HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Hockey Fights
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Hockey Fights Discuss and rate hockey fights and fighters of today and from the past. Videos welcome!

End of fighting in the NHL?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-02-2013, 10:33 PM
  #301
canucksfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 27,327
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
The funny thing about Yzerman and Bowman's comments are the fact that if it weren't for fighting, that generation of Red Wings perhaps may not have won a Cup. Don't believe me? Flashback to March 26, 1997. The Avs won the Cup in 1996 at the expense of Detroit. The Wings were a team that choked at that time, and were deemed to be soft. The Avs were the best team in the NHL in the 1996-'97 season. Claude Lemieux had pasted Kris Draper from behind in the 1996 postseason and no one did anything about it, until March 26, 1997. I'd like to say Darren McCarty started it, but he didn't. Igor Larionov did. He got fed up with Forsberg and tackled him. It was at this point McCarty slugged Lemieux. Lemieux turtled. Roy didn't like seeing this and bolted to center ice where Shanahan did the most famous clothesline in history. Vernon comes to center ice and fights Roy. Roy ends up bloodied. Forsberg ends up bloodied. Lemieux ends up bloodied. The crwod goes nuts. Bowman is seen on the bench liking what he sees. The Wings win the game in overtime and two months later beat the Avs in the playoffs. Chokers no more. Three Cups in 6 years, two at the expense of the Avs. Up until March 26, 1997 the Wings were a bit of pushovers. That changed on that day.

So please, to anyone out there, read this paragraph and explain to me how fighting didn't help the best team we've seen in 25 years and how they got the upper edge on the best rivalry we've seen in at least 20 years.
That was an awesome rivalry. However, the game has changed. Most, if not all, of your examples your pre lockout. During the 70's the Broad Street Bullies would beat up their opposition. When Robinson beat the crap out of Schultz that was a huge moment for the Habs.

This is where the main difference occurs. I don't see fighting as an important element in the game. It was at one point, but the game has evolved to where it is more of a sideshow.

canucksfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-02-2013, 10:42 PM
  #302
canucksfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 27,327
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
So do didn't like my examples of all the players who have dropped the gloves time and time again over a span of years can carry on with their normal lives, have good jobs and still be smart men outside of hockey? But the second a Boogey comes along and a Probert who can't keep anything out of his nose all of the sudden the big dark enemy is fighting? I'm telling you, it is how you handle your role that defines you. You really want to curb player safety sign a petition to get body checking out of the game. Nothing is more dangerous than an open ice check. Two guys dropping the mitts at least see it coming.
Your examples are fine. There are examples of fighters who have had rough lives, some due to fighting some not. While Probert was a substance abuse user, his brain had CTE. The CTE was caused from concussions. Deadmarsh never played again after a fight. Grimson had concussions from them. A Kings player hit the ice and he got severe concussion.

The open ice hits to the head are illegal. I don't need to start a petition. Show me a few open ice hits post lockout where the head was not the initial point of contact and there was a severe concussion. I can't think of any. I could be wrong.

Quote:
You aren't ever going to make players safe in a game where there are grown men playing in cramped confines with no out of bounds but just glass and boards. A game where they carry a stick, a game where they shoot a puck as hard as possible. And a game where tempers flare. But if you really want to keep players safe, let's start with the stars of the game, the Crosbys, the Stamkoses. You want to keep these guys safe, make sure the threat of a fight from an enforcer is present so that there aren't liberties taken against them.
Baseball is a safe sport and there are still injuries. I am worried about brain injuries. That has been my point from square one. We have seen the affects of brain injuries in the NFL. I don't want players killing themselves in their 30's and 40's. The extreme rare case, I don't want a Chris Benoit situation. That could have happened with Probert or Derek.Hits to the head are illegal and carry a severe penalty. Look at Torres. You claim that Yzerman was protected which he was. Why wouldn't he get protection for Stamkos? You know why, he realizes the game has changed. Ray Shero, son of Fred Shero, doesn't have an enforcer for Crosby. Why? He has realized the game has changed. Big Mac was waived last year.

canucksfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 12:19 AM
  #303
91akarst*
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 18
vCash: 500
I hope fighting is not on its way out, its what got me interested in hockey in the first place. If it does get eliminated, it will be for money not no suits caring about "player safety." People around seem to be delusioned with the thought that lawers running the league actually care about the saftey of players. The world evolves around money, the NHL is no different.

