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Old
10-02-2013, 11:38 AM
  #201
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I thought Goerge McPhee bloodying Tocchet in '86 was a big relief after years of beatings.
True, but more abuse followed that. The tables turned with the Orr punch. Off course, now we get to this year.....

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10-02-2013, 03:18 PM
  #202
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He's getting 5 plus, book it.
Agreed. I think he could get up to $5.75M per if the cap goes up, which it will. I would pay him that and move Del Zotto, who is also in line for a new contract.

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10-02-2013, 05:22 PM
  #203
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I thought Goerge McPhee bloodying Tocchet in '86 was a big relief after years of beatings.
This still may be my favorite fight of all time. Completely changed that series. Nice memory there. Good God I was 16 then haha

I'm not too concerned about the guys getting pushed around. What I'm mostly concerned about is in front of Hank. I love our D, but we have nobody too clear the crease. This was a big issue in preseason and you know teams are going to exploit it.

We shall see...

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10-02-2013, 06:32 PM
  #204
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unpopular opinion I guess but Girardi is absolutely not good enough to warrant over 5 million if he keeps riding shotgun to McD/Staal. He didn't have a good season last year, and I don't see him getting much better. I'd like to see how he plays this season first but I think he's the most overrated Ranger.

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10-02-2013, 07:34 PM
  #205
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It's funny, JD goes to the Blues and they become a hard-nosed, big, fast team. He leaves and goes to the Blue Jackets. They become a big, hard-nosed fast team. I want JD back...
Ditto that!

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10-02-2013, 07:43 PM
  #206
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Not exactly, IMO.

It was definitely a welcome that we were on the other end of that punch vs them for a change, but Orr knocking out Fedoruk(who was already punchy at the time) does not seem like Schultz, Bridgman, Brown getting knocked out. I thought Goerge McPhee bloodying Tocchet in '86 was a big relief after years of beatings.



He's getting 5 plus, book it.
In the mid 90's for those that were dialed in back then there as another changing of the guard. Remember pre-game footage that was all about the big bullying style of the Flyers with Lindros, Primeau, Berube and the new tough guy on the block big bad Claude Boivin. During the pregame they actually went into the flyers locker room where Boivin was working out with some heavy weights. Game starts and Boivin acts up. Kocurs was on the ice. Boivin goes right after him, and eats a wicked right hand. Kocur dropped him with the first and only punch of the fight. Took the wind right out of the Flyers sail.

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10-02-2013, 08:58 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Lion Hound View Post
In the mid 90's for those that were dialed in back then there as another changing of the guard. Remember pre-game footage that was all about the big bullying style of the Flyers with Lindros, Primeau, Berube and the new tough guy on the block big bad Claude Boivin. During the pregame they actually went into the flyers locker room where Boivin was working out with some heavy weights. Game starts and Boivin acts up. Kocurs was on the ice. Boivin goes right after him, and eats a wicked right hand. Kocur dropped him with the first and only punch of the fight. Took the wind right out of the Flyers sail.
Kocur was a monster, had that innocent look to him when he first came up. About 3 min later all innocence was lost lol.

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10-02-2013, 09:12 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
unpopular opinion I guess but Girardi is absolutely not good enough to warrant over 5 million if he keeps riding shotgun to McD/Staal. He didn't have a good season last year, and I don't see him getting much better. I'd like to see how he plays this season first but I think he's the most overrated Ranger.
Girardi was fine last season. A little shakier than the season prior, but he still led the team in TOI and was his usual warrior self. Remember that he suffered an ankle injury against the Canadiens and was back in no time. I feel like that affected his game a bit after he came back.

Look at what Denis Wideman, Mark Streit, and Paul Martin are making. All over $5M per, and all worse than Girardi. I'd rather keep Girardi for 5 years at $5.5M than keep Del Zotto and give him a long term, $4.5M per year contract. I think Del Zotto is also a more valuable trade chip given his age and RFA status. The Rangers are going to have to cut salary at some point, and I'd rather lose DZ than Girardi.

This team needs more players like Girardi, not less. I love the D, but they lack an edge as is. Losing Girardi makes that worse.

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10-02-2013, 10:25 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Girardi was fine last season. A little shakier than the season prior, but he still led the team in TOI and was his usual warrior self. Remember that he suffered an ankle injury against the Canadiens and was back in no time. I feel like that affected his game a bit after he came back.

Look at what Denis Wideman, Mark Streit, and Paul Martin are making. All over $5M per, and all worse than Girardi. I'd rather keep Girardi for 5 years at $5.5M than keep Del Zotto and give him a long term, $4.5M per year contract. I think Del Zotto is also a more valuable trade chip given his age and RFA status. The Rangers are going to have to cut salary at some point, and I'd rather lose DZ than Girardi.

This team needs more players like Girardi, not less. I love the D, but they lack an edge as is. Losing Girardi makes that worse.
oh god that Dennis Wideman contract is literally the worst thing I've ever seen. I do like Girardi, I'm not a fanboy but I absolutely appreciate what he's done for this team. But he seemed two steps behind last season, maybe that's my unrealistic expectations, but iunno. I can't believe his body keeps holding up, which factors in heavily to my skepticism. He's got to start breaking down sometime.......right?

