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Ryan Smyth: The most useless player on the team

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Old
10-02-2013, 09:51 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Ol' Jase View Post
It breaks my heart to see Smyth struggling out there, but the level of venom and amount of outright brutal comments in this thread is disgusting.
Lot of kids here OJ. Hopefully one day they will grow up to have manners.

That said, the onus is on Smyth to realize he's done. Hell I remember three years ago (?) when he was in Colorado and got slammed into the stantion going full speed ... I was thinking at the time that would finish him. Last year he was a shadow of himself. He must know this.

The only comment I've made on Smyth (excluding this post) was an off-season plea for him to do the right thing and step away. I wish he would have done that. Heart breaking is about right I'd say.

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10-02-2013, 09:55 PM
  #477
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Smyth had considerable time on pk and bottomsix last season. Nobody here was adding much by way of pts in that capacity. Is that Smyth or the team having a ****** bottomsix last season. I think we both know the answer.

Yak was off last night. People spotted that. Eakins certainly spotted it and said so. Yak still doesn't have his NHL game figured out and was confused much of the night in positioning and was not supporting puck possession very well.

Smyth is being used beyond his means obviously due to injury. I don't see Smyth getting topsix with our top two Centers back and Hall back on wing. Plus Smyth, 37.7 yrs old got 18mins last night playing with some speedy linemates who are going to make most guys looks slow. Most guys would simply drop dead trying to keep up with Hall. For Smyth to expected to do that is over expectation.
It's part both. Smyth fell off a cliff somewhere after December of 2011 and hasn't been seen since. I think he has like 5 goals since that time. It's not that hard to score in this league but Smyth insists on trying the same thing over and over that hasn't worked since Andy Moog was the Stars' starter.

Sure Yak had an off night, but why was he the only one to suffer? Hall was given minutes despite contributing to more goals against than Yak. While I believe Hall should be playing a lot of minutes, don't penalize one player for mistakes and then not do it to another.

If you have to bump Smyth up, then fine, do it. But the top line? We're not that thin, are we? We have Perron and Joensuu who are both leagues better than Smyth. And I agree Hall is going to make guys look slow, but even compared to the slower members of our team he still looks bad. Why not put Hall with players who can take advantage of his blazing speed instead of those who would hinder it?

Just looking at the Game Summary, Smyth played less than half a minute on the PK... So that means he was given basically 15 minutes of ES time. Weren't we struggling on ES scoring last year? I can think of better solutions than Smyth to that.

It just makes little sense to play Smyth in the top 6. He hasn't contributed much offensively in almost 2 years and anyone can see he doesn't have the speed to match anyone. Even sadder is his lack of offensive instincts. We've talked about the Smytty tip-ins but when's the last time we actually saw one?

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10-02-2013, 09:55 PM
  #478
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Really sucks that there are so many days between these opening games. Let's this anger fester on the boards. Plus it feels like a tease. Damn you, Bettman.

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10-02-2013, 10:01 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Replacement View Post
Fact of the matter is you don't win or lose with a 37yr old Ryan Smyth in the lineup but he can still play and make a contribution used properly.

Conversely, Hall, Eberle, and Yak, who should be in good form and should be carrying this club offensively did nothing good last night. A 20 yr old Smyth scoring 39 goals in a year would make any of them look silly. Maybe deserves to be said. None of these 3 have yet come close to the production Smyth had, and at a very young age. Smyth did this without the talent these guys have. But Smyth hands down had more perseverance and dedication.
Smyth in his second year had 39 goals and 61 points.
Eberle in his second year had 34 goals and 76 points. He had a better offensive season than anything Ryan Smyth has done in a 17 year career.

Not to mention that Hall in his 3rd year finished with 50 points in 45 years and top 10 in NHL scoring, something Ryan Smyth has never even come close to flirting with.

All that being said, it is completely irrelevant. What Ryan Smyth did 17 years ago, or 10 years ago, or 3 years ago doesn't matter. As it stands now he is a borderline contributor. In an ideal situation he plays very limited minutes at ES and maybe gets some PP time in front of the net. He can't keep up with the play, especially when being played with the teams faster players.

I agree, Smyth can contribute if used properly. But him being used properly is him playing 8-10 minutes a night.

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10-02-2013, 10:12 PM
  #480
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Smyth is downright painful to watch out there, so what is the answer? Waive Eager of course??? If he sees one more shift in the top 6 I might have to find a new team to cheer for.