The reason the NFL/NHL is taking a hard stance against concussions is for the simple fact of insurance companies wont be quick to cover concussions anymore instead sending the bill to the owners. Plus going to court for HUNDREDS of millions of dollars dont help either. "Player Safety" is just a nice way of covering greed from the leagues side and come off as the good guy in the public. Which judging from posts on here, are doing a damn good job.

One last thing, why are so many fans so concerned about player saftey in the first place?

The way I see it, most of you dont know the players on personal level to warrant these concerns. Further more, they are getting paid quite well to play a CONTACT sport while there are 900 million people starving in the world. Where is your concern for that?Plus they are adults, most are well aware of the risks playing this game. None of us are pointing a gun at their dome forcing them to have a profession where concussion risks are really high.

The only fighting ban in hockey I will back is in Juniors and below. Not the No Hit League.

91akarst* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 08:19 AM
  #304
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 44,018
vCash: 500
what's a fighting ban? fighting is "banned" in the other sports and they still fight. banning fighting bans the unnecessary fights because they aren't worth it. any fight really worth having will continue to happen.

btw...banning fighting in junior will lessen fighting in the nhl because junior players that are there for their fighting talent and not their hockey talent will no longer get a roster spot.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 03:58 PM
  #305
91akarst*
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 18
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
btw...banning fighting in junior will lessen fighting in the nhl because junior players that are there for their fighting talent and not their hockey talent will no longer get a roster spot.
Im not a fan of it but completey understand if people want thier kids not to fight. i also understand the trickle effect this will have on professional leagues.

91akarst* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 05:16 PM
  #306
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
That was an awesome rivalry. However, the game has changed. Most, if not all, of your examples your pre lockout. During the 70's the Broad Street Bullies would beat up their opposition. When Robinson beat the crap out of Schultz that was a huge moment for the Habs.

This is where the main difference occurs. I don't see fighting as an important element in the game. It was at one point, but the game has evolved to where it is more of a sideshow.
The 2007 Ducks, the 2011 Bruins. These were Cup winners that fought a lot. Anaheim led the NHL in fights did they not in 2007? There was a spike in fighting in the NHL in 2007-'08 just because teams loaded up more on toughness. The Bruins are well known for their bruising and nearly won the Cup in 2013. This whole "the game has changed" mentality is nonsense especially when I am talking about 1997 and more importantly, a few months ago. The game has barely changed at all. In 1976 the Flyers were running the NHL. Two straight Cup wins, beating the snot out of the Russians and then another Cup final appearance in 1976. Robinson tamed them. Did he do it because he was nice and asked politely? Heck no. He was tough, he labelled Gary Doernofer with one of the best hits of all-time and his ability to drop the gloves meant the Flyers couldn't push teams around. Fighting was important then too. It has the exact same role today. A small part of the game, but certainly a part of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Your examples are fine. There are examples of fighters who have had rough lives, some due to fighting some not. While Probert was a substance abuse user, his brain had CTE. The CTE was caused from concussions. Deadmarsh never played again after a fight. Grimson had concussions from them. A Kings player hit the ice and he got severe concussion.

The open ice hits to the head are illegal. I don't need to start a petition. Show me a few open ice hits post lockout where the head was not the initial point of contact and there was a severe concussion. I can't think of any. I could be wrong.
You know, nothing is stopping any of these guys from packing it in at 28-29 years old instead of playing into their 30s if they think their head is taking a licking. I realize it is hard to pass up that kind of money, but Brett Lindros did it. These guys have a choice, know it is a violent game and with the money they make in the few seasons they are able to go to school, buy a business and do anything they want for the rest of their life. Sell insurance, go to law school, etc. Be an analyst on TV. Steve Young and Troy Aikman both ended their careers because of concussions and both are analysts in the NFL. They knew it was time to go and didn't want to risk any damage to their brain. I don't blame them. But they know that every time the ball was snapped back to them there was a linebacker wanting to shove them to the ground. That's a tough business, but you can back out of it if you need to. They have the money where they can never work a day in their life again if they choose.

As for what you said about players that had to retire due to a fight, that is a small amount of players you mentioned, considering the rest of the reasons players need to retire due to injuries. Fighting barely scratches the surface that way.

