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Old
10-02-2013, 04:59 PM
  #551
Habssince89
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As much as the refs sucked, I put this loss straight onto MT.

He not only played DD's line when they clearly shouldn't have been out there (No energy, no ability to cycle, the only big body was playing injured.), but it was in spite of the EGG line being the best line on the ice for either team. Other times, where the EGG line hasn't been that good, I can see why he could go back to the well, so to speak.

I was especially angry when he didn't make Eller the extra skater with the goalie pulled. Absolutely inexcusable. When does DD stop getting chances as a 2C? He talked about giving the youth more responsibility and so far it's been a lie.

He also refused to play PK Subban, a Norris winner and the best player on the team, on any of the many penalty kills. He's in peak physical form, the first night of the season, and he's an elite talent. How do you not let him play all situations???

He gave me fits throughout the game for his refusal to adjust. Now, I understand that the lines may be intact for the next while (no need to shuffle after one game), but anyone who is honest will agree that at least for the next game, the EGG line should switch minutes with the DD line.

Plek line= Hard minutes, Two-way line
EGG line= Soft minutes, preferred matchups
DD line= The exploitation line*

*If we're going to have an exploitation line, we might as while give those select minutes to the DD line, to try and make it easier on them. The EGG line is clearly fine if they are protected a bit, and the only difference in this set-up is the TOI distribution. DD I think would do well against weaker defenders, and he can work on getting better while not at the expense of the more productive lines.

MT better hold DD responsible for his terrible play. No more free passes. It's pure hypocritical behaviour if he's off the hook and still on the PP.

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10-02-2013, 05:45 PM
  #552
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Originally Posted by Kirk Muller View Post
Its pretty much the same story year after year with Montreal coaches. We have a weak defense yet while other teams rely heavily on their star defenseman, Montreal tries to harness them.

Same with their young stars. Give them sheltered minutes and pray they dont make any mistakes ever or be benched, and never let them progress to the next level by playing through the growing pains
Less PK on the PK, more negociation leverage for Bergevin!

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10-02-2013, 06:19 PM
  #553
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Bournival should play 4C next game. I love White, but Bournival will be a much more important player for us if he meets potential, and he did earn a chance with a great camp/pre-season.

Here are some things Bournival could bring to the table:
-Speed in the bottom 6; Very important for the forecheck.
-A natural centre for the 4th line instead of Prust
-PK ability
-Can slide up to the 3rd line if lines are juggled
-His competent offensive skills allows MT to roll 4 lines with confidence.
-Said skills could help boost Prust and Moen's point totals, which may not seem like much but a timely goal from the 4th line can lead to a few more Ws than one would think.

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10-02-2013, 06:29 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by TGV View Post
Less PK on the PK, more negociation leverage for Bergevin!
Bergevin has no more leverage

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10-02-2013, 06:32 PM
  #555
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I find it funny that even with the enforcer, we still had an injury (Pacioretty) and still lost the game. It also didn't stop the Leafs from hacking and wacking, nor did it stop Prust from getting boarded twice in the game.
But we got the moral victory, so when we ended up losing the hockey game, we can go on the general board and brag about how tough we are.

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10-02-2013, 06:35 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
But we got the moral victory, so when we ended up losing the hockey game, we can go on the general board and brag about how tough we are.
There's a spectrum between "getting your ass beat on national TV/HNIC every month" and "being so tough you don't care if you win"

Seeing Spacek, Pyatt, Tinky Winky and Laa-Laa get embarrassed and beat down is seared into my memory. We all want a bigger, tougher team, a team that won't soil its britches when players like Mitchell or Boychuck come a knockin'.

Is that honestly too much to ask?

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10-02-2013, 06:44 PM
  #557
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
There's a spectrum between "getting your ass beat on national TV/HNIC every month" and "being so tough you don't care if you win"

Seeing Spacek, Pyatt, Tinky Winky and Laa-Laa get embarrassed and beat down is seared into my memory. We all want a bigger, tougher team, a team that won't soil its britches when players like Mitchell or Boychuck come a knockin'.