As for some previous posters commenting on the contract talks breaking down in 07, it was later revealed in an in depth story in the Edmonton Journal the approach Lowe and Cal Nichols took with the possible Smyth extension. (After Katz bought the team, the Journal dedicated a week long review of the EIG's tenure).

Lowe and Nichols did have interest in re-signing Smyth, but on shorter term due to the hard miles on Smyth's body and the believe injuries would pop up more frequently. When it was established he wouldn't budge on term, the agenda was to offer 100k less than what they believed was his lowest figure. In the end, the 100k difference seemed petty on both sides but management actually got what they wanted.

The question remains - if Lowe agreed with Nichols' position back then, how could he possibly approve Tambo giving him a 2yr deal 5 years later?

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10-02-2013, 10:17 PM
  #481
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Smyth is clearly a great guy, he got Eakins respect to get an A. It's clear he is our worst player by far though, and every play dies on his stick. He's not strong or smart enough to play in the top 6 at all, frankly he's not even close. He doesn't hit anything and takes terrible penalties constantly so he would be a terrible option for the bottom 6 as well.

Last night I was thinking that maybe Eakins was trying to show Smytty that he's done in this league. Feed him all the top line minutes to prove to him he can't physically play there anymore. At best he is a 40 game a year, 8 minute a night type player if we have some injuries. The thing is he is an absolute diehard and would do anything other than stop playing to try and help the team. I'm sure he would block a shot with his face if it meant winning a game but the unfortunate part about that would be he is on the damn ice.

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10-02-2013, 10:35 PM
  #482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Smyth in his second year had 39 goals and 61 points.
Eberle in his second year had 34 goals and 76 points. He had a better offensive season than anything Ryan Smyth has done in a 17 year career.

Not to mention that Hall in his 3rd year finished with 50 points in 45 years and top 10 in NHL scoring, something Ryan Smyth has never even come close to flirting with.

All that being said, it is completely irrelevant. What Ryan Smyth did 17 years ago, or 10 years ago, or 3 years ago doesn't matter. As it stands now he is a borderline contributor. In an ideal situation he plays very limited minutes at ES and maybe gets some PP time in front of the net. He can't keep up with the play, especially when being played with the teams faster players.

I agree, Smyth can contribute if used properly. But him being used properly is him playing 8-10 minutes a night.
I probably could have phrased that better. I did say Eberle, Hall, Yak, are more talented. Then and now. Smyth is a plumber that managed to get 39 goals and has scored at least 30 several times. I dare say they'll be more 30 goal seasons in Smyths canon then Eberles. I see fall off with Eberle which happens to a lot of players once their tendencies are scouted. He's had a harder time since.
Eberle also had benefit of more years training before he hit tHe NHL, a privilege Ryan Smyth didn't have.
I'll say this too. Theres no way Eberle comes close to the +400 goals Smyth has scored in career. To put this in perspective Jordan would have to score 11 consecutive 30 goal years to come out where Smyth is in goals scored. I sincerely doubt Jordan lasts even that long as a player. I see a guy that could be stopped physically by age 30.

Eberle has all kinds of talent. But disappears and is fairly easily shutdown in games. His lack of strength being a real problem. Jets defenders weren't having any trouble with Eberle last night. If Eberle had to play playoff hockey 7 game series against guys like Derrian Hatcher and get hacked 100 times in the series as the go to goal scorer I doubt he makes it to the end of it. Smyth has survived all kinds of pain in intense hockey that Eberle wouldn't know a thing about and doesn't seem too interested in finding out. Thus more and more peripheral play from Jordan that we are seeing already.


Last edited by Replacement: 10-02-2013 at 10:44 PM.
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10-02-2013, 10:39 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by duul View Post
Smyth is clearly a great guy, he got Eakins respect to get an A. It's clear he is our worst player by far though, and every play dies on his stick. He's not strong or smart enough to play in the top 6 at all, frankly he's not even close. He doesn't hit anything and takes terrible penalties constantly so he would be a terrible option for the bottom 6 as well.

