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Old
10-03-2013, 08:29 AM
  #526
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
I have been saying this for a while. He is trying TOO hard to do exactly what people are telling him to do because he is unsure. Perfect example of how power forwards take longer to develop.



I agree. Always nice to see the Bob back
Paralysis by analysis. I have no doubt Kreider strongly wants to succeed, but when is it going to click that his overanalyzing makes him look like a slug out there?

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10-03-2013, 08:40 AM
  #527
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Paralysis by analysis. I have no doubt Kreider strongly wants to succeed, but when is it going to click that his overanalyzing makes him look like a slug out there?
Unknown. I know I have seen it from him before. He did the same thing as a Freshman at BC and I was hoping it would click in this years TC. Didn't happen until parts of the LA game I thought.

I'm not making excuses for him, just my observations.

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10-03-2013, 02:08 PM
  #528
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Is there a reason all you people are putting Callahan on the 3rd line, or is this more of "He'll have chemistry with so and so"? Seriously, lets not put Callahan on the 3rd line, unless we plan to use the 3rd line more than the second line.

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10-03-2013, 02:13 PM
  #529
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Is there a reason all you people are putting Callahan on the 3rd line, or is this more of "He'll have chemistry with so and so"? Seriously, lets not put Callahan on the 3rd line, unless we plan to use the 3rd line more than the second line.
Callahan is our 3rd best RW 5v5, why wouldn't we put him on the 3rd line?

I think he is the best player in the league in front of the net on the PP and a terrific PK:er, but his 5v5 game does leave a lot to desire especially offensively.

Callahan on the 3rd line would still receive ~20minute a night thanks to special teams.

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10-03-2013, 02:13 PM
  #530
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I don't think playing a guy like Callahan 24 minutes a game (Which is frequently what it comes to with 2nd line, top PP and PK duty) helps his game at all.

Callahan on the 3rd line would still log 19-21 minutes a game. I fail to see how that's an issue.

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10-03-2013, 02:18 PM
  #531
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I feel like the way our team is set up once we get Callahan and Hagelin back we'll have a 1B line, 2 2nd lines, and a 4th line. I think we'll see AV roll the top 3 lines very equally and roll the 4th often as well. Hopefully that keeps some of our top guys fresher than Torts who was pretty notorious for keeping the 4th line glued

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10-03-2013, 02:36 PM
  #532
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10-03-2013, 02:38 PM
  #533
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Wonder how they play in their first real season game. Probably shaky for the first period but still. Hope they get to a great start

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10-03-2013, 02:39 PM
  #534
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Guess it's better than his original nickname for him: nooner.

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10-03-2013, 02:43 PM
  #535
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And Staal+MDZ is a garbage line... McD should be playing with MDZ, Staal with Girardi
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
I don't think playing a guy like Callahan 24 minutes a game (Which is frequently what it comes to with 2nd line, top PP and PK duty) helps his game at all.

Callahan on the 3rd line would still log 19-21 minutes a game. I fail to see how that's an issue.
Callahan has never played 24 minutes per game. Ever. His highest for a season is 21:30, and that's this past season. Bumping him down, even if it's 2 total minutes to 19 minutes, is a downgrade for a guy who is one of your best players. I fail to see, by the way, how if your first and second line wingers are eating up 20-23 minutes per game Callahan is still going to be playing 20 minutes. Simple math shows that's not possible.

If AV wants to have a 3rd line that's purely defensive, then have your 4th act as a limited-role scoring line.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Richards-Brassard-Callahan
Moore-Boyle-Fast
Pouliot-Miller-MZA
Pyatt/Dorsett

Obviously this is dependent on how MZA plays during his shot at the top 6. If he tears it up and Richards looks like garbage, have Richards center that 4th line and keep MZA in the top 6. There's a lot you can do with this roster, but cutting Ryan Callahan's minutes isn't something we should be discussing.