Quote:
Baseball is a safe sport and there are still injuries. I am worried about brain injuries. That has been my point from square one. We have seen the affects of brain injuries in the NFL. I don't want players killing themselves in their 30's and 40's. The extreme rare case, I don't want a Chris Benoit situation. That could have happened with Probert or Derek.Hits to the head are illegal and carry a severe penalty. Look at Torres. You claim that Yzerman was protected which he was. Why wouldn't he get protection for Stamkos? You know why, he realizes the game has changed. Ray Shero, son of Fred Shero, doesn't have an enforcer for Crosby. Why? He has realized the game has changed. Big Mac was waived last year.
This is a huge mistake Shero is making. But that's another story for the Penguins. You have the best player in the last decade and you allow him to be picked on the way he's been for 8 years? Whatever, I'm not the GM. His dad wouldn't have stood for that for a second though.

And no one wants a Chris Benoit situation. However, from the beginning most hockey guys are good people. Some get themselves into trouble but you can't let a couple of isolated incidents paint a picture for these guys. We barely have legal problems off the ice in the NHL with players. In the NFL you can't go a week without one of them getting arrested. What is a "bad boy" in the NHL? A picture of Patrick Kane partying and drinking with some friends. You are worrying too much about things.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 05:35 PM
  #307
Bring Godard Back
Registered User
 
Bring Godard Back's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,587
vCash: 500
I have lost a lot respect for Ray Shero stating that fighting should be banned from the sport. This is the same GM who has acquire players such as Eric Godard, Deryk Engelland, Steve MacIntyre, Arron Asham, Georges Laraque, Jesse Boulerice and Eric Cairns.

I am wondering if his opinion on fighting is largely due to Mario Lemieux's comments on the fight filled Islanders and Penguins game. Ever since Mario made those comments, the Penguins have gotten softer as the seasons have passed.

Bring Godard Back is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 05:52 PM
  #308
canucksfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 27,327
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
The 2007 Ducks, the 2011 Bruins. These were Cup winners that fought a lot. Anaheim led the NHL in fights did they not in 2007? There was a spike in fighting in the NHL in 2007-'08 just because teams loaded up more on toughness. The Bruins are well known for their bruising and nearly won the Cup in 2013. This whole "the game has changed" mentality is nonsense especially when I am talking about 1997 and more importantly, a few months ago. The game has barely changed at all. In 1976 the Flyers were running the NHL. Two straight Cup wins, beating the snot out of the Russians and then another Cup final appearance in 1976. Robinson tamed them. Did he do it because he was nice and asked politely? Heck no. He was tough, he labelled Gary Doernofer with one of the best hits of all-time and his ability to drop the gloves meant the Flyers couldn't push teams around. Fighting was important then too. It has the exact same role today. A small part of the game, but certainly a part of the game.
Both teams were tough but they were also skilled. How did fighting help them win the Cup? Anaheim had four fights in the playoffs. Three of them were against Minnesota. How did fighting help them win against Vancouver? Detroit? Ottawa?

Boston had 5 fights during their cup run. No enforcers fought. How did these five fights contribute to their Cup win? Did fighting stop Aaron Rome from cleaning Horton's clock? Did fighting stop Burrows from biting Bergeron? Did fighting stop Lapierre from acting like a goof?

Quote:
You know, nothing is stopping any of these guys from packing it in at 28-29 years old instead of playing into their 30s if they think their head is taking a licking. I realize it is hard to pass up that kind of money, but Brett Lindros did it. These guys have a choice, know it is a violent game and with the money they make in the few seasons they are able to go to school, buy a business and do anything they want for the rest of their life. Sell insurance, go to law school, etc. Be an analyst on TV. Steve Young and Troy Aikman both ended their careers because of concussions and both are analysts in the NFL. They knew it was time to go and didn't want to risk any damage to their brain. I don't blame them. But they know that every time the ball was snapped back to them there was a linebacker wanting to shove them to the ground. That's a tough business, but you can back out of it if you need to. They have the money where they can never work a day in their life again if they choose.

As for what you said about players that had to retire due to a fight, that is a small amount of players you mentioned, considering the rest of the reasons players need to retire due to injuries. Fighting barely scratches the surface that way.
The NHL has a duty to protect its players. Some players won't quit. Some players will play with injuries. Look at Maholtra. He has a terrible eye injury but he still wanted to play. After getting his clocked clean by a clean open ice hit, Gillis figured that was enough. Manny with good eye sight would have seen that hit coming.