Last night I was thinking that maybe Eakins was trying to show Smytty that he's done in this league. Feed him all the top line minutes to prove to him he can't physically play there anymore. At best he is a 40 game a year, 8 minute a night type player if we have some injuries. The thing is he is an absolute diehard and would do anything other than stop playing to try and help the team. I'm sure he would block a shot with his face if it meant winning a game but the unfortunate part about that would be he is on the damn ice.
Actually what Eakins was trying to do was get Hall to play a simpler game, make the passes that are there, and learn to possess the puck, get it down low, retain it, and not continually force bad plays that are essentially turnovers.

No reason to surmise Eakins intent when he's stating it. Eakins is pretty open and concise with his post games. Were talking 12 minutes of standup answering questions and a guy not giving pad answers but actually stating something.

Trouble is Hemsky's game is individualistic as always, Hall still figuring out his game, and the experiment hasn't worked yet. Hall would do well to cycle the puck effectively. Thats a hope. Smyth can get a cycle game going if the line ever got it deep instead of trying to dance through 3 guys.

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10-02-2013, 10:46 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by GreatKeith View Post
It's part both. Smyth fell off a cliff somewhere after December of 2011 and hasn't been seen since. I think he has like 5 goals since that time. It's not that hard to score in this league but Smyth insists on trying the same thing over and over that hasn't worked since Andy Moog was the Stars' starter.
Stop, man. I agree that Smyth is now basically useless out there beyond about 2-3 minutes of PP time and 5-7 minutes of soft ES time, but the bolded part is beyond ridiculous.

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10-02-2013, 10:51 PM
  #485
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I probably could have phrased that better. I did say Eberle, Hall, Yak, are more talented. Then and now. Smyth is a plumber that managed to get 39 goals and has scored at least 30 several times. I dare say they'll be more 30 goal seasons in Smyths canon then Eberles. I see fall off with Eberle which happens to a lot of players once their tendencies are scouted. He's had a harder time since.
Eberle also had benefit of more years training before he hit tHe NHL, a privilege Ryan Smyth didn't have.
I'll say this too. Theres no way Eberle comes close to the +400 goals Smyth has scored in career. To put this in perspective Jordan would have to score 11 consecutive 30 goal years to come out where Smyth is in goals scored. I sincerely doubt Jordan lasts even that long as a player. I see a guy that could be stopped physically by age 30.

Eberle has all kinds of talent. But disappears and is fairly easily shutdown in games.
Completely absurd and no way to back it up. Eberle has been an elite level goal scorer every level he has played at. He scored at a 27 goal pace last year. Smyth scored 39 and didn't hit 20 again for 2 more seasons. He's had 4 30 goal seasons in his career.

It is absolutely impossible to determine how long Eberle will play in the league, but I can just as easily predict he will play until he is 40 because he knows how to avoid big hits and keeps his head up.

I didn't catch the rest of your post before I responded, but it is unfair to say how Eberle would react in a tough playoff series. We've never been in one. I will say one thing though, he had a broken finger last year and didn't miss a game. Now I'm sure you could try and brush it off, but I imagine it hurts a hell of a lot to break your finger and play night in and night out.

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10-02-2013, 11:06 PM
  #486
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Completely absurd and no way to back it up. Eberle has been an elite level goal scorer every level he has played at. He scored at a 27 goal pace last year. Smyth scored 39 and didn't hit 20 again for 2 more seasons. He's had 4 30 goal seasons in his career.

It is absolutely impossible to determine how long Eberle will play in the league, but I can just as easily predict he will play until he is 40 because he knows how to avoid big hits and keeps his head up.

I didn't catch the rest of your post before I responded, but it is unfair to say how Eberle would react in a tough playoff series. We've never been in one. I will say one thing though, he had a broken finger last year and didn't miss a game. Now I'm sure you could try and brush it off, but I imagine it hurts a hell of a lot to break your finger and play night in and night out.
Eberle is shy of physical contact and already playing like a shadow of what he did in 11-12. Clearly more of a peripheral game now. I think that will be the best year of his career and a fair amount of people in the blogoshphere hold this opinion of the player.

I think he won't stand up well to heavy traffic and constant damage. Just yesterday I was looking at him getting tossed in the boards continually and him picking himself back up. Wear already starting to show and it was most of last season. What was most striking last year, and last night, is how little resistance Eberle can offer in puck battles. He's beat as soon as theres a scrum.

Its not completely unfair to say how Eberle would react in a tough playoff series. He disappears against any team playing a unified system and physical game and which happened even at AHL level. Some teams were just shutting him down. This happened again just last Friday.