Is that honestly too much to ask?
We lost both games and still had players injured. I don't like Losing (especially to the Leafs), I don't care how it's done.

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10-02-2013, 06:50 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
There's a spectrum between "getting your ass beat on national TV/HNIC every month" and "being so tough you don't care if you win"

Seeing Spacek, Pyatt, Tinky Winky and Laa-Laa get embarrassed and beat down is seared into my memory. We all want a bigger, tougher team, a team that won't soil its britches when players like Mitchell or Boychuck come a knockin'.

Is that honestly too much to ask?
It's great that we are building a team that can bite back, but I'm impressed that more people around here are concerned about finding a replacement for Parros so we can win more boxing style fighting matchups than they are at the fact that our defense was atrocious, and the coach refuses to give ice time to young players regardless of merit, and that our PP and PK player usage is both terrible.

I actually was impressed with Parros, but that last fight was a useless side show. This team needs discipline too, we might have played tougher yesterday but we still played stupid and lost our cool way too easily. I mean really, the response to yesterday's game is calls to trade our draft pick for Patrick ****ing Bordeleau?

There was probably more individually good than bad last night, but this coaching....

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10-02-2013, 06:52 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
We lost both games and still had players injured. I don't like Losing (especially to the Leafs), I don't care how it's done.
You're right that losing is losing, but think about it this way: If the Habs can establish a better reputation as a tough team, teams will look for other strategies to beat them. Being able to put up a fight when the Leafs/Bruins/Flyers/Whoever try to goon it up or will likely decrease the chances of a full out line brawl.

Will fighting win us games? No.

But the time will come when we can settle things down with players who can fight, and allow our skill players to re-take control of the game before things get out of hand. The focus should always be on being the better hockey team, and the truth is that the best hockey teams are balanced. I'm glad the toughness has been a focus of the management. In time, when it is common knowledge that the Habs can fight back, it won't be so quickly tested and I believe the focus will come back to playing hockey and scoring goals. We simply have that toughness in our back pocket in case it's needed. I don't think we'd ever get to a point where it's being "so tough you don't care if you win".

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10-02-2013, 06:54 PM
  #560
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Carter Ashton is playing with a full cage tonight courtesy of a Tinordi right hand. He suffered a broken nose in the fight.

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10-02-2013, 06:54 PM
  #561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
You're right that losing is losing, but think about it this way: If the Habs can establish a better reputation as a tough team, teams will look for other strategies to beat them. Being able to put up a fight when the Leafs/Bruins/Flyers/Whoever try to goon it up or will likely decrease the chances of a full out line brawl.

Will fighting win us games? No.

But the time will come when we can settle things down with players who can fight, and allow our skill players to re-take control of the game before things get out of hand. The focus should always be on being the better hockey team, and the truth is that the best hockey teams are balanced. I'm glad the toughness has been a focus of the management. In time, when it is common knowledge that the Habs can fight back, it won't be so quickly tested and I believe the focus will come back to playing hockey and scoring goals. We simply have that toughness in our back pocket in case it's needed. I don't think we'd ever get to a point where it's being "so tough you don't care if you win".
And the first two fights last night if anything build team unity and confidence. But instead of settling on that, we got undisciplined and played right into Caryle's trap. At the end of the 2nd the team looked as insecure as its fanbase.

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10-02-2013, 07:00 PM
  #562
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Bergevin has no more leverage
This...

as for the game, what can I say that hasn't been said, I listened to the other "hab fans" at work ***** about Price for most of the day, I thought he played well, he made some pretty miraculous saves to keep us in the game, just because Glenn 10vezina Healey says that shorthanded goal was weak dosn't mean it was. Like everyone else I don't understand why Desharnais is given every opportunity to excel here, while Eller has to fight for every minute he gets. Perhaps there's something in a name, but if that's the case were really reaching for that French Canadian star.

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10-02-2013, 07:01 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
And the first two fights last night if anything build team unity and confidence. But instead of settling on that, we got undisciplined and played right into Caryle's trap. At the end of the 2nd the team looked as insecure as its fanbase.
I think the biggest problem was way too many penalties. The first two lines could never get any chemistry going plus Max missed some time with his hand injury.