Quote:
This is a huge mistake Shero is making. But that's another story for the Penguins. You have the best player in the last decade and you allow him to be picked on the way he's been for 8 years? Whatever, I'm not the GM. His dad wouldn't have stood for that for a second though.

And no one wants a Chris Benoit situation. However, from the beginning most hockey guys are good people. Some get themselves into trouble but you can't let a couple of isolated incidents paint a picture for these guys. We barely have legal problems off the ice in the NHL with players. In the NFL you can't go a week without one of them getting arrested. What is a "bad boy" in the NHL? A picture of Patrick Kane partying and drinking with some friends. You are worrying too much about things.
Crosby has had Laraque, Rupp, Godard and Macintrye. Three of those players were/are some of the best enforcers in the game. They didn't help at all. MacIntrye played about 12 games then he was cut. Which shows me enforcers aren't needed. If Crosby wanted one, I am sure Shero would get one.

Chris Benoit was a good person. His brain was in terrible shape from all the trauma it endured.

Quote:
After the double-murder suicide, former wrestler Christopher Nowinski contacted Michael Benoit, father of Chris Benoit, suggesting that years of trauma to his son's brain may have led to his actions. Tests were conducted on Benoit's brain by Julian Bailes, the head of neurosurgery at West Virginia University, and results showed that "Benoit's brain was so severely damaged it resembled the brain of an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient. He was reported to have had an advanced form of dementia, similar to the brains of four retired NFL players who had suffered multiple concussions, sank into depression, and harmed themselves or others. Bailes and his colleagues concluded that repeated concussions can lead to dementia, which can contribute to severe behavioral problems
While there is no smoking gun evidence to show that brain trauma caused the Benoit situation, there is strong evidence to suggest thr brain trauma lead to his murder suicide.


Last edited by canucksfan: 10-03-2013 at 06:01 PM.
canucksfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 07:21 PM
  #309
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Both teams were tough but they were also skilled. How did fighting help them win the Cup? Anaheim had four fights in the playoffs. Three of them were against Minnesota. How did fighting help them win against Vancouver? Detroit? Ottawa?

Boston had 5 fights during their cup run. No enforcers fought. How did these five fights contribute to their Cup win? Did fighting stop Aaron Rome from cleaning Horton's clock? Did fighting stop Burrows from biting Bergeron? Did fighting stop Lapierre from acting like a goof?
I did mention that they led the NHL in fights during the regular season. The last Cup winning team to do this was the 1975 Flyers, if I am correct. They didn't fight outside of the first round much for the reason that they had already set the tone before hand. The 1974 Flyers/Bruins Cup final should have had bench clearing brawls, yet it didn't. O'Reilly and Schultz had the only series fighting major. Why is this? A tone was set, a mood was set. Neither team came into the Cup final with a wimpy reputation and each team knew this. Therefore the mere threat of a fight made each team behave. See, Anaheim did this already in the regular season. They were a tough, tough team in 2007. Look at the names of the guys who could drop the gloves: Parros, O'Brien, Thornton, Moen, Pronger, May. They had already established the reputation of instilling fear into the other team. This team is the best team since the Broad Street Bullies to combine skill and intimidation for a Cup win.

The 2011 Bruins were sort of the same way. Lucic, Chara, and again, Shawn Thornton. Not to mention there were lots of fisticuffs in the 2011 final. Lots of roughing penalties. Do you think near the end of Game 6 it was an accident that the Sedins were on the ice at the same time as Marchand and Thornton? Nope. The team got better once Thornton was inserted into the line up. They tested the Canucks, and the Canucks failed horribly. Game 3 had lots of fights, geez, Tim Thomas purposely came out of his net to body check Sedin. Rarely has there been a softer team that has gotten so far in a playoff year than the Canucks. But it caught up with them.