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10-03-2013, 07:39 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
oh god that Dennis Wideman contract is literally the worst thing I've ever seen. I do like Girardi, I'm not a fanboy but I absolutely appreciate what he's done for this team. But he seemed two steps behind last season, maybe that's my unrealistic expectations, but iunno. I can't believe his body keeps holding up, which factors in heavily to my skepticism. He's got to start breaking down sometime.......right?
I don't know either but the same could be said for Callahan and here's a difference. Usually over the course of a season Ryan will be out with an injury. Girardi blocks all those shots--is getting hit all the time--plays all those minutes and he hardly ever misses any games. He's not been injury prone. I can imagine he's always playing with numerous bruises and abrasions but he's always in the starting lineup come game time. Can't recall a concussion. Can't recall a broken bone. Can't recall any major knee surgery or shoulder separation.

He's Mr. Reliable.

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10-03-2013, 08:15 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Girardi was fine last season. A little shakier than the season prior, but he still led the team in TOI and was his usual warrior self. Remember that he suffered an ankle injury against the Canadiens and was back in no time. I feel like that affected his game a bit after he came back.

Look at what Denis Wideman, Mark Streit, and Paul Martin are making. All over $5M per, and all worse than Girardi. I'd rather keep Girardi for 5 years at $5.5M than keep Del Zotto and give him a long term, $4.5M per year contract. I think Del Zotto is also a more valuable trade chip given his age and RFA status. The Rangers are going to have to cut salary at some point, and I'd rather lose DZ than Girardi.

This team needs more players like Girardi, not less. I love the D, but they lack an edge as is. Losing Girardi makes that worse.
Exactly my feelings.

However let's get this thread back on topic.

Who would be available, in the Prust/Neil mold, that could help this team?

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10-03-2013, 08:38 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Exactly my feelings.

However let's get this thread back on topic.

Who would be available, in the Prust/Neil mold, that could help this team?
looking ahead to the 2014 FA class, I would definitely take a flier on Steve Downie, Steve Ott (though I doubt Buffalo lets him go), Jason Chimera, Chris Thorburn, amongst a few others. None of them are Prust/Neil types but those are hard to acquire and stupid expensive. I'd reaaaally be interested in Downie if he made it to the UFA market though.

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10-03-2013, 08:50 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
Girardi was fine last season. A little shakier than the season prior, but he still led the team in TOI and was his usual warrior self. Remember that he suffered an ankle injury against the Canadiens and was back in no time. I feel like that affected his game a bit after he came back.

Look at what Denis Wideman, Mark Streit, and Paul Martin are making. All over $5M per, and all worse than Girardi. I'd rather keep Girardi for 5 years at $5.5M than keep Del Zotto and give him a long term, $4.5M per year contract. I think Del Zotto is also a more valuable trade chip given his age and RFA status. The Rangers are going to have to cut salary at some point, and I'd rather lose DZ than Girardi.

This team needs more players like Girardi, not less. I love the D, but they lack an edge as is. Losing Girardi makes that worse.
Listing a couple of the worst defenseman contracts in the game and saying "See, Girardi is better than them" just isn't going to cut it to for me.

I like Girardi, I hope he stays a Ranger -- but at the right price. Some team will swoop in, ignore the benefits Girardi has had playing with Staal and McDonagh, and pay him like an elite defenseman, which he is not.

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Old
10-03-2013, 08:52 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
looking ahead to the 2014 FA class, I would definitely take a flier on Steve Downie, Steve Ott (though I doubt Buffalo lets him go), Jason Chimera, Chris Thorburn, amongst a few others. None of them are Prust/Neil types but those are hard to acquire and stupid expensive. I'd reaaaally be interested in Downie if he made it to the UFA market though.
We complain about how the Rangers can't develop top-end offensive talent, but the real tragedy is the organization's inability to develop the type of players you listed above from within.

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10-03-2013, 08:54 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Listing a couple of the worst defenseman contracts in the game and saying "See, Girardi is better than them" just isn't going to cut it to for me.

I like Girardi, I hope he stays a Ranger -- but at the right price. Some team will swoop in, ignore the benefits Girardi has had playing with Staal and McDonagh, and pay him like an elite defenseman, which he is not.
I like Girardi as well. I think 4.5-5 is reasonable for what he brings. I hope he stays.

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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
looking ahead to the 2014 FA class, I would definitely take a flier on Steve Downie, Steve Ott (though I doubt Buffalo lets him go), Jason Chimera, Chris Thorburn, amongst a few others. None of them are Prust/Neil types but those are hard to acquire and stupid expensive. I'd reaaaally be interested in Downie if he made it to the UFA market though.
I like Downie, although he is another RW. Ott would be great but he won't leave Buffalo. They just gave him the C.