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10-03-2013, 02:52 PM
  #536
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Callahan is our 3rd best RW 5v5, why wouldn't we put him on the 3rd line?

I think he is the best player in the league in front of the net on the PP and a terrific PK:er, but his 5v5 game does leave a lot to desire especially offensively.

Callahan on the 3rd line would still receive ~20minute a night thanks to special teams.
Who is the 2nd best??

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10-03-2013, 02:59 PM
  #537
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Originally Posted by petejudge View Post
Callahan has never played 24 minutes per game. Ever. His highest for a season is 21:30, and that's this past season. Bumping him down, even if it's 2 total minutes to 19 minutes, is a downgrade for a guy who is one of your best players. I fail to see, by the way, how if your first and second line wingers are eating up 20-23 minutes per game Callahan is still going to be playing 20 minutes. Simple math shows that's not possible.

If AV wants to have a 3rd line that's purely defensive, then have your 4th act as a limited-role scoring line.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Richards-Brassard-Callahan
Moore-Boyle-Fast
Pouliot-Miller-MZA
Pyatt/Dorsett

Obviously this is dependent on how MZA plays during his shot at the top 6. If he tears it up and Richards looks like garbage, have Richards center that 4th line and keep MZA in the top 6. There's a lot you can do with this roster, but cutting Ryan Callahan's minutes isn't something we should be discussing.
Callahan shouldn't get top-6 5v5 minutes on a good team, he isn't driving play or scoring enough for that. As earlier stated, he should play big PP and PK minutes but if he is in the top-6 you don't have good enough depth.

Luckily it seems like we do when everyone is healthy: Nash, Hags, Zucc, Pouliot, maybe even Richards, should all get more time and offensive roles than Callahan 5v5.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello
Richards-Miller-Callahan
Boyle/Pyatt-Moore/Boyle-Dorsett/Pyatt

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10-03-2013, 02:59 PM
  #538
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Who is the 2nd best??
Zuccarello. That's 5v5, not overall and of course my opinion.

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10-03-2013, 03:20 PM
  #539
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Zuccarello. That's 5v5, not overall and of course my opinion.
I would agree if Callahan wasn't a better player in almost every conceivable way.

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10-03-2013, 03:26 PM
  #540
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I would agree if Callahan wasn't a better player in almost every conceivable way.
Maybe it is just me, but I prefer the player with whom we score more goals, spend more time in the offensive zone, create more chances, allow fewer chances against, concede less goals. But that's just me.

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10-03-2013, 03:27 PM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Maybe it is just me, but I prefer the player with whom we score more goals, spend more time in the offensive zone, create more chances, allow fewer chances against, concede less goals. But that's just me.
Do your stats take into account who the player plays against?

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10-03-2013, 03:33 PM
  #542
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Originally Posted by NYR Viper View Post
Do your stats take into account who the player plays against?
Yes they do. But it doesn't differ as much as most believe. Players who play more than 11-12 5v5 minutes per game end up seeing similarly difficult opposition.

Plus you have to look at teammates as well, which has a big impact. Zuccarello raises the game of his teammates, Callahan has the oposite effect.

But it isn't just the stats, it is quite obvious when you watch the games as well. It's easy to notice that when Zucc is on the ice the Rangers are usually on the attack, creating chances. While we are chasing the puck a lot more when Callahan is on. And as I said earlier, it has less to do with opposition than most think.

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10-03-2013, 03:44 PM
  #543
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Players flame out all the time because they are unwilling to do the work or put in the effort needed to play up to their potential.

In fact it is so commonly seen, in pretty much every aspect of every sport, that I have no idea how anyone could possibly come to any other conclusion.

When Kreider skates and is involved he has always been, at every level, successful. When he floats around and is a passenger he has had significantly less success.

Its not a particularly complicated equation.
Since it is a common occurence there must be quite a few players who fail because of lack of motivation. Specific players?

Fans often think that the bigger players are not trying or are not motivated. Funny how that is rarely the case with the smaller players.