Quote:
Crosby has had Laraque, Rupp, Godard and Macintrye. Three of those players were/are some of the best enforcers in the game. They didn't help at all. MacIntrye played about 12 games then he was cut. Which shows me enforcers aren't needed. If Crosby wanted one, I am sure Shero would get one.
You would think, but not if he has the mindset he says he does. Laraque wasn't around very long, that was a smart pick-up a la Semenko for Gretzky, but it didn't last. You dont need to be dropping the gloves every game to make a point though. It is the deterrent factor that keeps players behaving. Think of an enforcer as a disciplinarian. Or a parent.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 07:22 PM
  #310
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,210
vCash: 500
Look, canucksfan, sorry about your luck, but this is an issue that will be dead in a couple of days, if it isn't already. There are new games everyday being played and even the people with the anti-fighting agenda take time off. Nothing is, or should, be done about the game right now.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 07:45 PM
  #311
mygameworn
Registered User
 
mygameworn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Connecticut
Country: United States
Posts: 1,970
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to mygameworn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket Tocchet View Post
I have lost a lot respect for Ray Shero stating that fighting should be banned from the sport. This is the same GM who has acquire players such as Eric Godard, Deryk Engelland, Steve MacIntyre, Arron Asham, Georges Laraque, Jesse Boulerice and Eric Cairns.

I am wondering if his opinion on fighting is largely due to Mario Lemieux's comments on the fight filled Islanders and Penguins game. Ever since Mario made those comments, the Penguins have gotten softer as the seasons have passed.

I thought the same thing. It was Shero's chance to come out against fighting and have a scapegoat in Lemieux if there was backlash.

mygameworn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-03-2013, 11:08 PM
  #312
canucksfan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: British Columbia
Posts: 27,327
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
I did mention that they led the NHL in fights during the regular season. The last Cup winning team to do this was the 1975 Flyers, if I am correct. They didn't fight outside of the first round much for the reason that they had already set the tone before hand. The 1974 Flyers/Bruins Cup final should have had bench clearing brawls, yet it didn't. O'Reilly and Schultz had the only series fighting major. Why is this? A tone was set, a mood was set. Neither team came into the Cup final with a wimpy reputation and each team knew this. Therefore the mere threat of a fight made each team behave. See, Anaheim did this already in the regular season. They were a tough, tough team in 2007. Look at the names of the guys who could drop the gloves: Parros, O'Brien, Thornton, Moen, Pronger, May. They had already established the reputation of instilling fear into the other team. This team is the best team since the Broad Street Bullies to combine skill and intimidation for a Cup win.
Again using examples from the 70's. The game has changed so much since then. Give me an example of when their opponents were scared of Anaheim.

Quote:
The 2011 Bruins were sort of the same way. Lucic, Chara, and again, Shawn Thornton. Not to mention there were lots of fisticuffs in the 2011 final. Lots of roughing penalties. Do you think near the end of Game 6 it was an accident that the Sedins were on the ice at the same time as Marchand and Thornton? Nope. The team got better once Thornton was inserted into the line up. They tested the Canucks, and the Canucks failed horribly. Game 3 had lots of fights, geez, Tim Thomas purposely came out of his net to body check Sedin. Rarely has there been a softer team that has gotten so far in a playoff year than the Canucks. But it caught up with them.
What tone was set? Burrows bit Bergeron. Laperrie was acting like a goof. Rome nailed Horton. Clearly the regular season meant jack.

What got the Bruins going was Lapierre acting like a goof. Pierre McGuire said so. There was only one fight in Game 3 and it was a huge fest. Chicago was softer last year and they beat the Bruins. The Nucks pushed the series to game 7 despite having injuries to Edler, Ehrhoff, Bieska, Kesler, Hamhuis, Samuelsson and a suspended Rome.

Quote:
You would think, but not if he has the mindset he says he does. Laraque wasn't around very long, that was a smart pick-up a la Semenko for Gretzky, but it didn't last. You dont need to be dropping the gloves every game to make a point though. It is the deterrent factor that keeps players behaving. Think of an enforcer as a disciplinarian. Or a parent.
In 07-08 Georges played 71 games. In 08-09 Godard played 71 games. In 09-10 Rupp played 81 games. Rupp played 81 games in 10-11. They have had at least one enforcer for the majority of Crosby's career. If Crosby wanted one they would get one. If Shero wanted one they would get one. If Mario wanted one they would get one. They must feel it is a waste of a roster space.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Look, canucksfan, sorry about your luck, but this is an issue that will be dead in a couple of days, if it isn't already. There are new games everyday being played and even the people with the anti-fighting agenda take time off. Nothing is, or should, be done about the game right now.
What luck? This issue will still be in the news in a couple of days.

canucksfan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-04-2013, 09:10 AM
  #313
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
Again using examples from the 70's. The game has changed so much since then. Give me an example of when their opponents were scared of Anaheim.
What I was trying to tie together, was that in a Cup final with the Broad Street Bullies and the Bruins in 1974 there was only one fight on record. These teams behaved.