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10-03-2013, 08:56 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
We complain about how the Rangers can't develop top-end offensive talent, but the real tragedy is the organization's inability to develop the type of players you listed above from within.
It's beyond sad. And for a person who likes a team to be able to dish out some punishment through hits and intimidation, it is incredibly frustrating.

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10-03-2013, 09:06 AM
  #217
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We complain about how the Rangers can't develop top-end offensive talent, but the real tragedy is the organization's inability to develop the type of players you listed above from within.
That's a fantastic point. I was killed when I suggested the Rangers shouldn't make boom or bust picks like this draft when you're first pick is in the third round. They need to develop the kind of players you describe as well. The revolving door of third and fourth liners needs to stop because these are players you should be able to develop and must stop because you can't keep using capspace on UFAs to fill those roles.

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10-03-2013, 09:11 AM
  #218
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That's a fantastic point. I was killed when I suggested the Rangers shouldn't make boom or bust picks like this draft when you're first pick is in the third round. They need to develop the kind of players you describe as well. The revolving door of third and fourth liners needs to stop because these are players you should be able to develop and must stop because you can't keep using capspace on UFAs to fill those roles.
Exactly this. It's crazy to me that they keep drafting big, mean, tough d-men but they can't find these players at forward. Noreau, McIlrath, Graves.

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10-03-2013, 11:55 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by BB v2 0 View Post
I love the D, but they lack an edge as is. Losing Girardi makes that worse.
What the whole team has lacked for years (and it hurt them in the playoffs) is a mean streak. Even with as gritty as the Torts teams have been.

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10-03-2013, 11:58 AM
  #220
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Exactly this. It's crazy to me that they keep drafting big, mean, tough d-men but they can't find these players at forward. Noreau, McIlrath, Graves.
Until I actually see any of them play in NY, I am not holding my breath. It seems that for the last 15 years, all I hear is the need for mobile, skating defenseman.

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10-03-2013, 12:22 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Raspewtin View Post
looking ahead to the 2014 FA class, I would definitely take a flier on Steve Downie, Steve Ott (though I doubt Buffalo lets him go), Jason Chimera, Chris Thorburn, amongst a few others. None of them are Prust/Neil types but those are hard to acquire and stupid expensive. I'd reaaaally be interested in Downie if he made it to the UFA market though.
id love Steve Downie but i bet he will be overpaid.. one player who might flow under the radar as a future UFA is Cody McLeod... id love a player with size that can actually fight and not be a 2 min ice time player... plays wing and center....



id also love Matt Beleksey as well but Ducks just resigned him and wont be an UFA till summer of 2017 i believe..

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10-03-2013, 12:26 PM
  #222
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Exactly this. It's crazy to me that they keep drafting big, mean, tough d-men but they can't find these players at forward. Noreau, McIlrath, Graves.
McIlrath (future Jeff Beukeboom)
Graves (future Cory Sarich)
Noreau (future Derek Engelland)



Bruins Flyers Ducks via draft and trade are able too


guys like Lucic, Hartnell, Simmonds, Getzlaf, Perry


why cant Rangers draft or trade for these type of players

it would be nice to get a big forward that can score and is not such a soft premiter player... i wish Rick Nash had intensity in his game and the willingness to use his 6'4 big body... Rangers where their large forwards play small..

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10-03-2013, 12:30 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
McIlrath (future Jeff Beukeboom)
Graves (future Cory Sarich)
Noreau (future Derek Engelland)



Bruins Flyers Ducks via draft and trade are able too


guys like Lucic, Hartnell, Simmonds, Getzlaf, Perry


why cant Rangers draft or trade for these type of players
I'm not even talking about that level of player. I am talking about a Matt Hendricks, Eric Nystrom, Brandon Bollig, Ryan Reaves, Dwight King, Kyle Clifford, Brandon Prust, Chris Neil, Jared Boll, Derek Dorsett, Marcus Foligno, Nick Foligno, etc.

There are tons of these guys available. In recent memory, the only players who play like that are Dubi (gone) and Yogan (who may not make it). Wilson is awful. McNaught is no longer playing. Weise was let go for nothing.

It's beyond frustrating.

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10-03-2013, 12:48 PM
  #224
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I'm not even talking about that level of player. I am talking about a Matt Hendricks, Eric Nystrom, Brandon Bollig, Ryan Reaves, Dwight King, Kyle Clifford, Brandon Prust, Chris Neil, Jared Boll, Derek Dorsett, Marcus Foligno, Nick Foligno, etc.

There are tons of these guys available. In recent memory, the only players who play like that are Dubi (gone) and Yogan (who may not make it). Wilson is awful. McNaught is no longer playing. Weise was let go for nothing.

It's beyond frustrating.
one reason i was pissed when Haley was sent down.. Rangers dont really have that passionate player on this team... besides Callahan but he is hurt...

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10-03-2013, 12:49 PM
  #225
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one reason i was pissed when Haley was sent down.. Rangers dont really have that passionate player on this team... besides Callahan but he is hurt...
The problem is trying to rely on 1 or 2 players to play that way. It needs to be a group effort.

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