Third line got to see time after the penalties as they were frsh and ready to go. Moen looked tougher and more confident to fight and defend team mates with Parros in the lineup.

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10-02-2013, 07:02 PM
  #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
You're right that losing is losing, but think about it this way: If the Habs can establish a better reputation as a tough team, teams will look for other strategies to beat them. Being able to put up a fight when the Leafs/Bruins/Flyers/Whoever try to goon it up or will likely decrease the chances of a full out line brawl.

Will fighting win us games? No.

But the time will come when we can settle things down with players who can fight, and allow our skill players to re-take control of the game before things get out of hand. The focus should always be on being the better hockey team, and the truth is that the best hockey teams are balanced. I'm glad the toughness has been a focus of the management. In time, when it is common knowledge that the Habs can fight back, it won't be so quickly tested and I believe the focus will come back to playing hockey and scoring goals. We simply have that toughness in our back pocket in case it's needed. I don't think we'd ever get to a point where it's being "so tough you don't care if you win".
How many times in the last 5 years have their been line brawls? It's so rare already. I'm starting to wonder if this whole losing, but at least we fought is crutch for fans lean on so they don't feel insecure about their team.

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10-02-2013, 07:03 PM
  #565
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
And the first two fights last night if anything build team unity and confidence. But instead of settling on that, we got undisciplined and played right into Caryle's trap. At the end of the 2nd the team looked as insecure as its fanbase.
I agree. Once again it came down to coaching. The new found toughness will have it's growing pains. We have to keep ourselves in check. MT should have reeled them in. To be fair though, the 2nd was bad call after bad call and we spent alot of time on the PK. It's hard to feel secure after that. Then in the 3rd, Carlyle just went into shutdown mode, taking advantage of the officiating.

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10-02-2013, 07:03 PM
  #566
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Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
You're right that losing is losing, but think about it this way: If the Habs can establish a better reputation as a tough team, teams will look for other strategies to beat them. Being able to put up a fight when the Leafs/Bruins/Flyers/Whoever try to goon it up or will likely decrease the chances of a full out line brawl.

Will fighting win us games? No.

But the time will come when we can settle things down with players who can fight, and allow our skill players to re-take control of the game before things get out of hand. The focus should always be on being the better hockey team, and the truth is that the best hockey teams are balanced. I'm glad the toughness has been a focus of the management. In time, when it is common knowledge that the Habs can fight back, it won't be so quickly tested and I believe the focus will come back to playing hockey and scoring goals. We simply have that toughness in our back pocket in case it's needed. I don't think we'd ever get to a point where it's being "so tough you don't care if you win".
I really like this post.

I hope our team can remember that toughness is stashed in their back pocket while their disciplined system is in the front. When our players get the pockets mixed up and reach for the toughness, we usually lose the game.

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10-02-2013, 07:06 PM
  #567
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
It's great that we are building a team that can bite back, but I'm impressed that more people around here are concerned about finding a replacement for Parros so we can win more boxing style fighting matchups than they are at the fact that our defense was atrocious, and the coach refuses to give ice time to young players regardless of merit, and that our PP and PK player usage is both terrible.

I actually was impressed with Parros, but that last fight was a useless side show. This team needs discipline too, we might have played tougher yesterday but we still played stupid and lost our cool way too easily. I mean really, the response to yesterday's game is calls to trade our draft pick for Patrick ****ing Bordeleau?

There was probably more individually good than bad last night, but this coaching....
You're preaching to the choir here. I was hating on Therrien's system before it was cool... maybe I should move to Bushwick

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10-02-2013, 07:07 PM
  #568
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How many times in the last 5 years have their been line brawls? It's so rare already. I'm starting to wonder if this whole losing, but at least we fought is crutch for fans lean on so they don't feel insecure about their team.
Um....

We've had a couple versus the Bs.

One against the leafs, one against the sens last playoffs.

While line brawls are rare, general goon tactics are used all the time against the habs. By beefing up our lineup, we're giving MT tools to diffuse those situations, because teams would be less likely to start crap like that when they have to fight Parros instead of Pyatt.