If you want an exact quote from a player saying how scared they were of Anaheim in the mold of "the bus would shake" in Philadelphia then I can't think of one off the top of my head, but I don't need to. It is commonly believed that Anaheim coupled skill and intimidation for their Cup win. Probably the best team to do this since the Flyers. This is the type of team Brian Burke intentionally built. This is the type of team the Maple Leafs were supposed to be, or that he was trying to do, which is starting to work out rather well now for them. Obviously a Stanley Cup winning GM sees the need for intimidation in the game. Who am I to counter that?

Quote:
What tone was set? Burrows bit Bergeron. Laperrie was acting like a goof. Rome nailed Horton. Clearly the regular season meant jack.

What got the Bruins going was Lapierre acting like a goof. Pierre McGuire said so. There was only one fight in Game 3 and it was a huge fest. Chicago was softer last year and they beat the Bruins. The Nucks pushed the series to game 7 despite having injuries to Edler, Ehrhoff, Bieska, Kesler, Hamhuis, Samuelsson and a suspended Rome.
I certainly wouldn't say Chicago was softer in 2013 than the Canucks in 2011. That Canucks team was a cream puff of a team, I'm sorry. They had a lot of skill, which is how they got that far, but once the Sedins felt any sort of pressure or brut intimidation they folded up like a lawn chair. In case you forgot, you can check their stats against Boston. I'm sorry about your luck, but intimidation is still a very important aspect of hockey. This isn't tennis.

Quote:
In 07-08 Georges played 71 games. In 08-09 Godard played 71 games. In 09-10 Rupp played 81 games. Rupp played 81 games in 10-11. They have had at least one enforcer for the majority of Crosby's career. If Crosby wanted one they would get one. If Shero wanted one they would get one. If Mario wanted one they would get one. They must feel it is a waste of a roster space.
I would go the Glen Sather route if I were Shero. If I had assets like Crosby and Malkin I would protect my investment the best I could. Its his team, but does Crosby lose his front teeth from Hatcher if a legitimate enforcer is on the team?

Quote:
What luck? This issue will still be in the news in a couple of days.
Hockey goes on, it keeps being played and the players do what they have to do to police themselves. Ask Iginla, he took it upon himself last night. There will be a new wave as soon as the next guy gets hurt in a fight, I'll give it two months, and then the media will be on it again like a fat kid on a smartie, but they'll take a break. In fact, it's died down already. You and I are the only ones really talking on this thread. Look at the other threads on this board, all people are talking about is the other fights that have happened since.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 08:09 AM
  #314
Garl
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,912
vCash: 500
This whole ban fighting issue kinda shows how the politics work. I mean, 99% of population(players) want fighting to be left alone, but politicians(GMs) try to push their agenda despite such overwhelming pro-fighting stance. All of this has nothing to do with safety, but is rather political, to win some new fans by getting rid of "violent" label.

Garl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-05-2013, 08:10 PM
  #315
Tyler Biggs*
Go Leafs Go!
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,884
vCash: 500
With no fighting you can expect the stick-work to increase and the targeting of the skilled guys. With no accountability for their actions guys like Matt Cooke, Raffi Torres and Patrick Kaleta start targeting the Crosby's and Stamko's of the league.

I saw a person be carried away on a stretcher once after he slipped on the ice while skating. Maybe we should just eliminate skating and hockey all together? I know, let's make the whole world padded so there can never be an injury to anyone at work again. Fighting is a wonderfully entertaining and intense part of hockey, and Parros makes a GREAT living doing it. He probably wouldn't even be wealthy if there wasn't fighting in the sport. I'm getting really annoyed at how soft and sensitive people and society is becoming.

We have this discussion too much. Fighting is part of the game. Deal with it. Case closed...

Tyler Biggs* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2013, 02:12 AM
  #316
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 15,519
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
This is a huge mistake Shero is making. But that's another story for the Penguins. You have the best player in the last decade and you allow him to be picked on the way he's been for 8 years? Whatever, I'm not the GM. His dad wouldn't have stood for that for a second though.
The season Crosby got hurt, the Penguins lead the league in fights. Rupp, Asham, and Engelland were every-night players. Godard played about half the games he wasn't on IR (broken hand and broken orbital). Didn't really matter.

