN play center, and his physical style of play might be better suited for the Eastern Conference, and he has a very manageable contract (6.5M over 3 years). I'm not sure what the contract status of Kozlov and de Vries are, but their salaries for this year (based on NHLPA) are similar to those of Bell and Hannan, so I expect that their cap hits are too.

And on top of that I'm throwing in a first round draft pick (either ours, or New Jersey's, whichever is a higher pick).
No reason to turn the whole franchise over because of a meaningless four game losing streak in November. The players you offered up are all highly valuable but you want a potential franchise goaltender and the heart of the team in return. A low first round pick doesn't make the trade sound any more attractive. And it's debatable whether Toskala can win "now" here. Most goaltenders would struggle with this team.

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Old
11-21-2006, 07:04 PM
  #6
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Are you guys freakin nuts. There is absolutely no possible way that Don Waddell is going to trade Lehtonen. He is the future of the franchise, and is simply struggling right now. Id wager that by Christmas he will have his #1 starter role back.

Way to much talent to give up on.

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Old
11-21-2006, 07:20 PM
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Kozlov isn't going anywhere.

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Old
11-21-2006, 07:44 PM
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Yeah right...trade Kozlov who is playing the greatest season of his career, and Lehtonen - a future franchise goalie for basically Toskala and Hannan... Toskala is a good goalie but man, no friggin way!!!

Try Toskala, Michalek, Murray which about evens Lehtonen, Kozlov, de Vries...

Now that would be a trade

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Old
11-21-2006, 09:24 PM
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ExplosiveLEAFman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu View Post
Yeah right...trade Kozlov who is playing the greatest season of his career, and Lehtonen - a future franchise goalie for basically Toskala and Hannan... Toskala is a good goalie but man, no friggin way!!!

Try Toskala, Michalek, Murray which about evens Lehtonen, Kozlov, de Vries...

Now that would be a trade
The value of his trade isn't that far off (I'm sure some SJ fans would turn up their noses at it) but it's too risky trading a guy like Kari this early in his career.

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Old
11-21-2006, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosferatu View Post
Yeah right...trade Kozlov who is playing the greatest season of his career, and Lehtonen - a future franchise goalie for basically Toskala and Hannan... Toskala is a good goalie but man, no friggin way!!!

Try Toskala, Michalek, Murray which about evens Lehtonen, Kozlov, de Vries...

Now that would be a trade

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Old
11-22-2006, 06:25 AM
  #11
ExplosiveLEAFman
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Nice, well thought reply. Everyone on this board is a better person because of your brief appearance.

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Old
11-22-2006, 07:20 AM
  #12
btn
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It's a pretty awful deal from a Thrashers perspective.

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Old
11-22-2006, 09:32 AM
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RoyalAir
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I like the idea of the deal a lot. I'm just not crazy about giving away Kozlov; I'm afraid that while the trade makes Atlanta an overall better team defensively (As Toskala and Hannan are definite upgrades over Lehtonen and DeVries),it really hurts the goal scoring department. Atlanta has enough issues as it is scoring goals, and if Kozlov were removed from the equation, well, damn. Better hope Tosk and Hannan can combine to win plenty of 1-0, 2-1 games.

The other thing I like about this deal is that it makes the team collectively younger. Yeah, Tosk is older than Kari, but he's better, too. Everyone else is helping make an older team younger.

Interesting idea. A lot of Thrashers fans wouldn't sign off on this deal, but I'm intrigued. I think it makes a lot of sense, but the negative impact on goal scoring worries me.

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Old
11-22-2006, 09:51 AM
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Atlanta would never win another shootout!

no thanks.

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Old
11-22-2006, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalAir View Post
(As Toskala and Hannan are definite upgrades over Lehtonen and DeVries),i
How in the sweet name of god is Toskala an improvement over Lehts? He has a couple bad weeks and all the sudden he is trade bait?