There's nothing wrong with being happy we won those fights last night. I don't think it's a crutch; I think it's being happy that at least some of our players are doing their jobs. Guys like Laraque never were able to do that. It's important our team has that element. It's all about reputation.

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10-02-2013, 09:18 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by StellerEller View Post
As much as the refs sucked, I put this loss straight onto MT.

He not only played DD's line when they clearly shouldn't have been out there (No energy, no ability to cycle, the only big body was playing injured.), but it was in spite of the EGG line being the best line on the ice for either team. Other times, where the EGG line hasn't been that good, I can see why he could go back to the well, so to speak.

I was especially angry when he didn't make Eller the extra skater with the goalie pulled. Absolutely inexcusable. When does DD stop getting chances as a 2C? He talked about giving the youth more responsibility and so far it's been a lie.

He also refused to play PK Subban, a Norris winner and the best player on the team, on any of the many penalty kills. He's in peak physical form, the first night of the season, and he's an elite talent. How do you not let him play all situations???

He gave me fits throughout the game for his refusal to adjust. Now, I understand that the lines may be intact for the next while (no need to shuffle after one game), but anyone who is honest will agree that at least for the next game, the EGG line should switch minutes with the DD line.

Plek line= Hard minutes, Two-way line
EGG line= Soft minutes, preferred matchups
DD line= The exploitation line*

*If we're going to have an exploitation line, we might as while give those select minutes to the DD line, to try and make it easier on them. The EGG line is clearly fine if they are protected a bit, and the only difference in this set-up is the TOI distribution. DD I think would do well against weaker defenders, and he can work on getting better while not at the expense of the more productive lines.

MT better hold DD responsible for his terrible play. No more free passes. It's pure hypocritical behaviour if he's off the hook and still on the PP.
Honestly, I knew Therrien learned nothing in the off-season as soon as I saw he was matching MARKOV-DIAZ against Kessel. I could only watch in disbelief as Kessel turned Markov inside out with his speed the entire night.. Subban is the only d-man on the team who is capable of skating with Kessel full speed..

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10-02-2013, 09:36 PM
  #570
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- In a fight that involved Moen, I find it quite funny that both players want to remove the helmets, and they gave signal to each other to throw it away at the same time.

- The main reason that Habs lost is due to the penalties.

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10-02-2013, 11:01 PM
  #571
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Um....

We've had a couple versus the Bs.

One against the leafs, one against the sens last playoffs.

While line brawls are rare, general goon tactics are used all the time against the habs. By beefing up our lineup, we're giving MT tools to diffuse those situations, because teams would be less likely to start crap like that when they have to fight Parros instead of Pyatt.

There's nothing wrong with being happy we won those fights last night. I don't think it's a crutch; I think it's being happy that at least some of our players are doing their jobs. Guys like Laraque never were able to do that. It's important our team has that element. It's all about reputation.
Contrary to what Mtl fans think, the other teams respected us. We didn't need to get beefed up with bottom players. You think the teams looked at us and said ''Bah, they're small, walk in the park guys''?? When did speed, skill and combativeness became attribute so unimportant? When did toughness become so important that any other attribute can just be swiped away???

You want big skilled guys so they can create havoc and traffic in the crease, because they can outskate defensemen and rush the net, because they create good offense. Gimme more Tinordi (with more experience), gimme more PK Subban, gimme more MaxPac or Eller or Galchenyuk. I'm down big time because they are SKILLED big guys. I'll take a Gallagher on every single line as well.

The problem wasn't our bottom line, or bottom pair. The issue was our top 4 D, and our top 6 forwards. We needed to get bigger there. Turns out we got smaller, Briere comes in instead of Cole/Ryder (and plays the wing on top of it, meaning we send this old smurf to do battles. Great thinking!), and due to Emelin's injury, 5'11 under 200lbs Diaz is now on the top 4.
So ya, MB completely missed the boat on this one. He beefed up the wrong side of the team.

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10-02-2013, 11:02 PM
  #572
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- The main reason that Habs lost is due to the penalties.
And had we won, it wouldn't have been due to this ''new found toughness''.