While I'm a big believer in fights as disencouraging overly physical play, Crosby hasn't really been a victim of that in his career. Orpik hit him with a slapshot, Steckel's an uncoordinated, tunnel-visioned clod (who once made a near identical "hit" on Backstrom during a linechange...they were teammates) and Hedman (who is possibly the softest player in the league) made a hit that wasn't particularly juicy and likely would have done bupkiss without the Steckel collision.

There was some early stuff with Hatcher, but that ended when Hatcher was like a minus 5 one game and Stevens(? might have been Hitchcock) started actively avoiding that matchup.

I guess Crosby was punched by Chara in this year's playoffs, but I don't know what you're suggesting should have been done about that. If MacIntyre would have been dressed and sent for retribution, the refs would have just chucked him on a phantom misconduct before he could have done anything.

I know this because the referees did exactly that to save Chris Neil (who had some beef with Brooks Orpik) from MacIntyre earlier in the season. If they won't let MacIntyre get at the likes of Neil, they surely wouldn't have let him get at a Norris winner.

billybudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2013, 08:35 AM
  #317
Elite Scout
Rookie User
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanji View Post
I hope so.
Fighting has evolved into a sideshow that serves little purpose. The best and most intense hockey of the year, playoffs, has virtually no fighting.
I totally Agee with the above statement. The game is deteriorating with these staged fights which are sanctioned by the league, the owners, and the coaches. It's great to watch a great international tournament, where hockey is played the way it should be.

Elite Scout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2013, 10:12 AM
  #318
David Thicke
Registered User
 
David Thicke's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Montreal, QC
Country: Canada
Posts: 214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Enforcer View Post
With no fighting you can expect the stick-work to increase and the targeting of the skilled guys. With no accountability for their actions guys like Matt Cooke, Raffi Torres and Patrick Kaleta start targeting the Crosby's and Stamko's of the league.

I saw a person be carried away on a stretcher once after he slipped on the ice while skating. Maybe we should just eliminate skating and hockey all together? I know, let's make the whole world padded so there can never be an injury to anyone at work again. Fighting is a wonderfully entertaining and intense part of hockey, and Parros makes a GREAT living doing it. He probably wouldn't even be wealthy if there wasn't fighting in the sport. I'm getting really annoyed at how soft and sensitive people and society is becoming.

We have this discussion too much. Fighting is part of the game. Deal with it. Case closed...
I get your point and agree that the rats will only get worse and run the game if not held accountable but it's up to the referees to apply the rules of the game properly. Enforcers don't police the game like in the past. You can ban fighting but it will still happen in a physical game like hockey. It's just the staged fights and the fights off the face-off that are stupid. They aren't about two players angry with each other or a cheapshot. The fighting after a clean hit is just as stupid and in the old days you just took his number and waited the hit him back just as hard.

Your example of George Parros is a really bad one. He graduated with a 3.98 GPA from Princeton University and is considered one of the smartest hockey players in the NHL so he would probably be doing just as well in the business world. Princeton grads have a lot of doors opened to them especially ones with such a high GPA.

David Thicke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2013, 01:03 PM
  #319
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
The season Crosby got hurt, the Penguins lead the league in fights. Rupp, Asham, and Engelland were every-night players. Godard played about half the games he wasn't on IR (broken hand and broken orbital). Didn't really matter.

While I'm a big believer in fights as disencouraging overly physical play, Crosby hasn't really been a victim of that in his career. Orpik hit him with a slapshot, Steckel's an uncoordinated, tunnel-visioned clod (who once made a near identical "hit" on Backstrom during a linechange...they were teammates) and Hedman (who is possibly the softest player in the league) made a hit that wasn't particularly juicy and likely would have done bupkiss without the Steckel collision.

There was some early stuff with Hatcher, but that ended when Hatcher was like a minus 5 one game and Stevens(? might have been Hitchcock) started actively avoiding that matchup.

I guess Crosby was punched by Chara in this year's playoffs, but I don't know what you're suggesting should have been done about that. If MacIntyre would have been dressed and sent for retribution, the refs would have just chucked him on a phantom misconduct before he could have done anything.