That you think you are aware of what is going on in a player's psyche is laughable to me.


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10-03-2013, 03:46 PM
  #544
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Brian Boyle on Boomer and Cartoon yesterday



http://snyrangersblog.com/2013-14/20...ce=twitterfeed
BBBBBBBUT I thought it was lack of motivation!

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10-03-2013, 03:54 PM
  #545
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Plus you have to look at teammates as well, which has a big impact. Zuccarello raises the game of his teammates, Callahan has the oposite effect.
Callahan the Captain and emotional leader of the Rangers does not raise the game of his teammates? That's what the numbers say eh? That to me proves again that while stats are nice they ain't everything. Just my 2 cents, not trying to flame you are entitled to your opinion.

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10-03-2013, 03:58 PM
  #546
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Zuccarello. That's 5v5, not overall and of course my opinion.
Zucc is better than Callahan at being short and in shootouts.

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10-03-2013, 04:08 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
Callahan shouldn't get top-6 5v5 minutes on a good team, he isn't driving play or scoring enough for that. As earlier stated, he should play big PP and PK minutes but if he is in the top-6 you don't have good enough depth.

Luckily it seems like we do when everyone is healthy: Nash, Hags, Zucc, Pouliot, maybe even Richards, should all get more time and offensive roles than Callahan 5v5.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello
Richards-Miller-Callahan
Boyle/Pyatt-Moore/Boyle-Dorsett/Pyatt
He has either led or been in the top 3 of NYR forwards in TOI/game the last 4 seasons. He doesn't average 24 over a season, but it is still very high and in many games, especially tight ones, we saw him log 24+.

If he was on the third line, he would still be in the top 3 forwards in TOI/game on our team, in my estimation. He plays pretty doggone close to a full 50% of all our special teams minutes. That's a lot.

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10-03-2013, 04:37 PM
  #548
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Callahan the Captain and emotional leader of the Rangers does not raise the game of his teammates? That's what the numbers say eh? That to me proves again that while stats are nice they ain't everything. Just my 2 cents, not trying to flame you are entitled to your opinion.
I'm talking about on-ice impact, not some intangible "Callahan is so inspirational that I'll go that extra mile" ********. I'm talking about raising the game by making a good zone entry and set up play in the offensive zone to create scoring chances. Or keeping puck possession as to not let the other team get a chance to score. Making a good play in the NZ stealing the puck or forcing the other team to dump it in. I.E. tilting the ice in the favor of our team.

These "they wanted it more" are just BS stories made up to explain events after the fact. If Team A outshot them 45-16, but Team B won 1-2, we always hear afterwards: "they just wanted it more out there". BS, they got lucky. They all want it just as much, they wouldn't be in the NHL otherwise. All humans have a natural bias toward such stories so it isn't surprising that they exist and are so prevalent.

You win hockey games by outscoring the other team, not by "showing more heart". Which incidentally I'd Zuccarello does as much as any player in the league, fearlessly going after players twice his size. He is going to get one hell of a beating sooner or later.

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Zucc is better than Callahan at being short and in shootouts.
He is!

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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
He has either led or been in the top 3 of NYR forwards in TOI/game the last 4 seasons. He doesn't average 24 over a season, but it is still very high and in many games, especially tight ones, we saw him log 24+.

If he was on the third line, he would still be in the top 3 forwards in TOI/game on our team, in my estimation. He plays pretty doggone close to a full 50% of all our special teams minutes. That's a lot.
Exactly. I'm not saying play Callahan 14 minutes a night, I'm saying primarily utilize him where he is the most effective.

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10-03-2013, 04:42 PM
  #549
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Callahan is an established 60-point guy. Zuccarello is not better than him. Jeez.

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10-03-2013, 04:44 PM
  #550
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Zuccarello. That's 5v5, not overall and of course my opinion.
Zucc is better than Callahan at being short and in shootouts.

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