He's real good though at making hay against weaker efforts. I'll give him that. But a guy like that its questionable if he's ever there in the intense playoff games.

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10-02-2013, 11:13 PM
  #487
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Eberle is shy of physical contact and already playing like a shadow of what he did in 11-12. Clearly more of a peripheral game now. I think that will be the best year of his career and a fair amount of people in the blogoshphere hold this opinion of the player.

I think he won't stand up well to heavy traffic and constant damage. Just yesterday I was looking at him getting tossed in the boards continually and him picking himself back up. Wear already starting to show and it was most of last season. What was most striking last year, and last night, is how little resistance Eberle can offer in puck battles. He's beat as soon as theres a scrum.

Its not completely unfair to say how Eberle would react in a tough playoff series. He disappears against any team playing a unified system and physical game and which happened even at AHL level. Some teams were just shutting him down. This happened again just last Friday.

He's real good though at making hay against weaker efforts. I'll give him that. But a guy like that its questionable if he's ever there in the intense playoff games.
We'll see. The argument is pointless either way. Regardless of whether you like Eberle or not it has no basis on Ryan Smyth now. How Ryan Smyth battled against Darian Hatcher has no basis on him now.

I love Ryan Smyth. My favourite Oiler for years. I still rock his jersey to Oiler games. But the guy is a shadow of his former self. His past contributions don't matter anymore.

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10-02-2013, 11:14 PM
  #488
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Stop, man. I agree that Smyth is now basically useless out there beyond about 2-3 minutes of PP time and 5-7 minutes of soft ES time, but the bolded part is beyond ridiculous.
Did you see how many goals were scored yesterday?

Also I see the Avalanche are up 6-0 currently...

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10-02-2013, 11:22 PM
  #489
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We'll see. The argument is pointless either way. Regardless of whether you like Eberle or not it has no basis on Ryan Smyth now. How Ryan Smyth battled against Darian Hatcher has no basis on him now.

I love Ryan Smyth. My favourite Oiler for years. I still rock his jersey to Oiler games. But the guy is a shadow of his former self. His past contributions don't matter anymore.
Fair enough, thanks for the discussion.

You've detected dislike, and you wouldn't be wrong. I see a bit of a good time Jordan here.

A player content to pad stats, but not the least bit interested in playing a two way game and that has always had some considerable GA and positional problems. Eberle also content to throw the puck away trying to force a play several times a game. I like him best when he's working a simple cycle. But rather than do that I often see him verging on forcing one time passes instead of building a play and working to break down D.

This is an extremely talented player. But he cuts corners.

Its going to be really interesting when Eakins starts fully detecting how many times Eberle fails to peel back and finds himself in bad probability pinches while the puck is turning back the other way several times a night. I guarantee you Eakins will continue to question how somebody feels this is how you play hockey.

The key question is whether we can transform Eberle to a player that will do everything it takes to win.

I'm liking Eakins so far.


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10-02-2013, 11:24 PM
  #490
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Did you see how many goals were scored yesterday?

Also I see the Avalanche are up 6-0 currently...
Its seemingly difficutl for Anaheim to score..

Man, like I said, I don't see the Ducks being all that good this year. Losing Ryan is bigger than thought. Not enough trick ponies on this club.

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10-02-2013, 11:27 PM
  #491
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Its seemingly difficutl for Anaheim to score..

Man, like I said, I don't see the Ducks being all that good this year. Losing Ryan is bigger than thought. Not enough trick ponies on this club.
I agree. They didn't get any better in the off-season and trades/injuries have made them worse. I watched the highlights of the first goal and Beacheman just gifted O'Reilly a breakaway. Just awful stuff.

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10-03-2013, 01:28 AM
  #492
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My opinion on Ryan Smyth is this:

He is an all-time fan favourite. No question the face of the franchise for the first decade of the 21st century. I will always respect what he has done for the team and the city. He was a great player for the oilers and also as " Captain Canada".

That being said he is well passed his prime at this point. It really makes me hurt seeing him play out there. He is a shadow of his former self. The speed and hands just are not there anymore. There are still flashes when he has the puck down low or when he is in his signature spot in front of the net. It pains me that newer fans have only his work of the last couple years as a representation of his career.

Smyth is an oilers legend forever and always, but, his time has come and passed. I hope he can find a spot on the roster once Gagner and RNH can come back. But I really don't see a spot for him at this point.