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10-03-2013, 01:36 AM
  #573
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As much as the refs sucked, I put this loss straight onto MT.

He not only played DD's line when they clearly shouldn't have been out there (No energy, no ability to cycle, the only big body was playing injured.), but it was in spite of the EGG line being the best line on the ice for either team. Other times, where the EGG line hasn't been that good, I can see why he could go back to the well, so to speak.

I was especially angry when he didn't make Eller the extra skater with the goalie pulled. Absolutely inexcusable. When does DD stop getting chances as a 2C? He talked about giving the youth more responsibility and so far it's been a lie.

He also refused to play PK Subban, a Norris winner and the best player on the team, on any of the many penalty kills. He's in peak physical form, the first night of the season, and he's an elite talent. How do you not let him play all situations???

He gave me fits throughout the game for his refusal to adjust. Now, I understand that the lines may be intact for the next while (no need to shuffle after one game), but anyone who is honest will agree that at least for the next game, the EGG line should switch minutes with the DD line.

Plek line= Hard minutes, Two-way line
EGG line= Soft minutes, preferred matchups
DD line= The exploitation line*

*If we're going to have an exploitation line, we might as while give those select minutes to the DD line, to try and make it easier on them. The EGG line is clearly fine if they are protected a bit, and the only difference in this set-up is the TOI distribution. DD I think would do well against weaker defenders, and he can work on getting better while not at the expense of the more productive lines.

MT better hold DD responsible for his terrible play. No more free passes. It's pure hypocritical behaviour if he's off the hook and still on the PP.
How is it possible for the Habs to win with DD aboard? Blame MB for his predilection for soft candy. Four years is a long chew for us Hab fans. Is there no way out besides putting DD on waivers?

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10-03-2013, 01:40 AM
  #574
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On the positive note. When the Habs started to suck last season... who was still producing? The kids. Who produced yesterday? The kids.

Habs are in transition this year. No more Gionta, maybe no more Markov next season too. The kids will take on the team and the Habs should finish anywhere between 7-8-9-10 in the East this season. 50/50 chance of making the playoffs. If they don't make it, they should be on the edge of it.

DD and Plekanec. One really needs to go at the trade deadline or next summer. Need to get bigger on centre line, needs to get bigger on the wings.

Please someone put McCarron in a DeLorean...

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10-03-2013, 01:59 AM
  #575
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Tbh, if we had gotten just one of 3-4 possible calls after Eller's 2nd goal, that would have set up an arguably crappy PP, but definitely a great chance to tie up a game that in no way we were dominated in. Sure, DD neutralized his line and Gio for some reason can't score those clutch goals like he used to two years ago (bicep), but the leafs goals came off some bad reffing (some amazing diving by the Leafs, yet Markov gets called), one definitely bad play starting with Tinordi's pinch, one massive screw up by Markov (won't see that too often. lack of speed yes, losing the puck like that, probably not), one hell of a lucky carom off cube's skate. Overall I think we deserved a better fate and if Parros is able to come back, I really like the way things are shaping up apart from DD.

What really annoys me is the double standard re: Eller getting benched last season after the first game. Cleeeeearly it had nothing to do with his play since he wasn't noticeable bad in that game. Just an excuse to but Gallagher in, which actually worked quite well and perhaps pushed Eller into form (which...could happen to DD?) But it won't happen and that's after everyone blatantly saw that DD played horribly. I can't believe that MT is trying to tow the party line with DD. I hardly think anybody cares that he's Franco. (Including the most rabid pro-Habs-must-have-Francophone player fans). He sucks more than he is French Canadian AND I honestly think Bournival (Franco, so a fair trade) is better than him, despite being a rookie. I think the problem may be that the one person who is blind to how bad DD is...is Max Pacioretty. I wish MT would just throw Bournival into the fire on the Patches line cuz he wins battles. Briere and Patches just need a guy who can create space for them and finish. Bournival is capable of that IMO. IIRC, Gallagher played pretty damn well in his first few games, centered by another rookie. It can happen.

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