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Old
11-22-2006, 03:11 PM
  #16
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move does not make sense from either side.

toskala for lehtonen? atlanta shouldn't ditch kari and the one thing SJ does not need is another goalie.

bell, hannan, 1st for kozlov, de vries? closer value-wise but i still don't see why either team does it. from the atlanta perspective, hannan isn't a significant upgrade for me over de vries to warrant the odd lateral moves in the other "sections" of the deal and they're both going to be free agents soon. i think from SJ's perspective de vries for hannan is a downgrade.

so really it's pretty much bell, 1st for kozlov. SJ won't do that b/c bell has only played about 15 games for them and still has time to turn it around. ATL probably won't do it because kozlov is playing great and they can make the playoffs this year.

all in all, i don't like any part of this proposal, even though i was the first person on the boards to suggest de vries to SJ.

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Old
11-22-2006, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky View Post
Are you guys freakin nuts. There is absolutely no possible way that Don Waddell is going to trade Lehtonen. He is the future of the franchise, and is simply struggling right now. Id wager that by Christmas he will have his #1 starter role back.

Way to much talent to give up on.
If DW made such a deal, he'd be strung up in Centennial Olympic Park like he was Mussolini.......

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Old
11-27-2006, 12:47 AM
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Just realized, Don Waddell = DW = Doug Wilson

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Old
11-27-2006, 12:56 AM
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Excuse me there has been a plethora of new Shark fans (new to this board) who are making ridiculous trade proposals. This is another one which won't help the Sharks at all.

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Old
11-27-2006, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkShark View Post

For all his talent Lehtonen is still a work in progress. Toskala can win NOW, is in his prime, and his contract is about the same as Lehtonen's (very affordable).
Nah...I see what you're saying, but back in the day, there was a little known quarterback down in these parts by the name of Brett Favre...we sent him to Green Bay and look what happened...we're not that trigger-happy anymore

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Old
11-27-2006, 03:40 PM
  #21
StevenintheATL
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Nah...I see what you're saying, but back in the day, there was a little known quarterback down in these parts by the name of Brett Favre...we sent him to Green Bay and look what happened...we're not that trigger-happy anymore
Considered to this day to be the worst trade in Atlanta sports history. Before this one, it was the infamous Brett Butler to the Indians for Len Barker trade....

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Old
11-27-2006, 05:09 PM
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ExplosiveLEAFman
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Originally Posted by StevenintheATL View Post
Considered to this day to be the worst trade in Atlanta sports history. Before this one, it was the infamous Brett Butler to the Indians for Len Barker trade....
I've never really viewed that as an awful trade. Favre would have never developed playing under June Jones and the run and shoot type offense he ran. Holmgren and the WC offense was perfect for him.


Edit: I guess Glanville was still the coach at the time but the same rule applies.

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Old
11-27-2006, 05:56 PM
  #23
StevenintheATL
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Originally Posted by explosivethinman View Post
I've never really viewed that as an awful trade. Favre would have never developed playing under June Jones and the run and shoot type offense he ran. Holmgren and the WC offense was perfect for him.


Edit: I guess Glanville was still the coach at the time but the same rule applies.

It was a trade that at the time made sense. Favre was the back up to Chris Miller, and in the two games he got in, he went 0 for 5 with 2 interceptions. Brett enjoyed the local nightlife a little too much for Jerry, so off he went and in came Wade Wilson. Who would have thought that a change of scenery would have helped turn him into a future Hall of Famer.....

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Old
11-27-2006, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btn View Post
It's a pretty awful deal from a Thrashers perspective.
It's an awful deal from both sides, it's pretty much illogical I'd think. Lethonen and Kozlov are more valuable to the Thrashers then they would be to the Sharks (the Sharks have a glut of goal tending talent that would be hindered from such a young, talented goalie being the sudden #1. I would think Shark fans would just want to keep Toskala or Nabokov for a few seasons and then watch what happens with Griess). Hannan is valuable to either side, but the Sharks are hurting a lot more for a solid defender then wanting to give one up. Toskala is fine in a Sharks uniform, keep him and the Sharks just wait out a team to get desperate and trade for Nabokov. I'd think DW and DW both would hang up the phone after two minutes of discussion on this one.

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