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10-03-2013, 01:58 AM
  #493
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Smyth will be needed in the playoffs and hopefully stays fresh until then by not playing heavy minutes or sustaining any injuries during the regular season. In the post season the veteran leadership that Smytty brings will be a necessity.

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10-03-2013, 08:16 AM
  #494
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Smyth in his second year had 39 goals and 61 points.
Eberle in his second year had 34 goals and 76 points. He had a better offensive season than anything Ryan Smyth has done in a 17 year career.

Not to mention that Hall in his 3rd year finished with 50 points in 45 years and top 10 in NHL scoring, something Ryan Smyth has never even come close to flirting with.
I agree, Smyth can contribute if used properly. But him being used properly is him playing 8-10 minutes a night.
I bet Ebs never put up the following points:

1990-1991 BANFF BLAZERS-ABHL 25GP 100G 50A 150PTS


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10-03-2013, 09:56 AM
  #495
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it would be so nice if smyth were to get benched in favor of players who can play. I would rather see ryan jones in his spot right now. I don't like ryan jones.

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10-03-2013, 10:05 AM
  #496
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I bet Ebs never put up the following points:

1990-1991 BANFF BLAZERS-ABHL 25GP 100G 50A 150PTS

he almost did in the ahl lol

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10-03-2013, 10:31 AM
  #497
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I actually dont have an issue with Smyth being on the roster.. What ticks me off is media (especially Gregor\Spector) who continue to ignore his suckiness. According to 1260 there isnt any dropoff between Yakupov and Smyth since both were ineffective with Hall-Hemsky duo.

Just admit that Smyth doesnt belong on the top line and I am fine with him.

Eakins needs to snap out of it as well. He should have tried different combos in pre season.. Hemsky at LW makes sense but was never tried... Hemsky-Hall-Yak makes sense to me.

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10-03-2013, 10:32 AM
  #498
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Yeah, Dallas has a funny take on toi that forwards can endure in the NHL. He vastly overestimates it actually.
One unfortunate byproduct is we will see some players overextended and some with not enough minutes. I also expect shift durations to increase under Eaikns which is not a good thing. Krueger was very consistent in expecting short energy shifts.
So you are arriving at conclusions about how Eakins operates as an NHL coach and comparing him to Kruger after just 1 game.
Surely you see how flawed that is?


Quote:
Dallas is quoted yesterday suggesting that Hall should be able to play 27-28mins/night. That any forward in half decent shape should be able to. I think with this Eakins is wrong and is underestimating the battle and energy required in the NHL vs lesser leagues. Hall played 23 mins last night and that was too much for him.
I think we need to read between the lines here. Its not that surprising that there is going to be some discomfort for certain players while RNH and Gagner are out of the lineup. Eakins has 1 legit NHL centre at this point in time. I think he is just positioning this is such a way that projects that the team will be able to get by with what they have.
I dont think Hall will ever see 27-28 minutes a night but I do think he should be able to handle 23 minutes on a short term basis and 20 -22 minutes over the course of the season. Thats what the best forwards in the game play on average so it shouldn't be an issue for Hall once he is in his natural position which isnt centre.

Quote:
Some learning curves ahead but why do new guys so often try to reinvent the wheel? Maybe Eakins could take a peak at the amount of forwards in the NHL hovering around 27mins toi in regulation time games..

Smyth was overused yesterday, quite simple, and got worse as the game went along. The penalty being absolutely a result of Smyth being gassed on that particular shift.
I agree that Smyth had too much ice time and I am sure Eakins knows that as well. Maybe the message needs to get through to Smyth....its possible he may believe something different. If that was the case hopefully Smyth has seen the light and doesnt need any further evidence.
I think we agree that Smyth can still be an effective player if he plays closer to 10 minutes a night.
I dont see Eakins as a slow learner....I am confident that he will sort through this.
Lets give him at least 2 games.

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10-03-2013, 11:32 AM
  #499
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The sooner Smyth retires, the better. He's going to end up getting booed out of town and I would hate to see that.

He needs to retire with whatever dignity he has left before he loses it for good.

Smyth is awful to watch and he is by far the worst player on this roster.

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10-03-2013, 11:49 AM
  #500
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My concern is I'm looking at other top lines in other NHL rosters and the boatloads of younger talent at LW. And then I look at ours and I see Ryan Smyth.

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