I know this because the referees did exactly that to save Chris Neil (who had some beef with Brooks Orpik) from MacIntyre earlier in the season. If they won't let MacIntyre get at the likes of Neil, they surely wouldn't have let him get at a Norris winner.
Not the major injuries at all. I know some people complained about the Steckel hit being subtly intentional but I don't. I'm thinking more about the little things over the years. Getting goaded into the scrums, the crap that happened in the Philly series in 2012. Stuff like that. There are times when I often thought a tough guy taking someone aside (a Hartnell for instance) and straightening him up would have made a difference and let Crosby focus on hockey more.

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-07-2013, 01:10 PM
  #320
struckbyaparkedcar
Zemgus Da Gawd
 
struckbyaparkedcar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Upstate NY
Country: Cote DIvoire
Posts: 11,568
vCash: 500
Kaleta has been injured on like eight separate occasions by hits far dirtier than anything he's dished out. I really wish people would stop bringing him up in the same sentence as Cooke.

struckbyaparkedcar is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2013, 08:20 AM
  #321
Dom - OHL
http://ohlwriters.co
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,916
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dom - OHL
Take the OHL route. Fighting is down with their new rule but not as much as you would think. The benefit: good clean hard hits are up because players know there is less chance that they'll have to drop the gloves afterwards

http://ohlwriters.com/articles/ohl-s...one-year-later

Dom - OHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2013, 10:15 AM
  #322
beenhereandthere
Registered User
 
beenhereandthere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Evergray State
Posts: 653
vCash: 500
I would not be against doing one of these two things,

Banning it on a trial basis, like for.a whole season and then revisiting it the next season, or a trial in the pre seaso or in the AHL for 1 season.

Or allowing only 1 fight per game, instead of 2 per player.

Furthermore, I'm not buying the enforcers protecting the stars argument anymore, I haven't seen that since Gino Odjick, skated on the same line with Bure and scored 30 goals, thanks to that. 90% of the time, enforcers only fight each other, even after dirty plays on a skilled player.


Last edited by beenhereandthere: 10-10-2013 at 12:15 PM.
beenhereandthere is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-10-2013, 04:33 PM
  #323
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,210
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by beenhereandthere View Post
I would not be against doing one of these two things,

Banning it on a trial basis, like for.a whole season and then revisiting it the next season, or a trial in the pre seaso or in the AHL for 1 season.

Or allowing only 1 fight per game, instead of 2 per player.

Furthermore, I'm not buying the enforcers protecting the stars argument anymore, I haven't seen that since Gino Odjick, skated on the same line with Bure and scored 30 goals, thanks to that. 90% of the time, enforcers only fight each other, even after dirty plays on a skilled player.
That rule would never work on a trial basis. And one fight per game is another thing that can't fly. There could be two guys that drop the gloves early in the game and there would be no fear of a fight afterwards.

As for enforcers fighting each other, yes that happens, but it also happens for a reason. Sometimes it is to set a tone, settle the game down, or like in a million times they are sending a message to the player to leave their star alone (Shanahan fighting Breashear for picking on Jagr, which happens all the time)

Big Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2013, 12:17 PM
  #324
Dom - OHL
http://ohlwriters.co
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stratford, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,916
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Dom - OHL
Quote:
“I believe that especially at the pro level you need to be held accountable for your actions, and the threat of a fight can accomplish that,” Orr says in his upcoming book Orr: My Story, according to an excerpt published on The Globe and Mail website. “The truth is, you couldn’t pull the gloves off certain players if a fight was in their future, yet many of those same players in the modern game take liberties with others simply because they can. That is not right, and players should not be allowed to have it both ways. It leads me to the notion of what is commonly referred to as the ‘enforcer.’”

It must be said, though, that Orr isn’t a proponent of fighting in all of its forms. The Hall of Famer is against staged fighting and writes he’d even support a rule limiting the amount of fights per player, with supplemental discipline for anyone who surpasses that limit.
Read more at: http://nesn.com/2013/10/bobby-orr-be...d-accountable/

Dom - OHL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
10-13-2013, 01:06 PM
  #325
Eisen
Registered User
 
Eisen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Eugene
Country: United States
Posts: 7,918
vCash: 500
I just don't get that in a game where I can be boarded, butt-ended, slashed and hit on the open-ice , the prospect of having to fight would deter me from taking liberties.

Eisen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:58 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.